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Mid-drive with Rohloff rear hub?

Old 01-21-21, 12:28 PM
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Question Mid-drive with Rohloff rear hub?

Are there many mid-drive e-bike riders using internal 14-speed Rohloff rear hub?

Any extra wear to the Rohloff transmission or chain when combined human pedal power & electric mid-drive motor?

How does extra weight of Rohloff rear hub/wheel compare with a hub-motor rear wheel?
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Old 01-21-21, 12:45 PM
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It won't be cheap. But it's been done. Torque at the drop outs would be something to be considered to ensure you make a smart product choice. OEM Rohloff frames have a lug for the reaction arm as part of the dropout. Non-OEM hubs for retrofit have a reaction arn that clamps to the chainstay.

Also the proper shifting configuration for your frame should be considered. Some OEM frames have dual cable stops, others are designed around full cable housing run to hub, etc...

Rohloff blog post.
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Old 01-22-21, 08:43 AM
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I have not seen the Tern GSD R14, in real life, but it is an example of a mid-drive with Rohloff. I think it lists for $ 8400 USD and is available for pre-order.
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Old 01-22-21, 09:58 AM
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That some serious chunk of $$.. can get some really nice motorcycle(s) for that $$.
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Old 01-22-21, 10:22 AM
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The rear hub is in the $1500 vicinity. I think Luna has/had a model in the $5000 - $6000 range with a BBSHD plus Rohloff upgrade.
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Old 01-22-21, 09:05 PM
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Yes I generally sell mostly Rohloff equipped R+Ms to folks once they understand the benefits and ride the dang thing it is a hard thing not to want. However any mechanical shifting IGH is off the table for me. The E-14 is awesome but I didn't love regular Rohloff on an e-bike or Alfine or Nexus they are fine hubs but when you have to stop pedaling shift and start pedaling you have lost me.

It is an expensive system but it works and it works well with pretty few problems. We have had a couple occasions with issues but compared to most everything else not many and nothing really to do with the Rohloff hub just the E-14 and that was 2 out of 100+

A nice Bosch bike with a Rohloff E-14 and belt and you are pretty well set. This is my more attainable dream (with a few different cockpit parts): https://www.r-m.de/en-us/bikes/super...466_0804022629

I might also upgrade to a Fox fork and add some improved lights because I am not one for stock bikes and a Bosch e-bike is tough to get as just a frame and the e-bike gubbins and the custom manufacturers can't do the cleaner look of the integrated dual batteries and while 1000wh is plenty I want the 1250 for long trips and to tow a trailer.
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Old 02-16-21, 08:01 AM
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How many units of Rohloff hub equipped ebikes do you sell vs regular geared or mid-drive ebikes?

Where is your shop located?
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Old 02-16-21, 08:09 AM
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They even came out with a electronic shifting model that will link with a bosch.
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Old 02-16-21, 08:54 AM
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I have an e bike on the drawing boards that I intend to build within the next couple years that uses a Rohloff hub. Many bikes have been built this way and it seems to be a good solid system.
The intended purpose of my build would be to obtain a comfortable very long distance remote fat touring bike. I have priced it out at between $8,500 and $11,200 depending on what I decide on. Would start with a big titanium cargo frame purpose built with Bafang M620 drive and Phase Runner MT-CA3 controls. 2.9Kwh to 4.2Kwh 52 volt system. Mastodon Fork. Very strong alloy wheels, Jone's Ti riser bars, Infinity Saddle, Thompson dropper, Full fenders/lights, Ortilieb bags. The price varies because of the possibility of going with a more conventional drive train and add-ons like reverse cycle climate control and an Xtra wheel mate type trailer. In short, the ultimate touring bike.
Priorities in the wrong place. Maybe, I drive a 2wd, 2011 Ford Ranger XLT 4 banger stick shift.
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Old 02-16-21, 11:51 AM
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Sounds like an interesting build, upright or recumbent? Recumbent would be better for comfort over long distance.

Nothing wrong with putting your priorities in 2-wheel vehicles. I drive a 2wd 1998 Mazda B2300 auto, with 362k mi. on odometer, still OEM engine & tranny.
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Old 02-16-21, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
Sounds like an interesting build, upright or recumbent? Recumbent would be better for comfort over long distance.

Nothing wrong with putting your priorities in 2-wheel vehicles. I drive a 2wd 1998 Mazda B2300 auto, with 362k mi. on odometer, still OEM engine & tranny.
Upright, cant' stand the position of a recumbent, especially in traffic. the Infinity saddle is very comfortable.
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Old 02-16-21, 12:41 PM
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IME, after riding 30+ year of upright & 16+ years recumebent; no saddle is comfortable for extra long distance.

Is your build going to have a cargo frame like any below?



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Old 02-16-21, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
IME, after riding 30+ year of upright & 16+ years recumebent; no saddle is comfortable for extra long distance.

Is your build going to have a cargo frame like any below?
The cargo frame that I want is more traditional with panniers front and rear. A big battery will set behind the seat post and ahead of the rear wheel.

The Infinity saddle is the only saddle I have ever sat on that gets more comfortable the longer you sit on it. I often drop the seat post, put my feet on the ground and stay on the saddle for breaks.
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Old 03-19-21, 12:32 AM
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Talking

Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
That some serious chunk of $$.. can get some really nice motorcycle(s) for that $$.
The GSD really should be compared to a car replacement rather than motorcycle. The Tern GSD can carry hundreds of pounds and be equipped in many configurations to do so. Not many motorcycles can carry that much stuff. I've heard that all R14's have been sold for the year, so price doesn't seem to be deterring buyers. We are car-free and have two being delivered next month.
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Old 03-19-21, 12:14 PM
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Well, each one of the cars I have ever owned cost less $$.. even the ones that lasted me decades & few hundred thousands of miles.. priorities, I guess.
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Old 03-19-21, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
Nothing wrong with putting your priorities in 2-wheel vehicles. I drive a 2wd 1998 Mazda B2300 auto, with 362k mi. on odometer, still OEM engine & tranny.
Rule #25: The bikes on top of your car should be worth more than the car.
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Old 03-20-21, 06:43 AM
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I read constantly about torque limits on Rohloffs. Some touring blogs even warn about limiting gearing combos with just human power. I've seen a number of ebike articles with Rohloffs so it is done. I've seen occasional posts from people who have destroyed a Rohloff with too much torque or more commonly water damage from crossing a stream. Lesser number of people who have just worn them out, but that does happen as well.

How reliable they are in a mid drive configuration is hard to tell. Rohloff's tend to elicit a religious response from the people who have invested the coin to purchase them. some of them get super defensive when people provide anything less than favorable responses.

In all honesty I would like to know. Mid edrive, Rohloff and Gate belt drive sounds like a nice set up.
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Old 03-20-21, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by KPREN View Post
I have an e bike on the drawing boards that I intend to build within the next couple years that uses a Rohloff hub. Many bikes have been built this way and it seems to be a good solid system.
The intended purpose of my build would be to obtain a comfortable very long distance remote fat touring bike. I have priced it out at between $8,500 and $11,200 depending on what I decide on. Would start with a big titanium cargo frame purpose built with Bafang M620 drive and Phase Runner MT-CA3 controls. 2.9Kwh to 4.2Kwh 52 volt system. Mastodon Fork. Very strong alloy wheels, Jone's Ti riser bars, Infinity Saddle, Thompson dropper, Full fenders/lights, Ortilieb bags. The price varies because of the possibility of going with a more conventional drive train and add-ons like reverse cycle climate control and an Xtra wheel mate type trailer. In short, the ultimate touring bike.
Priorities in the wrong place. Maybe, I drive a 2wd, 2011 Ford Ranger XLT 4 banger stick shift.
Man, you don't do anything half way. Don't get too far from civilization with a rig like that, although if anyone could McGyver their way out of problems you sound like the guy.

You had the XLT package on your Ranger? Luxury! I drove the base model for a good decade, reliable vehicle.
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Old 03-20-21, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
How many units of Rohloff hub equipped ebikes do you sell vs regular geared or mid-drive ebikes?
We sell probably at least 50 Rohloff bikes a year (in our at least 4th year of selling Rohloff equipped bikes) and maybe more and potentially more now that Tern has a Rohloff Equipped bike. In terms of comparison to other R+M bikes it is probably less on the derailleur side and more Vario and Rohloff with Rohloff generally being the bigger seller. On par with other bikes sold it is probably more derailleur bikes but probably a good 60+% of bikes we have are derailleur equipped. We have done quite a few IGHs though running the gamut from cheaper nexus units to Enviolo to Rohloff and stuff in between. Certainly if a customer can they will likely go Rohloff but sometimes budget won't quite stretch or more range is preferred so the dual battery is more important than the drivetrain. Though I have had some folks say, let's do the whole kit and kaboodle because once you ride the e-14 you really don't want to quit.

Also to update I have ordered my SuperCharger2 Rohloff HS with the 1250wh batteries, I didn't think I would be doing that so early in the year but I was able to get financing so it was attainable. I will eventually be able to post a long term review. However in the short term of my test riding various bikes with E-14 I was sold easily and our regulars at the shop love theirs and are putting some serious miles on them. We have one guy who has I think over 5k miles in about a year (I only know because we got to chatting when he brought it in for a tune up) and probably will put in a lot more especially now he is looking for bikes for his wife and daughter to go riding and touring. The people with the Enviolo stuff still love their bikes but are more interested in Rohloff now seeing the limitations of the system they have with their higher mileage riding.
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Old 03-25-21, 04:47 PM
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This looks to be informative. I hope we can keep it going with good information. Be Well, Bluesfrog.
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Old 03-31-21, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
I read constantly about torque limits on Rohloffs. Some touring blogs even warn about limiting gearing combos with just human power. I've seen a number of ebike articles with Rohloffs so it is done. I've seen occasional posts from people who have destroyed a Rohloff with too much torque or more commonly water damage from crossing a stream. Lesser number of people who have just worn them out, but that does happen as well.

How reliable they are in a mid drive configuration is hard to tell. Rohloff's tend to elicit a religious response from the people who have invested the coin to purchase them. some of them get super defensive when people provide anything less than favorable responses.

In all honesty I would like to know. Mid edrive, Rohloff and Gate belt drive sounds like a nice set up.
according to their site they are rated for 130nm of torque. I think thats between the 100w and the 1500 watt Bafang mid drive.
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Old 04-01-21, 12:07 PM
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The Rohloff hub is the strongest internal geared hub on the market and also has the least energy loss through friction of any internal geared system. That said it is still possible to damage it with to much torque. I have a Rohloff on a Co-Motion Pandea. I do not need to stop pedaling when I shift. A can let enough pressure of the crank without stopping my legs to shift. Shift at the top of the pedal stroke and you don't need to let of any pressure. If your going to build up a bicycle and add a Rohloff then there are some things I would pay attention to. Purchase the exterior gear mesh version of the hub. This allows you to run cable housing from the shifter to the hub without any breaks. There are glue on cable guides for frames not setup for the Rohloff. The Rohloff hub has several axle plates available. My frame uses the OEM version because my dropouts are designed for the Rohloff hub. If your frame has disk break tabs you may be able to use the OEM 2 plate with a speedbone or monkeybone. If your frame has no disk tabs then there is a torque arm setup made for that problem. I am currently looking for a Yuba Mundo bicycle frame to setup with a Rohloff and a front hub motor. If you are going to setup yours with a mid drive be carful not to over torque the Rohloff. The are 500 watt motors with 140 nm of torque. There is also a piece of hardware with electronics to back off the motor when you shift. Those ebikes with the Bosch motor and the Rohloff have a 400 watt motor in them and it produces 85 nm of torque.
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Old 04-01-21, 03:03 PM
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Some new tech to replace front derailleur x2 drivetrain:
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Old 04-01-21, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
Some new tech to replace front derailleur x2 drivetrain: https://youtu.be/UFMhUYoqFyc
Of course, what new tech wouldn't include proprietary consumables?

Why not just buy this & save $2250 Euro dollars?
177% range. Naught point 75, direct drive, & then a whole bunch more.
Surely a rim can be laced to it with some of the left over money pile?

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