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Superpedestrian (rear) Copenhagen Wheel Review

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Superpedestrian (rear) Copenhagen Wheel Review

Old 07-19-18, 03:58 PM
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FrenchFit 
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Superpedestrian (rear) Copenhagen Wheel Review

I am not going to repeat the basic specs., which you can learn about here: https://www.superpedestrian.com/en
A couple of short hilly rides + one 35 miler with hills w/ 3 hours total elapsed time. On the long ride, I returned with 12% of battery charge capacity remaining on ECO. I was mashing, and there was a headwind and hills. I’d say the majority of the riding time was spent at or above 15 mph, with lots of 18mph cruising (according to their app record). On that bike, with 26 x 2.0 tires, I'd expect to be riding in the 12-14 mph zone without the assist, slower if there was a headwind.

I’m about 6 ft, 190 lbs, riding a heavy hybrid with panniers. I ordered a 26” rim, with 7 speed cog, MTB tire.

Pros: Easy install, like 15 minutes. Connectivity to smartphone has been excellent, but if your phone is Android you need v. 4.3 or above. Riding is the most natural thing I can imagine, with bionic legs … as their marketing suggests. Headwinds, long grades, maintaining 18 mph…forgetaboutit. Quiet, very natural feel, plenty of acceleration boost when you mash down. Doesn’t much change the handling characteristics of the bike, at least this hybrid. Battery regenerates (slightly) if you back pedal on decents. No throttle, cables, battery or other crap..as you’d expect with the Copenhagen Wheel design.

Cons: Expensive ($1500). 2 weeks for delivery. Battery takes 3+ hours to charge, charger is a big brick. Cheap rim strip under the tube. What you don’t realize until your see the installation it is a flat tire while riding will be a real bummer, you’ll need a 15mm wrench and screwdriver to get the rear wheel off. Lots of weight on that rear wheel, the tire need to handle it – though the Kenda tire supplied seems adequate. It tops out at 20 mph, which will be disappointing to someone wanting a true e-bike – and no throttle of course. Your rig will be heavy.

Overall Impression: For a simple e-assist, I can’t imagine how you could design anything better. Huge fun. I bought this for my wife, but it might see a few afternoons on the rear of my hardtail on the mountain, any trail would be possible ***. Yeah, it could be 10 pounds lighter and $1000 cheaper, but I’m not willing to wait 5 years to see if that future becomes true.

ON YOUR LEFT !


*** But see my mountain test below.

I have no association whatsoever these these companies or their products.

Last edited by FrenchFit; 08-03-18 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 07-19-18, 05:50 PM
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Another positive review of the SP; haven't heard any bad things yet.
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Old 07-19-18, 08:09 PM
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I think some where in the SP app. you can unlock the 20 mph limit and it will go up to 25 or 28 mph. You have to swear on your first born you take responsibility. What speed were you riding into headwinds and up grades?
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Old 07-19-18, 08:53 PM
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Thanks, but not interested. I doubt my wife is going to want to hammer it above 20mph.

You know, not sure what my average speed was uphill when I was really uping the cadence. Maybe 16-17mph, on ECO? I was being gentle, it was the test drive and I didn't want to break it.
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Old 07-20-18, 05:41 AM
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I talked to a couple who were riding them they other day and they too gave it raves. I don't need e-assist yet but have been eyeing them for the future (I'm 70). This could be a good intro on a spare bike. Do you order them with the cassette installed or do you have to order a cassette separately and install yourself?
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Old 07-20-18, 07:55 AM
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Besides road bikes I have a Catrike trike. Compared to road bikes it is slow (at least twice the weight and significantly more tire resistance) and I have difficulty getting my heart rate up. I thinking of getting a CW for the trike. I average 13-13.5 mph on the trike. If I could average 17 with the CW on Eco pedaling hard it would be worth it. I don't need an easier workout. I want a tailwind effect and spin a higher gear at a faster cadence=speed and elevated heart rate. Currently with a strong tail wind I can increase my heart rate by 10 bpm and ride at 80% of max instead of 65-70%.
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Old 07-20-18, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by donheff View Post
I talked to a couple who were riding them they other day and they too gave it raves. I don't need e-assist yet but have been eyeing them for the future (I'm 70). This could be a good intro on a spare bike. Do you order them with the cassette installed or do you have to order a cassette separately and install yourself?
That was pretty slick; on the order page you choose wheels size, tire, and cassette...going up to 10 I believe. Like I said, 15 min. install out of the box, however - I would recommend unmounting the tire and throwing away the rim tape they use, go with something higher quality. Also, they use avg quality Kenda tube, for this application I'd use a thorn resistant tube and maybe a liner...you don't want to be fixing a flat on the road with this rig.
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Old 07-20-18, 10:04 AM
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Maybe Schwalbe Marathon + tires too.
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Old 07-27-18, 04:10 AM
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has anyone tried one of these in the UK, where the speed limit is lower? Is it any good?? I'd love to keep my existing bike but have help up the hills...
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Old 08-03-18, 03:57 PM
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+++++ FAIL +++++ MOUNTAIN TEST


I decided to test its limits, took my wife's heavy hybrid with the WHEEL installed up Mt. Diablo - figure an hour of 6-8% curving grade. I was a happy 10-12 mpg for about 20 minutes, then it just shut itself down. Overheating I guess. I came down,. let it cool, seems to be working fine.

i would say that it's hardly ideal for MTB fire roads, etc. A couple short hills and it'll do it fine but a prolonged pull on a mountain...no. Definitely more of an urban commuter.
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Old 08-03-18, 04:58 PM
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Not surprising with the battery and controller encased in the wheel and, AFAIK, no vents to air cool them. Good to know; thanks for the test results. BTW, my front hub system shut down a couple of times last year while I was ascending pretty steep hills off road, and the battery and controller are "out in the air stream".
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Old 08-03-18, 05:12 PM
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Too bad about the fail on Mt Diablo, but admittedly a tough test. I've seen a few unhappy reviews, from people who already had ebikes and higher expectations. Must be like ice cream for the first time. It's great and then you discover there's other flavors beside vanilla.
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Old 08-05-18, 06:42 PM
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SP will have a price increase to $1750 on August 8th.
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Old 08-12-18, 01:52 AM
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Thanks for posting a real review. The wheel looks cool and I love the fact it can be retrofitted. I tried an expensive electric bike and it didn't feel natural to me, more like I was on an electric motorbike. Very positive that the Copenhagen wheel has integrated pedalling more naturally.
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Old 10-10-18, 06:01 PM
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++++ UPDATE ++++

So it's been about 3 months, riding the wheel each weekend. It has exceeded our expectations. Even on tough hills my spouse is riding right along side me while I'm cranking away in my lowest gear. No drop-out of the phone connect, no surprises, the thing just works flawlessly. We;re not sure, but it seems like the battery life has increased a bit too, like it has gotten more efficient between the riders pedal stroke and power supplied. My wife has become more 'protective' of the wheel, it's definitely hers now.

Unfortunately, the price has gone up and the shipping wait time seems to have increased. I've bought a second one for a distant family member. I can see asking my kids to buy one for me 10 years from now....
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Old 10-12-18, 10:16 AM
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I have no experience of that wheel, but as a user of a big heavy hub, I have had a couple of pinch flats despite 2.35 tyres (one a sharp-edged kerb and another a brick hidden in the grass). But i've been able to patch the tube, so haven't had to remove the wheel (21mm nuts and two torque arms on this!).
Sounds like a fat tyre and big-patch repair kit should be considered for it, and the weight should be less of a concern then.
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Old 11-08-19, 05:34 PM
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Words of caution about the Copenhagen Wheel

I recently bought one of these second hand (NIB). I have mixed feelings about it, but I wanted to leave a few *strong* words of warning about the Copenhagen Wheel to anyone considering buying one.

I'll start by saying that this thing is amazingly fun to use! It's my first ebike so I don't have anything to directly compare it with, but the pedal response is incredible. It feels very natural to ride, and really does just trick you into thinking that you're a lot stronger than you really are. It's made my commute 1000% more fun, and way faster -- when it works.

That gets to negative point #1: The wheel is tethered to a finnicky app. It has happened to me twice now in the past two months that I've been in a rush out the door to work (as usual) and the wheel has refused to connect to my phone. After several reboots and power cycles later I was able to get it going each time, but one of those made me late for a class I was teaching, which is obviously less than ideal. I accept some responsibility since I was cutting it so close with timing, but that was a totally avoidable and unnecessary delay that really frustrated me.

Negative point #1.5: Why in the world do I need to connect my phone to my bike anyway? It avoids the need for bulky wiring and displays and so on, but I don't need the speedometer, and I never change the assist mode mid-ride. In fact, I just put the phone in my pocket while I'm riding. Turning the thing on, and choosing an assist mode could be done with a physical switch. Also, the app requires access to your location or it will not work. It gives you no option to reduce the amount of data that SuperPedestrian collects about you.

Negative point #2: This is apparently not the case on all wheels, but the freewheel on mine is insanely loud when coasting. It sounds like I'm being chased by a gigantic swarm of bees whenever I stop pedaling. People turn from a block away to see what's going on when I'm coasting down hill. On any other bike it should be possible to replace that component, but as superpedestrian's customer service rep tells me, that is part of the "internal robotics" and cannot be serviced unless it's actually broken and under warranty, in which case I could mail the whole thing across the country and they might fix it there.

Which brings me to negative point #3 (the really big negative, that ought to make you think hard before buying one of these): You cannot service this wheel.
  • If it is within warranty (<3yrs) and is defective SuperPedestrian might fix it. Whether they would cover shipping and so on is another question. In any case you'll be without it for at least a couple weeks during this process.
  • If it is outside of warranty they will not touch it. Their service reps are perfectly polite, but they will only tell you something like "this wheel is not in our warranty window, so unfortunately it is not eligible for repair service." -- Fair, after all they can't be expected to warranty it forever. BUT: They will not provide *ANY* resources for 3rd party repairs or even paid in-house repairs that aren't warranty claims. No spare parts, no documentation on the components or service manuals-- nothing. This means that unless you've got good reverse engineering skills, and can fabricate replacements for all these proprietary parts or buy a donor wheel to cannibalize for parts, your only option for continued operation is to trash the wheel and buy a new one- no matter how trivial the problem is.
Superpedestrian's business model is similar to Apple in several ways: Their product is high quality out of the box, but requires unnecessary auxiliary parts that can limit its functionality (this finicky app in SP's case), it surreptitiously collects your location data for no good reason without any way to impose limits, and if it ever needs service you are completely at the company's mercy for repairs. At least Apple has a network of repair technicians who will fix your computer for a fee. If your Copenhagen Wheel needs any service whatsoever outside of its warranty window you are 100% on your own.

So as much fun as this wheel is, I am regrettably going to have to sell it and go the standard ebike route. Even if I could somehow afford to just toss my ebike every three years and buy a new one, I cannot support that kind of throw-away consumerism. I think Superpedestrian intends to market to tech yuppies who are looking for a toy to show off with their hipster friends a few times. If you want something that you can be sure will last, this product is definitely not for you.

It's hard to find negative reviews about this product, even years after its initial release. Part of that is its continued relative obscurity, part of it is good marketing, and part of it is that the wheel really is well built and genuinely high quality. But I think a big part of it is that the first generation of wheels is only now falling out of warranty. I expect I won't be the last person to have similar complaints, and I hope I can prevent at least one person from finding themselves in that trap.
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Old 11-11-19, 01:45 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by rock_hopper View Post
Superpedestrian's business model is similar to Apple in several ways:.
I think you analogy is right on in several respects. Probably why my spouse likes hers so much; turn it on, bring up the app, start riding, charge at the end of the day. Badda bing....

Sorry you had problems with the wheel you found. Ours isn't noisy, drop-outs don't happen. But yes, I agree if there is a maintenance issue then we are fairly screwed.

On the other hand, I've had two e-bike kits previously, and I can't say those were problem free for us - and the rider experience was definitely inferior. And, we occasionally ride with someone who invest $5K in a slick german e-bike, it died after a year and she waited months to get a replacement - right before the company folded.

Seems to me that unless you want to lay the money down on the newest options from Trek/Specialized you will taking some risks, or internalizing some nuisances.
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Old 11-13-19, 09:47 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
Definitely more of an urban commuter.
True. It's been interesting to see SP's business model evolve to partner with Public, Marin, and Montague, and offer the Copenhagen wheel as a conversion for commuting bikes. It's a neat solution for folding bikes as it eliminates common issues about mounting the battery and routing the wiring. As it's just gotten cold here in DC another bonus of using it on a folding bike would be the ability to bring it indoors to charge in the warmth.

Last edited by Dewey101; 11-13-19 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 11-13-19, 10:25 AM
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The all-in-one part concerns me. Just like I don't buy all-in-one electronics because if one thing goes out the rest is pretty useless. If a standard kit has a battery or controller go out, you can replace them possibly. With SP you have the issue of getting proprietary parts AND getting it serviced. There's something in my head that rebels against the idea of "disposable" electric bike motors, when one of the advantages is the environmental benefit. I love the concept but it should be modular, with an easy to unlock outer shell, and replaceable components. Otherwise, it's just going in the landfill eventually.
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Old 11-20-19, 05:58 AM
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I circled around the Copenhagen wheel before settling on a Juiced CCX. The test ride of the Copenhagen wheel was amazing, but the forced app use, limited post warranty support and high price tag they can't seem to get away from was a deal breaker. I'd be fine if they charged for an extended warranty or had clearly stated post warranty fees. In the end with electric bikes, like with other electronics you are left with this feeling that if you make the wrong decision you'll be left with a exotic non functioning ode to the past.
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Old 11-20-19, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by P10pablo View Post
I circled around the Copenhagen wheel before settling on a Juiced CCX. The test ride of the Copenhagen wheel was amazing, but the forced app use, limited post warranty support and high price tag they can't seem to get away from was a deal breaker. I'd be fine if they charged for an extended warranty or had clearly stated post warranty fees. In the end with electric bikes, like with other electronics you are left with this feeling that if you make the wrong decision you'll be left with a exotic non functioning ode to the past.
One positive for DIY is the ability to repair,/modify and IMO there are others. This doesn't mean that OEM's don't have positive aspects (I own one of those too).
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Old 11-20-19, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 2old View Post
One positive for DIY is the ability to repair,/modify and IMO there are others. This doesn't mean that OEM's don't have positive aspects (I own one of those too).
I agree about building your own. If I may ask, what did you build and what did you buy? And how long have you had them?

The OEM's seem to be in two camps, one group builds mostly off the shelf, and if they're at scale they'll sometimes get something custom specc'd like a motor, that can still be swapped out with the original motor they're derived from. And then you have the OEM's who just make these nearly un serviceable bikes and that is a bummer.

The worst part is that I still really like the Superpedestrian. Despite the shortcomings, the Superpedestrian really does fit a niche and outside of the Electron wheel, which is really in another class (cheaper, less powerful), but even easier to install, there is nothing out there that will so immediately change your range and ability, but still let you ride the bike you love.
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Old 11-20-19, 05:56 PM
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Front hub system five years ago (now on daughter's bike); BBS02 hardtail four years ago; 1000w, 48V rear hub four years ago (used for errands) BBS 02 for wife two years ago; few others for friends or because I was bored.
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Old 11-21-19, 05:47 AM
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I scoffed at front hub systems till I rode one and then I realized I convinced myself to buy one ebike to rule them all, but really i'd have been fine with a class 1, with much less range. I really bought an automotive replacement, which has been how i've used my e-bike. I think I want to retrofit one of my existing bikes now, with something just to augment my leisure riding.
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