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Hub or crank motor?

Old 07-09-19, 01:56 PM
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billyinfs
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Hub or crank motor?

I like ebikes but not sure what kind I want to get. whats the difference between a wheel hub motor and a crank motor? is one better than the other?
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Old 07-09-19, 03:37 PM
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Check this page: https://electricbikereport.com/elect...or-comparison/
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Old 07-09-19, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by billyinfs View Post
I like ebikes but not sure what kind I want to get. whats the difference between a wheel hub motor and a crank motor? is one better than the other?
Most of the cheap internet order bikes are hub drive. The quality varies. Some hub motor bikes are very expensive too.
I think the lower end, lighter mid-drive bikes feel the most like a traditional bike. Best way to see for yourself is to go to many bike shops and test ride.

I prefer a light bike that is easy to pedal without electricity (just in case the battery runs flat)

You will also encounter ebike classes (I, II, & III)
Read up 😊
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Old 07-09-19, 03:57 PM
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I like ebikes but not sure what kind I want to get. whats the difference between a wheel hub motor and a crank motor? is one better than the other?
Are you looking into purchasing an ebike or are you looking into an ebike kit. Do you want an assist or a throttle type. A good site for ebike kits and allot of educational info.

A geared hub motor with regenitive braking.
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Old 07-09-19, 05:39 PM
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Ebikes

Originally Posted by restlessswind View Post
Most of the cheap internet order bikes are hub drive. The quality varies. Some hub motor bikes are very expensive too.
I think the lower end, lighter mid-drive bikes feel the most like a traditional bike. Best way to see for yourself is to go to many bike shops and test ride.

I prefer a light bike that is easy to pedal without electricity (just in case the battery runs flat)

You will also encounter ebike classes (I, II, & III)
Read up 😊
Thanks, I’m going to head over to the bike shop and take a few test rides.
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Old 07-09-19, 07:45 PM
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Also read the information on ebikesca about the differences.
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Old 07-10-19, 09:05 AM
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Yeah, test ride some and buy what you like.

A small hub motor can be quiet and unobtrusive and maintenance free
Mid drives are great for hills and obviously put more wear on the drive-train.

Personally, I don't shift at all, so a hub works great, is lighter, and less expensive. But if you are doing significant climbing, gears are great.
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Old 07-10-19, 01:22 PM
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Last summer I bought a cheap 500 Watt 48 volt rear hub (BAFANG) generic internet bike. (class II) I had the opportunity to see one in person, and test ride. I thought it was a great deal. It looked nice and rode decent....only $1100.
Fast forward to 500 miles and the spokes on the hub wheel keep breaking. The support I received was new spokes shipped in the mail. The issue wasn't the spokes, but the lacing of the wheel. After some careful inspection and trying to tighten up the tension, I realized the hub was not 100% symmetrical, and the spokes were all the same size. I could not get one side to tension properly. Also, the final high gearing was not enough to keep up with the motor assist. I bought a better suited freewheel to solve that issue. The brakes were not strong enough, and I ended up having a collision on a MUP. Also, the handling characteristics were a bit off. I could easily lose control on a turn over 8-10mph. I also noticed with the heavy hub wheel, large screws and such easily penetrated the tire. Dealing with flats on a heavy hub wheel is far from pleasant. A wrench for18mm axle nuts, and snippers to cut a zip tie for the axle wire were added to the roadside toolkit. I also had to lug the 10 lb battery and large charger to the office to recharge before riding home. The range was not as stated. I got less than 25 miles per cycle. Without power, it was a tank to pedal.I gave up on said bike and sold it cheap.

For my needs, I ended up with a $2100 name brand mid-drive 250W 36V Class I bike. It's still not perfect, but I need reliability and range over performance. I commute nearly 40 miles RT. It's only 43 lbs and rides nearly identical to a traditional bike. I can get the 40 miles I need without recharging the battery too. But with the motor off, it's not the worst thing to pedal, even up hill.
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Old 07-10-19, 03:14 PM
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Yup, I would say that is pretty realistic. Good description.
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Old 07-10-19, 03:50 PM
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Last summer I bought a cheap 500 Watt 48 volt rear hub (BAFANG) generic internet bike. (class II) I had the opportunity to see one in person, and test ride. I thought it was a great deal. It looked nice and rode decent....only $1100.
Throttle only no pedal assist. What motor winding did you get.

Fast forward to 500 miles and the spokes on the hub wheel keep breaking. The support I received was new spokes shipped in the mail. The issue wasn't the spokes, but the lacing of the wheel. After some careful inspection and trying to tighten up the tension, I realized the hub was not 100% symmetrical, and the spokes were all the same size. I could not get one side to tension properly. Also, the final high gearing was not enough to keep up with the motor assist. I bought a better suited freewheel to solve that issue. The brakes were not strong enough, and I ended up having a collision on a MUP. Also, the handling
The place you ordered your kit from used the cheapest version of that Bafang motor. The only way to keep up with the motor would have been to use an advanced pedal assist. in other words a bb torque sensor. You would also of needed a controller designed to handle a torque sensor. This would have worked
This also would have worked.

Both of these Bafang motors are of much higher quality than what you purchased. You will notice the power cable comes out to the side instead of straight out the axle. They both use a standard round axle and are disk compatible. Grinn and another company have worked with Bafang for several years on these improvements. I am considering the 20" version of the front hub motor for my touring bicycle.

What bb motor did you put on your bicycle.

Last edited by Rick; 07-10-19 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 07-10-19, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Throttle only no pedal assist. What motor winding did you get.



The place you ordered your kit from used the cheapest version of that Bafang motor. The only way to keep up with the motor would have been to use an advanced pedal assist. in other words a bb torque sensor. You would also of needed a controller designed to handle a torque sensor. This would have worked
This also would have worked.

Both of these Bafang motors are of much higher quality than what you purchased. You will notice the power cable comes out to the side instead of straight out the axle. They both use a standard round axle and and are disk compatible. Grinn and another company have worked with Bafang for several years on these improvements. I am considering the 20" version of the front hub motor for my touring bicycle.

What bb motor did you put on your bicycle.
It was thumb throttle and single magnet cadence sensor. advertised at 25 mph, but never got over 23. I'm unsure of the tech specs of the motor (ie. windings)
I ordered a bike, not a kit.

The new bike came with a Bosch Active Line motor. ( I did not build it.)
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Old 07-10-19, 06:39 PM
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I've been happy with a very effective and reliable hub motor on mine for six years. Now, I'm waiting for a third category of motors on significantly lighter e-bikes.
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Old 07-10-19, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind View Post
For my needs, I ended up with a $2100 name brand mid-drive 250W 36V Class I bike. It's still not perfect, but I need reliability and range over performance. I commute nearly 40 miles RT. It's only 43 lbs and rides nearly identical to a traditional bike. I can get the 40 miles I need without recharging the battery too. But with the motor off, it's not the worst thing to pedal, even up hill.
What bike did you end up with?
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Old 07-10-19, 06:48 PM
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The new bike came with a Bosch Active Line motor. ( I did not build it.)
Yes Bosch only sells there motors to OEMs. They recently opened a motor plant in California. The price you quote for the Bosch ebike is really low. Is it a used bicycle. I believe they offer a 2 year warranty on there motors. After the 2 year warranty is up you should be able to purchase a rebuild kit.
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Old 07-10-19, 08:18 PM
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Tr

Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
What bike did you end up with?
Trek Verve+
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Old 07-10-19, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Yes Bosch only sells there motors to OEMs. They recently opened a motor plant in California. The price you quote for the Bosch ebike is really low. Is it a used bicycle. I believe they offer a 2 year warranty on there motors. After the 2 year warranty is up you should be able to purchase a rebuild kit.
I bought it new last week. It's on clearance
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Old 07-11-19, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by BiciMan View Post
I've been happy with a very effective and reliable hub motor on mine for six years. Now, I'm waiting for a third category of motors on significantly lighter e-bikes.
What is this third Category? Friction drives on road bikes???

Yup, hub motors work great around Ann Arbor.
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Old 07-11-19, 08:25 AM
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At this point, I have gone through three types of motors, a geared hub motor, a BaFeng, and a TongSheng. They all have different benefits.

The hub motor was on a commuter. It was on the front wheel and was relatively low power and throttle controlled. I liked it on snow and ice (with studded tyres). I was able to carefully give power to it to match my pedal input and have, what was effetively, two-wheel drive.

The BaFeng was on a touring trike. I used the internal cadence detection on it. It had plenty of power; however, as it required a full revolution to get started, it was very hard to start on hills. However, being able to put all that power through the gears was a strong benefit when crawling up steep grades. I had it paired to a Nuvinci N380 which was ideal for that type of motor. I was able to use the transmission to trim power consumption in order to maintain the charge in the batteries from the solar panels.

The TongSheng is on my current commuter. It has a torque sensor that provides the best "normal-bike" (also known as a push-bike). However, it seems a bit fiddly. It frequently throws error codes and right now it is sitting unused. My daughter has it and she says it isn't working. I am convinced that, when I get back to her, I will probably find that it is either now working, or that it is a connector issue.

I am sold on Mid-Drive. It just feels more natural when riding it. I don't think I will get another hub-drive. That being said, both the BaFeng and the TongSheng kits are not great choices for someone who is not able to tinker. I am probably going to go with the manufacturer built one at bikes direct soon.
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Old 07-22-19, 11:30 AM
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Last tour... 2014
Sorry to hear your complaints.....my experience was the total opposite, in 2010 I had a Crystylte 500w hub motor installed into a 16"wheel that I installed on my BOB trailer, rode with the E-BOB when I toured, took it off in 2015. This pusher trailer needed some getting used to but worked well when it worked...
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Old 08-02-19, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
What is this third Category? Friction drives on road bikes???

Yup, hub motors work great around Ann Arbor.
Indeed, chas! Bing for Fazua Evation, inter alia. I've only seen European availability to date. This may not be it, or not the only option, but it's the only meaningful improvement that I've seen since my 2013 purchase, and the little I've heard or read on pricing was encouraging. I really like my aluminum 50-lb BH NeoXtrem; it fits, looks, and works great. BUT, what I require to step/pay up is a drop of at least 20-25 lbs.. THAT would make my electric as much FUN to ride as my manual bikes. Looks will continue to be important to me, and I just do not like the looks of these "latest-and-greatest" mid-drive, still-after-all-these-years~50-lb solutions-NOT. Thanks for asking...
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Old 08-06-19, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by BiciMan View Post
BUT, what I require to step/pay up is a drop of at least 20-25 lbs.. THAT would make my electric as much FUN to ride as my manual bikes. Looks will continue to be important to me, and I just do not like the looks of these "latest-and-greatest" mid-drive, still-after-all-these-years~50-lb solutions-NOT. Thanks for asking...
For what it is worth, I made a 25lb bike (+3.5 lb 350 watt-hour battery) about 6 years ago. Its drop bar with a small hub motor, so it doesn't look like an ebike at all. And at that weight it rides like a regular road bike. Its a ball and a lot different from a 50lb ebike. But the newer versions of friction drive look like they have a lot to offer.

(actually, my 350watt LiFePo4 battery initially weighed 10.5 lbs, which prevented me from using it much on a road bike, but losing that 7lb battery weight made a huge difference.) Don't need a lot of hill climbing cabability in SW michigan...
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Old 08-06-19, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BiciMan View Post
Indeed, chas! Bing for Fazua Evation, inter alia. I've only seen European availability to date. This may not be it, or not the only option, but it's the only meaningful improvement that I've seen since my 2013 purchase, and the little I've heard or read on pricing was encouraging. I really like my aluminum 50-lb BH NeoXtrem; it fits, looks, and works great. BUT, what I require to step/pay up is a drop of at least 20-25 lbs.. THAT would make my electric as much FUN to ride as my manual bikes. Looks will continue to be important to me, and I just do not like the looks of these "latest-and-greatest" mid-drive, still-after-all-these-years~50-lb solutions-NOT. Thanks for asking...
https://contenderbicycles.com/first-...-e-road-bike/#

to quote the marketing blurb...some of it..... 26.5 pounds
We’re no stranger to the Dyodo’s drive unit: the Ebikemotion X35 drive unit, found on the Orbea Gain (review HERE). At the risk of repeating ourselves, we think this is one of the best drive motors on the market today. It’s seriously light, offers assist to 20 mph, 250 W power and 40 Nm torque, and is drag-free when the motor isn’t in use. A 250 Wh battery keeps the power flowing for about 60 miles, depending on how much assist you use. All in, Pinarello claims the entire system weighs in at just 7.7 pounds. An range-extending 250 Wh battery pack will be available at a later date. The complete Dyodo bike weighs only 26.5lbs and offers pedal assistance up to 20mph
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Old 08-25-19, 12:05 AM
  #23  
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-mid drive motors will wear your chains faster;
-mid drive have to be serviced - money to be spent, time spent and technical knowledge are required; are you prepared to DIY or do you know a really good mechanic? even when you do not DIY and you spend money for other people's services... you still have to spend time because they won't come to your home etc.

-DD hubs do not wear your chains at all;
-you only need to replace bearings and should be careful to keep them in dry air as to not allow humidity go into the hubs - every cycle of changing temperature night/day will make the hub absorb new air when temperature drops and if air humidity is high the water will be absorbed by grease until the grease will be saturated with water. the only grease i know that literature explicitly describes as being truly resistant to water is polyurea grease.

if you happen to often expose the bike to the elements, leaving it outside etc., cleaning and fresh lubing your chains often and don't mind servicing more often every components that are vulnerable to corrosion then a mid drive won't have a too much impact for you in terms of spending time and money servicing it.

most DD motor hubs with no reduction gears weigh 6-7kgs and should have polyurea grease in the bearings;
some DD motors have reduction gears and weigh less, ~3kgs; those reduction gears have strong components that resist wear except the oil is contaminated or is not replaced after running in - if that has not happened at the factory.

-google "double planetary gears"
-google "Plastic Nylon Gear For Bafang BBS01" - an example of a constant fast wearing component made of plastic for sake of being more silent, more tolerant to the elements and neglecting in servicing the motor, less weight. if they made it to be made of metal there would be more vibration, more weight, the contaminated oil would be pitting it and would be felt in vibration and noise and therefore the consumer would complain in very short time. but nylon gears wear at a constant fast pace compared to metal gears that could be more resistant if proper oil replacement would be insured and the bike would not be left open to moisture etc.

they sell you stuff in order to cash in your money; salesmen are not engineers and don't really care about your ignorance but rather exploit it. you won't receive technical knowledge before buying nor immediately after that. if chances are you will wake up to your wrong decision 1-2 years later then they can't be blamed for it and then you either have to find someone else to use the system - that fits the profile - or deal with the unfit (to your needs) profile of the system regarding servicing it.

so, if you have lotsa money and you use your bike for kicks and fun then a mid drive would be better. the only exception is a high torque DD hub with (no clutch) reduction gears. a mid drive motor can even break your chain if you use the first chainring with a high-ish cog in the group set that means a high deflection in chain use. unless you are careful to completely avoid rust and change gears to avoid high deflections you are vulnerable to chains being broken. but that would not be the primary reason to avoid mid drive systems.

but... more weight at the end of the bike - more of a motorcycles and less of a bike. additional weight at the bottom bracket is not too much felt in turns. DD hub motors with reduction gears could be ok for that matter, less weight.

if you want a high power bike and you want to fast cruise with no heavy traffic then you should look at 6-7kg motor hubs. reduction geared DD hubs have much less power than the big motor hubs.
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