3alarmer 

...thank you. I even have a bicycle with fenders. Sorry if you're feeling archy, but a long bike ride usually helps.

3alarmer 

...no, I'm pretty secure about my feelings. I'm surprised you haven't noticed.

3alarmer 

...so how does that relate to the original topic heading, Ebike Riders get as much exercise as analog bike riders ? It appears from this that you're saying it's just more fun to go faster, and that going faster without all the work is preferable for you. I see that a lot. If that's want you want to do, why all the "we get just as much exercise" discussion ? Go faster, you have my blessings.

Just own it. That's not too much to ask, is it ?

fly135

It relates to your claim that the motor does the work. Never claimed that an ebike rider gets the same amount or more exercise. It's fairly typical that responses are to previous posts and are not strictly responding to the thread title. That's why you see quotes in the posts. You specifically claimed that you don't see the point in getting an ebike for exercise. That really has nothing to do with the thread title.

The answer to the thread title is a matter of data that isn't readily available and specificity about what's being measured. Simple conjecture would suggest that ebike riders get less exercise. I go on bike rides with non ebike riders and given that I am riding with them I know that I'm working less. They are all road bikes and we are on paved trails. I'm on an 50+ lb eMTB w/ plus sized tires and go off road when I see cool stuff and can still keep up. But overall I'm sure I'm working less.

If the amount of ebikes on the road were much larger then you could assume that perhaps a larger amount of exercise is received by the general population. But conjecture would suggest that the amount of ebikes out there is not nearly that high. If the point of the thread is to highlight that statistically people who get an ebike are more likely to ride it than other bike owners, then you would data to back that up. I believe that is the premise behind this thread. Not to compare an ebike rider specifically against someone who is a bike riding enthusiast. Because the later is likely to be getting more exercise.

What exactly am I not owning that you expect? If we were sticking to the original thread topic then I find it difficult to see how there is disagreement. It's pretty clear cut under the same conditions an ebike rider will get less exercise. If it's a general population question, then data would be required to establish any definitive claims.

3alarmer 

...it's pretty hard to determine how much exercise e-bike owners as a demographic are getting. For all I know most of them might be riding over to the gym where they do 2 hour aerobic class workouts followed by another hour and a half in the weight room. Thank you for acknowledging the idea that the title of this thread, and the article upon which it is based, appear to be one of those statements so often seen today. Things that imply one thing, but in reality reference something completely different.

Somewhere out there is an e-bike rider who is in much better shape and has more regular exercise in his routine than do I. But he's probably not that way because he owns and rides an e-bike. That's just a surmise on my part.

3alarmer 

...in general, the study as it was performed is invalid when applied to the American model as I see it demonstrated daily in the state capital of California. Plenty of people cruising along at speed with minimal effort. Which seems to be the point for many users. I just try to stay out of the way and give them plenty of distance.

linberl

https://electricbikereport.com/electric-bike-cheating/

Clearly it's how you ride. You CAN get the same exercise.

3alarmer 

.
...yes. the rider in that link seems pretty typical of those I see here.

Robert C

This discussion has fallen into the trap of demanding direct comparisons. That is not the point in saying e-bike riders get more exercise than push-bike riders.

The real comparison is in how people use their bicycles. I think we can safely say most bicycles sit in garages, essentially unused. As an e-bike rider, I am riding every day, getting my heart rate up every day as I commute. No one is going to claim that I would get less exercise if I were to make the same commute, at the same speeds, on a push-bike. However, that is not the comparison.

The comparison is to my "bicyclist" co-worker, at the beginning of the year, he rode the perimeter of the city, about 12miles. He often talks about commuting, he is waiting for the perfect day, when he has plenty of time to get his bike ready and perfect riding conditions to match. So far it hasn't happened. He commutes in an auto. He plans to get at least one more ride in before winter. Great for him, seeing as it is something he wants to do, I hope he fits it in.

However, if the question were, which of the two of us gets more riding exercise, I think the answer is pretty obvious. This is the comparison, not a hypothetical of an e-bike and a push-bike being used on an identical course at identical speeds.

fly135

No sure how fit I am compared to you, but I do get my regular exercise elsewhere. I started biking because I tried an eBike and was hooked. So the exercise I get from biking is because of the ebike. I have a street ebike that will go 24mpg with little effort, but can be adjusted to require more effort. And I have a eMTB that adds to your input via a torque sensor so you can adjust the amplification of your own effort. That's the bike I prefer to ride because I hit any kind of terrain at any time.

This is my real sport. I'm 63 and it suits me perfectly for all the exercise I need. And pedaling a bike is excellent crossfit for healing up the tweaked knees that occur every now and then.

3alarmer 

...I think we can safely say that you just made a number of statements that are based on your own impressions and an anecdotal sampling of one. I think we can also safely say that the manner of propulsion of a two wheeled vehicle has no direct relationship to how often it gets used by its owner.

Again, I am happy for you that you have discovered something you enjoy doing. Please be more considerate of the feelings of those of us who do, indeed, regularly ride bicycles some distance (30 miles is a regular ride for me, maybe two or three times weekly,) that have no auxiliary motors. The only reason my bicycles sit in the garage is because I can only ride one at a time...and I know plenty of people similar in habits and circumstances.

I realize this is the e-bike forum, so you expect a certain amount of rah rah camaraderie. But you guys are entertaining as hell in your fandom.

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say that all bicycles, regardless of propulsion, get ridden more in the first few years of ownership. That's just human nature. E-bikes are a relatively recent phenomenon, are being marketed aggressively, and it remains to be seen how many of the ones bought this year will still be on the road in five or six years, once people get tired of paying to repair them. But there ought to be some bargains in five or ten years.... on e-bikes that are no longer ridden / cost more to repair than it was worth to the owner / wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be riding in the rain.


EDIT: BTW, I commuted daily for many years by bicycle. Plenty of people do, maybe just not your friend.

3alarmer 

...why do all you water ski / wake board guys have little skinny bird legs ? I had a friend in the fire department, same thing. We used to ski downhill together, and he was better at it than me, but he had skinny little legs like a chicken.

fly135

5-8 and 140 lbs, so I'm pretty skinny all over.

linberl

I got my first e-bike (a dedicated e-bike) 7 years ago after not having been on a bike in 4 decades. I chose it because I was concerned about being stranded on a regular bike as a beginning rider. A year and half later I sold it to another "new" rider and I rode analog for the next 5 years. I had different bikes and learned to build and restore, and do all my own wrenching as part of the process. Now I have a small motor kit I can pop on and off in 5 seconds - still using the same analog bikes but taking into account the damage from osteoarthritis in one knee, the pain which can deter riding, and trying to not do additional damage. So when I use my bike as my car (I sold my car and went bike only a year ago) and my trailer, I use the motor. And when I ride hilly rides, I use the motor. On terrain where I can spin, it's not turned on but if I need to push I use the motor. There's 9 assist levels at I ride at level 1 (for now that's all I need to ease my knee). It might get worse and need more later, who knows. But e-bikes have been around for quite a while and people are still riding them. Well designed ones don't need much in the way of repair. I think it's absurd how "judgey" some bike riders are - what's it to you if someone else rides a motorized bike? It doesn't impact your ride. The analog riders I know don't care what others ride - they're too busy enjoying their own rides. And they appreciate that others want to get places without driving a car. How much exercise someone else gets isn't your business.

3alarmer 

...I'm happy you can do your own repairs. It will serve you well in the future. All bicycles require repair....they share that characteristic with every other machine in regular use by man. I would suggest to you that you're not typical in this capacity. So good on you for that.

You should go back and read everything I've contributed to this thread. This thread has been a lot like talking to people who have found Jesus. Judge not lest ye be judged.

linberl

And yet you are judging e-bike riders. Why would anyone who does not ride or is not interested in riding an ebike even read a thread about it? I don't read the competition threads, just not relevant to me. There are just some analog riders who feel the need to express their superiority (in their minds) over e-bikers. Why are you even in this thread? It just feels like you are trolling...

3alarmer 

.
...just to be clear, I'm not here to troll you guys. I'm genuinely fascinated by the e-bike phenomenon (even though it's doubtful I'll ever actually own one ...I have test ridden one over at the Spesh dealership). I get a regular news feed on all the latest reviews of them (via Google News), Here is one typical of what I've been reading over the past year or two:


Can This E-Bike Replace A Car?

3alarmer 

....I really hate to generalize. but I will do so in this one case. As a demographic, e-bike riders in the majority seem much more interested in going fast on a "bicycle" than in exercise per se. Were you not using the same bike lanes, streets, and MUP's as me, I would have little more than a passing interest in the topic. But you do use those same facilities, and in many cases (personal observation over several years), the e-bike riders I encounter here in my city have neither the experience, judgement, or handling skills to ride a "bicycle" to safely ride those vehicles in the presence of both cars and me as an "analog" bicycle rider. So yes, after a few incidents of idiocy, I give them a wide berth. And yes, that does involve some judgement.

20 mph is pretty fast on a bike, and anyone who achieves it instantly by simply buying that capacity without some prior experience working up to it is dangerous on the road.

If the trade off is getting more people out of cars, I'm willing to go along for the experimental ride. But missionary zeal for e-bikes as you have expressed it here is unlikely to convince me that I am mistaken. Take care of yourself. I'm sorry about your knee. I have one that was surgically repaired, but I'm fortunate in that cycling on a regular bike seems to help mine.

linberl

I'd bet that the % of ebike riders who go 20mph right out of the gate are few. Many less expensive ebikes only go 15mph tops and that eats the battery quickly. Pedal assist ebikes are the way to go, imo, and spinning a pedal assist ebike up to 20mph is going to require rider effort so I doubt those newbies are hitting that speed with assist, either. There are some people who make their own ebikes or buy supercharged ones to go as fast as they can - probably same folks who buy sportscars - typically older guys in mid-life crisis, lol. Imo the way to handle it is to have speed limits (regardless of the type of bike) like we do where I live - 15mph on pathways and protected areas and combined use areas. On the street in bike lanes, that's unnecessary. When I ride with my adult son, he pedals at 20-24mph analog, and I can barely keep up using my motor. I'm often passed in the bike lane by analog riders doing a better job of keeping up with traffic than I can. Just like some drivers go too slow and some too fast....

3alarmer 

...no one enforces bicycle speed limits. No one.

linberl

People have gotten tickets where I live, not just for failing to stop, but also for speeding on bike paths. It's easy money for the cops I think. So usually once a month they hang out and tag cyclists on the main commuter track.

burnthesheep

I was just on the Trek website looking at the road bike commuter e-bike.

350w assistance up to 28mph. Advertised as an advanced commuter.

We're not talking the same equipment any longer whatsoever.

For anyone under P/1/2 category racers, 350w is an eye watering amount of power to put out for most any amount of time. I do race, and 350w I have done a touch over for about 5 minutes. I may hit 8 minutes by the end of the year. It's a ridiculous amount of power on the bike, analog or otherwise.

I don't think the average joe who hasn't grown from producing 180w, then 200, then 240 for a while, then 300, and such over time can appreciate how to properly use that around other road and trail users. When you grow from being weaker, you learn how the bike handles. More importantly how you ride around other people with that power.

Much less 28mph. That's a speed most B group rides around here don't even reach downhill because they'll brake going down.

I dunno, feels like the topic is getting way way way beyond being able to effectively compare the two. It's not even comparing a fruit to a fruit any longer. More like steak and eggs now. Maybe good together. Both good on their own. Both protein. But not remotely the same thing.

Also, in both this topic and the weight loss topic people get offended about being asked to present data or facts after making claims. I certainly have opinions on the matter, but I'm mostly curious about the facts. Facts and data to back claims isn't offensive or judgmental.

I think folks who can't measure exercise outputs accurately often overstate estimated outcomes. I'd be really curious to throw a power meter on 100 commuters with similar routes. 50 onto e-bikes and 50 onto analogs. Record the actual KJ's over time and see where it pans out.

Let the numbers decide. I bet ya if you put a piece of tape over my computer for a workout and asked me at the end of a really tough one what I thought I did.......I'd probably guess at least 100 KJ too high.

I think the appearance of judgment here is introduced when people challenge the claim.

Getting facts behind the claim matters. We're in an obesity and diabetes epidemic. E-bikes could be a colossally important tool, perhaps, in battling those. I think finding out, objectively, matters. Get offended if you want to.

linberl

In the link I posted above the guy used power meters and HR monitors on motorized and unmotorized bikes, fyi. Also, 28 mph is illegal where I live on bike paths; they are class 3. That e-bike I first had after not being on a bike for decades had a 350w hub front motor and, trust me, it was pretty weak. Barely got me up hills pedaling my butt off, and could maybe get to 16mph on flats if there was no wind. The casual rider is more likely to buy a less expensive e-bike which means it is going to be heavy AF and slow any motor down. I'd really be surprised if people spending 5 grand on a supercharged Trek e-bike are people who haven't ridden bikes in years. They're more likely to buy a Pedego or something in the 40-50lb range and under 2 grand with a 20mph cap. Has anyone actually talked with multiple people riding fast e-bikes and heard they are brand new to bikes or is this just some "fear" fantasy?

shelbyfv

3alarmer 

.
...everyone in the church thinks that the guy who doesn't genuflect is just trolling.