Originally Posted by BigAura (Post 21030313)

No particular amount of force is read nor required for this triggering to occur

Originally Posted by BigAura (Post 21030422)

Please explain what you mean as relates to the requirement that Class 1 eBikes must have a torque sensor.

Originally Posted by Biker395 (Post 21030424)

That is not true. Bicycles are not only not considered to be motor vehicles, they are not even considered to be vehicles.

Bicycles are exclusively human powered: Law section

Bicycles are not "vehicles": https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...0.&lawCode=VEH

It's a common misconception though, as we ARE subject to the most of the same laws and have the same responsibilities.

E-bikes are defined as "electric bicycles" (and not bicycles, as they are not exclusively human powered) and fall into 3 classes: Law section

Originally Posted by linberl (Post 21030510)

ARTICLE 4. Operation of Bicycles [21200 - 21213]

( Article 4 added by Stats. 1963, Ch. 479. )

21200.

(a) (1) A person riding a bicycle or operating a pedicab upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division, including, but not limited to, provisions concerning driving under the influence of alcoholic beverages or drugs, and by Division 10 (commencing with Section 20000), Section 27400, Division 16.7 (commencing with Section 39000), Division 17 (commencing with Section 40000.1), and Division 18 (commencing with Section 42000), except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.

(2) A person operating a bicycle on a Class I bikeway, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 890.4 of the Streets and Highways Code, has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle pursuant to Section 20001, except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.

Originally Posted by fuzzy chainring (Post 21030577)

Fun physics fact: You do apply force when you ride your bike without a motor.

Originally Posted by Biker395 (Post 21030538)

Yep. As I indicated, we have all the rights and responsibilities. But a bicycle is not a vehicle under the CVC. It is important, as there are laws in the CVC that do not apply to bicycles to because they are not vehicles.

This one for example:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...tionNum=21656.

As a bicycle is not a vehicle, we are not required to pull over with 5 more more vehicles are behind us.

Originally Posted by BigAura (Post 21030512)

Thanks for your input and conformation of my main point.




I was explaining the common simple cadence sensor in refrence to linberl's post. I was just pointing to linberl's torque sensor comments as a red-herring.

Originally Posted by BobG (Post 21030487)

Unless you have a torque sensor instead of a cadence sensor. My BionX assist is a rear hub drive. Its torque sensor inside the hub senses the amount of tug on the chain. Pedaling speed has nothing to do with it. If I put it in a big gear and push hard the torque sensor tells the motor to push hard and I get a big return for the increased effort. If I shift into a lower gear and spin faster and more lightly the motor backs off .

I do agree with BigAura on one point. There is really no difference between a thumb throttle and a pedal assist. If I want to take off fast with the flow of traffic when the light changes I just put it in level 4 assist and step on the gas pedal. The bike shoots ahead (as if it had a motor) :innocent: the same as it would by pressing a thumb switch. Two different switch designs that do the same thing.

All of my riding now is on paved roads or gravel roads open to motor vehicles so I'm not going to join the above debate. I don't like riding on MUPs anyway. The nearest one is 22 miles away and doesn't go anywhere.



Who said that??? An ebike has either a cadence sensor or a torque sensor, not both. Most have a cadence sensor because they're cheaper.

Originally Posted by linberl (Post 21030596)

How is a torque sensor a red herring? Most quality e-bikes have them.

Originally Posted by linberl (Post 21030394)

Torque sensors actually measure input force.
Have you ever actually ridden an electric bike with a torque sensor? If not, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by BigAura (Post 21030610)

Yep, because I was explaining a cadence sensor. Which is used on the majority of eBikes.Then you decided to say:

Originally Posted by linberl (Post 21030594)

Semantics. Ride on the road and tell a cop you aren't subject to the vehicle code, lol. Where you ride matters more than what you ride.

Originally Posted by fuzzy chainring (Post 21030810)

So when you're about to be hit by a car you install your optional throttle. That makes perfect sense.

"It also has a throttle (which I don't use unless I'm about to be hit by a car) and it kicks in instantly"

Originally Posted by Biker395 (Post 21030424)

That is not true. Bicycles are not only not considered to be motor vehicles, they are not even considered to be vehicles.

Bicycles are exclusively human powered: Law section

Bicycles are not "vehicles": https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...0.&lawCode=VEH

It's a common misconception though, as we ARE subject to the most of the same laws and have the same responsibilities.

E-bikes are defined as "electric bicycles" (and not bicycles, as they are not exclusively human powered) and fall into 3 classes: Law section

Originally Posted by fuzzy chainring (Post 21030870)

Nope, you got that wrong too. My concern about access is land managers lumping electric motor bicycles in with normal bikes when making access decisions - because electric motor bicycles can be indistinguishable from real bikes.

I think NEMBA has taken a balanced approach:

https://www.nemba.org/news/dealers-g...mountain-bikes



Except for that motor. Having ridden a few, they don't ride just like regular bikes.

Originally Posted by fuzzy chainring (Post 21030959)

I never claimed to be an expert nor did I make a any grand generalization. That’s just you making things up. Again.

My experience is that the electric motor bicycles that I rode did not ride like normal bikes. They made challenging climbs very easy while being porky and not as agile, nor as fun, on the descents.

Again, that’s not a generalization, just specific observations based on my real world experience.

Originally Posted by KraneXL (Post 21030883)

A semantic argument which does not alter the rule of law when riding on the road.

Originally Posted by Biker395 (Post 21031026)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

The CVC is a statute. Its words are not semantics ... they define what the rule of law is when riding on the road.

Originally Posted by KraneXL (Post 21031132)

What I mean is even if you determine a cyclist is not defined as vehicle or consider him a slow boat to China it does not change his rights and privileges and responsibilities.

Originally Posted by Biker395 (Post 21031540)

But it DOES. In my example, someone piloting a vehicle must pull over if there are more than 5 vehicles behind them and those vehicles are unable to pass. The law does not require a bicycle to do that, because they are not legally defined as vehicles. There are other places in the vehicle code where the distinction is important.

Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21034864)

In my experience and locale, legality is irrelevant. Motor bikes (electric and gas) with pedals are used on bike paths and in bike lanes and when I cornered a couple of law enforcement officers about that (one of whom is a cyclist), they informed me that they were given no directives, aside from stop sign infractions, to enforce the relevant laws. What is relevant is that with no experience riding at high speed, someone can use their Master Card and leave the store on a motorbike, get on a bike path, push a lever, and speed amongst, walkers, kids on training wheels, etc.