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Lemond's new e-bikes are now for sale!

Old 12-03-20, 12:53 PM
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chaadster
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Lemond's new e-bikes are now for sale!

Lemond just went live with the site for his two new bikes, and they look sweet!

https://lemond.com/prolog
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Old 12-03-20, 01:28 PM
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it does not say How the power is delivered is it a torque sensor or cadence? or some other system?
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Old 12-03-20, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
it does not say How the power is delivered is it a torque sensor or cadence? or some other system?
The site indicates pedal assist, rear hub motor, and more specifically, using the Mahle X35+ Smart Bike system.
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Old 12-03-20, 03:54 PM
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That is friggen gorgeous. Let me know when you get it so I can come to A2 and give it a test ride.

(ok, well the "starting at $4,500" part isn't pretty.)

Last edited by chas58; 12-03-20 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 12-03-20, 04:34 PM
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Puts it right up against Specialized' s Vado SL 5.0 EQ except LeMond's is Carbon all the way.
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Old 12-03-20, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
The site indicates pedal assist, rear hub motor, and more specifically, using the Mahle X35+ Smart Bike system.
but what is the mahle system? no one knows. how the bike feels is a huge part of it. that's why I did not want a hub drive because of the cadence sensor. so what does this use? well here is more info and still no lcue on what it uses to control the power https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/x35-...-ebike-system/
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Old 12-03-20, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
That is friggen gorgeous. Let me know when you get it so I can come to A2 and give it a test ride.

(ok, well the "starting at $4,500" part isn't pretty.)
You’d be welcome to if I could swing the cash, but alas...
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Old 12-04-20, 12:19 PM
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Love my low and step thru bikes so the Dutch piqued my interest. That light placement is just not going to work with a front basket. I'm dealing with this issue as my light on the handlebar is blocked when the basket is in use. I was shocked by how much light I lost even though the blockage was only partial. It's really bad because of the black shadows cast by whatever is blocking the light. I felt so unsafe as the areas on either side of the wheel were black spots. I'm waiting on delivery of a wire basket mount to relocate my light.

Edit to add the rear lights are cool but yet again, with its placement, using panniers will entirely or partially block them.

Lastly, credit to LeMond for bringing forth lightweight ebikes. Hoping the industry will move away from predominately heavy ebikes. I'm no weight weenie, my city commuter is probably over 30 pounds easily, but 50-80 pounds for bikes is just not in appealing. At that point, you're losing the spirit of the bicycle--something that almost anyone can easily use/move.

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Old 12-04-20, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
but what is the mahle system? no one knows. how the bike feels is a huge part of it. that's why I did not want a hub drive because of the cadence sensor. so what does this use? well here is more info and still no lcue on what it uses to control the power https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/x35-...-ebike-system/
It's a standard cadence (not torque) sensor. It's going to feel about like every other cadence sensor system.
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Old 12-04-20, 02:13 PM
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I've been using a cadence sensor on my mid-drive BBS02 off road for almost six years, and must be in the minority since it doesn't feel "alien" to me. It would seem to feel even more "integrated" on a road-oriented bike. The seven pound weight of the unit is very attractive.
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Old 12-04-20, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
it does not say How the power is delivered is it a torque sensor or cadence? or some other system?
According to the pictures, and the specs at the very bottom, the controller is an iWoc 1. Same exact system as my Pinarello Dyodo. Pedal assist up to 20 MPH at one of four levels, (i.e., no pedal assist, low, medium, and high). At no assist, it rides like a very heavy bike. At the lowest assist, it feels and rides like any high-spec road bike. The medium and high level are where one really feels the assist. There is no torque sensor and power output is not really based on cadence either. The Orbea Gain and Wilier use the same system.
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Old 12-04-20, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by volosong View Post
According to the pictures, and the specs at the very bottom, the controller is an iWoc 1. Same exact system as my Pinarello Dyodo. Pedal assist up to 20 MPH at one of four levels, (i.e., no pedal assist, low, medium, and high). At no assist, it rides like a very heavy bike. At the lowest assist, it feels and rides like any high-spec road bike. The medium and high level are where one really feels the assist. There is no torque sensor and power output is not really based on cadence either. The Orbea Gain and Wilier use the same system.
I have seen a few new bikes with neither. I would like to test ride one. but since I commute or ride a tandem the bike may not be enough with groceries. but I like my bike to feel great under me and be reliable.
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Old 12-04-20, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tdonline View Post
Lastly, credit to LeMond for bringing forth lightweight ebikes.
He is not exactly pioneering anything that hasn't been done before.

Problem with trying to go light weight is so many compromises are made one ends up with the worst of both worlds. Only way to get a light battery is to make it a small battery. Thus minimal range, minimal power, light by ebike standards but still heavy by normal bike standards.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this bike is. I guess rides that are always less than an hour?
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Old 12-05-20, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
He is not exactly pioneering anything that hasn't been done before.

Problem with trying to go light weight is so many compromises are made one ends up with the worst of both worlds. Only way to get a light battery is to make it a small battery. Thus minimal range, minimal power, light by ebike standards but still heavy by normal bike standards.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this bike is. I guess rides that are always less than an hour?
I don’t think 26lbs is heavy by “normal bike standards.” It’s heavy by regular carbon fiber bike standards, and light by ebike standards.

Range is claimed to be 45 miles, with a max of 20mph, so I unless your math is more sophisticated than mine, that seems like plenty of range beyond even unusually long commutes, and at least a couple hours of riding (presuming the assist is on all the time).

I think the purpose of the bike is to have the sportiest, coolest, ebike around. It’s not for me at $4.5k, but if it was in budget, I’d buy one. I’ve got 10 other bikes to fill in the gaps.
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Old 12-05-20, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I don’t think 26lbs is heavy by “normal bike standards.” It’s heavy by regular carbon fiber bike standards, and light by ebike standards.

Range is claimed to be 45 miles, with a max of 20mph, so I unless your math is more sophisticated than mine, that seems like plenty of range beyond even unusually long commutes, and at least a couple hours of riding (presuming the assist is on all the time).

I think the purpose of the bike is to have the sportiest, coolest, ebike around. It’s not for me at $4.5k, but if it was in budget, I’d buy one. I’ve got 10 other bikes to fill in the gaps.
the price is not that high. thats around medium high price for a good e bike. my bulls was 3700 my gaped e tandem was 4200 but on sale for 3700. 4000 is the medium high level on e bikes. 8100 with rolhoff electronic hub and belt drive
https://www.r-m.de/en-us/bikes/charger3/
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Old 12-05-20, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
the price is not that high. thats around medium high price for a good e bike. my bulls was 3700 my gaped e tandem was 4200 but on sale for 3700. 4000 is the medium high level on e bikes. 8100 with rolhoff electronic hub and belt drive
https://www.r-m.de/en-us/bikes/charger3/
I didn’t say it was.

It’s more than I can easily pay for a novelty bike, however I sell luxury products and have no illusions or compunctions regarding what others can and will spend on stuff. As I said, if I could throw down for a Lemond, I certainly would...and might.
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Old 12-05-20, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I didn’t say it was.

It’s more than I can easily pay for a novelty bike, however I sell luxury products and have no illusions or compunctions regarding what others can and will spend on stuff. As I said, if I could throw down for a Lemond, I certainly would...and might.
for sure. I only buy things I can really use and I have to wok out how good of quality I need. my bike was not too had it was as much as I could afford. but it can be easy to get carried away.
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Old 12-06-20, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
for sure. I only buy things I can really use and I have to wok out how good of quality I need. my bike was not too had it was as much as I could afford. but it can be easy to get carried away.
Right, and I think the Lemond target marlet is not guys like me who think of ebikes as novelties, but rather those folks who can live car-free and consider a benefit of the buy expanded mobility and who are comparing it to the cost of owning a car. I think about urban professionals who could afford a car but would never use it and have no place to keep it, but want some freedom from public transit or who perhaps live in a hilly place like Philadelphia where a regular bike might be a bit too much of a workout for their commute. And if that bike has to go in and out of a west Philly row house, let’s say, being able to go electric at 26 or 27lbs makes the layout for a Lemond not only less than what they’d spend on a car, it comes with no real penalty to a regular bike; 26lbs is a game changer compared to 50lbs when it’s time to haul it up and down steps.

So yeah, compared to the costs of owning and purchasing a car, ebikes can offer similar mobility expansion and much lower cost and with fewer headaches. It’s not hard for me to conjure up more potential customers like that than Lemond is likely to make bikes, so if he can get his marketing right, I think he can make this work.
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Old 12-06-20, 06:58 AM
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Doubt the Lemond is targeted toward those seeking to live car free as it doesn’t come with a rack and that 250W is not really geared toward hauling significant cargo up hills.

Sleek e-bike none the less yet it is hardly alone in that regard.
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Old 12-06-20, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Range is claimed to be 45 miles, with a max of 20mph, so I unless your math is more sophisticated than mine, that seems like plenty of range beyond even unusually long commutes, and at least a couple hours of riding (presuming the assist is on all the time).
I was going off the size of the battery. Hard to find real numbers but the sales glossy says "36V 250 watt" battery. so 7 amp hours at only 36V? That is a small battery. Only the most budget ebikes are 36 volts now. Understand if you want don't want to constantly be replacing the battery that means only using about half the battery capacity.

I'm not knocking the thing, I'm honestly trying to figure out what it is good for. Yep, heavy by carbon fiber bike standards, pay all this money for high end carbon and the compromises that entails, combine that with put a minimalist battery and low end battery to save weight . Looks cool, undoubtedly fun to ride, but won't have any range and won't be overly fast.

He is just starting out. Maybe this is just an introductory model designed to gain attention. Can't believe they will sell many, but maybe with the high mark up he might still make money.


And yes, it is heavy by carbon fiber bike standards.
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Old 12-06-20, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
the price is not that high. thats around medium high price for a good e bike. my bulls was 3700 my gaped e tandem was 4200 but on sale for 3700. 4000 is the medium high level on e bikes. 8100 with rolhoff electronic hub and belt drive
https://www.r-m.de/en-us/bikes/charger3/
That price is high for a "good" ebike.

https://lunacycle.com/luna-fixed-stealth-ebike/

You and I have discussed "good" ebikes before.

By the way Chadsterr, note Luna specs the same basic battery as the Lemond but list ranges as "20 miles with average pedal input". Luna describes the battery as "very small". This seems much more realistic, more honest even.

Remember mid drive motors are typically more energy efficient than hub drives. The gearing allows the motor itself to be made differently.
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Old 12-06-20, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
it comes with no real penalty to a regular bike;
Ho man, can't agree with that statement. Hard to believe you do as well.

You would honestly commute through west Philadelphia on a bike like that? What sort of lock would you use to keep it safe?

Naw, like most things that bike is a series of compromises. I just wonder if they made so many compromises to save weight that they completely missed the mark as a bike
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Old 12-06-20, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
Doubt the Lemond is targeted toward those seeking to live car free as it doesn’t come with a rack and that 250W is not really geared toward hauling significant cargo up hills.

Sleek e-bike none the less yet it is hardly alone in that regard.
I’d challenge you to consider the market more broadly; there are lots of people living car-free with rackless bikes right now, or no bike at all.

I’d also challenge you to think more progressively about what living car-free means. Many people were shopping online for everything, including grocery, before the pandemic, which has kicked that option front and center as a practical option for many, so what use a bike rack that cannot be served by a backpack and Amazon?

It should be clarified that the Lemond Dutch does offer both rear rack and front basket.
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Old 12-06-20, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
Ho man, can't agree with that statement. Hard to believe you do as well.

You would honestly commute through west Philadelphia on a bike like that? What sort of lock would you use to keep it safe?

Naw, like most things that bike is a series of compromises. I just wonder if they made so many compromises to save weight that they completely missed the mark as a bike
I was speaking specifically with regards to weight, and as I said earlier, I don’t think 26lbs is heavy for a regular bike.

Would I commute west Philly on one? Sure, and I bet it would be great for that ride back across the river. Would I lock it up somewhere? Well, no, and certainly not for long. My sister-in-law lives out on Osage near 54th, and commutes to her office down on Chestnut in Center City, just five blocks from the Delaware. Someone like her— albeit with a little less modesty; even Dutch is dripping in flair!— seems like an ideal target audience for Lemond: already rides, well-paid, mid-life academic/professional who cannot always afford the time or compromises to make the pedal commute.
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Old 12-06-20, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
That price is high for a "good" ebike.

https://lunacycle.com/luna-fixed-stealth-ebike/

You and I have discussed "good" ebikes before.

By the way Chadsterr, note Luna specs the same basic battery as the Lemond but list ranges as "20 miles with average pedal input". Luna describes the battery as "very small". This seems much more realistic, more honest even.

Remember mid drive motors are typically more energy efficient than hub drives. The gearing allows the motor itself to be made differently.
It may be that Lemond is citing range including the optional, external battery when they say 40mi.
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