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She used to be an e-bike hater

Old 01-25-21, 01:33 PM
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She used to be an e-bike hater

Good video.

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Old 01-26-21, 07:28 AM
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I honestly believe anyone who truly enjoys riding a bike would enjoy an ebike if they could just give one a chance. Sort of tough because there is a pretty substantial buy in to try a bike.

Going to take some time for people to gain acceptance as they learn more about them.
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Old 01-26-21, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post

I honestly believe anyone who truly enjoys riding a bike would enjoy an ebike if they could just give one a chance. Sort of tough because there is a pretty substantial buy in to try a bike.

Going to take some time for people to gain acceptance as they learn more about them.
True, but there are a couple countries in Europe where half of all bike sales are ebikes.

It's a chicken and egg problem. Most people are too chicken to ride until we egg the government on to make places better and safer to ride.
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Old 01-26-21, 02:12 PM
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The e-haters in my area haven't changed their tune in the slightest even though some have tried them (based on what they've reported on the MTB forum). It's fever pitch with them, and the only ones who don't disapprove vehemently admit they don't because they poach trails, trespass, exceed specified speed limits or do some other "inappropriate" action.
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Old 01-26-21, 02:39 PM
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I don't ride an e-bike, but I look at them as I would any motorized vehicle. It's the operator that determines if it's used correctly, or becomes a menace. There is one on a mup I visit that is definitely a menace, but several more that are just fine. Doesn't take many flying around, not riding safely, to give responsible riders a bad rep. Don't plan on riding one for a long while, but hope when I get to that point, that just because it has a motor, won't bring a lot of disrespect.
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Old 01-26-21, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by freeranger View Post

Don't plan on riding one for a long while, but hope when I get to that point, that just because it has a motor, won't bring a lot of disrespect.
I haven't gotten any flack. I have gotten questions. But I live in Maine, which tends to be polite, and there just aren't a lot of riders where I ride. I imagine if I rode a mtn ebike, where there is a lot less space, things could be very different.
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Old 01-27-21, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by late View Post
True, but there are a couple countries in Europe where half of all bike sales are ebikes.

It's a chicken and egg problem. Most people are too chicken to ride until we egg the government on to make places better and safer to ride.
Europeans tend to use bikes for transport whereas the US seems to be more for sport. I think commuters can see the benefits, whereas someone trying to set a personal best thinks power assist makes them less of a person. If the members on this site are any measure too many of them feel ebikes are only for old or otherwise disabled people. One guy says he told his wife to leave him and find a "more appropriate man" should he ever bring home an ebike.

Hard to reach a person with that outlook

Interesting comments on trail riders. I don't do much of that these days. But even there, have to wonder if the biggest complaint isn't just getting passed.

If you read the hater's reasons for not liking the bikes some are valid but many are nonsense. That is where extended test rides would help educate.

Speaking of sales, read somewhere there are more ebikes in China than the rest of the world combined. Ebikes solve a huge transportation problem there.
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Old 01-27-21, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post

Europeans tend to use bikes for transport whereas the US seems to be more for sport. I think commuters can see the benefits, whereas someone trying to set a personal best thinks power assist makes them less of a person. If the members on this site are any measure too many of them feel ebikes are only for old or otherwise disabled people. One guy says he told his wife to leave him and find a "more appropriate man" should he ever bring home an ebike.

Hard to reach a person with that outlook

Interesting comments on trail riders. I don't do much of that these days. But even there, have to wonder if the biggest complaint isn't just getting passed.

If you read the hater's reasons for not liking the bikes some are valid but many are nonsense. That is where extended test rides would help educate.

Speaking of sales, read somewhere there are more ebikes in China than the rest of the world combined. Ebikes solve a huge transportation problem there.
There's a couple reasons for that. About 90% of Americans don't feel riding a bicycle is safe, and they have a point. Riding in traffic can be done, but there is a lot more risk than there is in the Netherlands, which is the gold standard for cycling infrastructure.

The second point is that cycle friendly cities are people friendly cities. The Netherlands have brilliantly made their cities so you don't need to do long trips most of the time. Most people can walk to get groceries in 5 min, a LOT of commutes can be done in 10 or 15 minutes or less, by bicycle.

To get there, we will have to change our cities, which, coincidentally, make them a lot less polluted, safer, and better places to live.

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Old 01-27-21, 08:44 AM
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I had a regular bike for commuting, but quickly got on the bike for time consistency purposes for incement weather and to be less sweaty at work. I commute about 12 miles one way and have been doing it for about two years now. Commuting allows me to destress and enjoy nature. I see a lot of pros using ebikes as another training tool. I generally follow the rules and see other cyclists who don't on both e and non e bikes. My ebike has made life better for me. I am carless and have a motorscooter and an ebike for transportation.
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Old 01-27-21, 12:43 PM
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I used to use an MTB, then one converted with a front hub system for most errands, but now that I've moved to a more urban area, it's too risky. I have limited enthusiasm for becoming a hood ornament. Have decommissioned my front and rear hub motors. It's only mid-drive off road now.
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Old 01-28-21, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by late View Post
There's a couple reasons for that. About 90% of Americans don't feel riding a bicycle is safe, and they have a point. Riding in traffic can be done, but there is a lot more risk than there is in the Netherlands, which is the gold standard for cycling infrastructure.

The second point is that cycle friendly cities are people friendly cities. The Netherlands have brilliantly made their cities so you don't need to do long trips most of the time. Most people can walk to get groceries in 5 min, a LOT of commutes can be done in 10 or 15 minutes or less, by bicycle.

To get there, we will have to change our cities, which, coincidentally, make them a lot less polluted, safer, and better places to live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKIVX968PQ
All valid concerns. But I think the biggest difference between the US and Europe is population densities. Bicycle commuting is much more effective in urban areas. Not so much for places like rural Nebraska.
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Old 01-28-21, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
All valid concerns. But I think the biggest difference between the US and Europe is population densities. Bicycle commuting is much more effective in urban areas. Not so much for places like rural Nebraska.
True dat. But only 2% of the population now lives in rural areas so not such a significant demographic.

Big obstacle to owning an e-bike in a city (apart from traffic dangers) is the same as owning any bike there ó where to store and park. Most apartment dwellers have no room indoors, and for those in walk ups e-bikes are pretty much out of the question. On NYCís Lower East Side (Loisida) you can see hundreds, perhaps thousands of bikes chained to railings for blocks and blocks along the avenues, most no longer serviceable. And police cut the chains off bikes locked to subway kiosks and sometimes even lamp posts. Citibikes has rental stations dotted throughout Manhattan (dunno whether they service any of the other boros yet) but theyíre an expensive and imperfect solution. Most end up way out of place by the end of the day and have to be rounded up by crews in bakery trucks to be evenly redistributed. And AFAIK Citi has not ventured into the realm of e-bikes thus far.

Am now residing in rural, upstate NY, where the weather permits riding for less than two thirds of the year, so bike commuting is inherently limited to begin with. Plus, even here the bulk of the population lives in tiny urban or ďincorporatedĒ areas under cramped conditions without room to store a bike indoors. Iím lucky to have space for a few bikes myself under the eaves of my farmhouse at the entrance to my own apartment, but there are no other protected places elsewhere on the property for any of my tenantsí bikes.

That said, have recently noticed a handful of employees at the Shoprite up in town parking their e-bikes in the stands provided there. Kinda funny because none of those workers live more than a mile from the store and the surrounding environ is fairly flat; how much time and effort could an e-bike possibly be saving them over an unassisted one in that situation? Then again Iíve overheard fit looking young people up here bragging/bitĘhing about commuting almost two miles on their bikes, so...
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Old 01-28-21, 12:58 PM
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A couple of minor points. First, Citibikes are in the boroughs and expanding there. Second, citibikes now has ebikes. Not great but very suitable foe nyc streets. Third, Citibikes are almost always returned to the docks because they have your credit card number and will charge you after your rental period is over 30 minutes or an hour depending upon membership status. The rental bikes and scooters and so forth lying around are from other private companies.

One additional contradicting factor. The boroughs often have more space for bikes and for riding too. My former apartment building in Brooklyn had several bike rooms in the basement. Lots of buildings in Brooklyn and Queens have places for bikes too.

These are all minor details. Your main points are valid.
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Old 01-28-21, 01:56 PM
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Me my e bike made riding possible again. my body is wacky and my energy levels are all over the place. my e bike lets me keep my commute fast no matter how I feel bad days I can work less and keep the speed good days i can put out more watts and usually go a bit slower but get a better workout. then the wife and I got a e tandem and we got 2500 miles in a year. between the two of them I got 9000 miles in a year.
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Old 01-28-21, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post

Me my e bike made riding possible again. my body is wacky and my energy levels are all over the place. my e bike lets me keep my commute fast no matter how I feel bad days I can work less and keep the speed good days i can put out more watts and usually go a bit slower but get a better workout. then the wife and I got a e tandem and we got 2500 miles in a year. between the two of them I got 9000 miles in a year.
I didn't know there were any e-tandems. That's terrific, keep up the good work!
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Old 01-28-21, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BEC111 View Post
A couple of minor points. First, Citibikes are in the boroughs and expanding there. Second, citibikes now has ebikes. Not great but very suitable foe nyc streets. Third, Citibikes are almost always returned to the docks because they have your credit card number and will charge you after your rental period is over 30 minutes or an hour depending upon membership status. The rental bikes and scooters and so forth lying around are from other private companies.

One additional contradicting factor. The boroughs often have more space for bikes and for riding too. My former apartment building in Brooklyn had several bike rooms in the basement. Lots of buildings in Brooklyn and Queens have places for bikes too.

These are all minor details. Your main points are valid.
Glad to hear Citibikes is expanding.

But it isnít loose bikes they have to collect, itís that thereís an overflow being docked in Midtown so they have to be returned back to the outer stations. I used to see them being retrieved from around Farley Station every evening. Post office was under construction for the new Moynihan so jeepers, what a traffic jam.

My friends and family in Brooklyn all live in Brownstones/Greystones with no place for bikes outside and steep winding stoops leading up to the front door. My brother had to leave his A2B chained to the cast iron fence, and the police cut the chain from a lamp post outside his place of work on Flatbush.

I grew up in an apartment building in the Bronx that had a dedicated suite of bike rooms on the first floor just off the main entrance. It wasnít heated so endured frost/thaws during the winter and the bikes that didnít rust to bits kept getting stolen. When I finally got a 10-speed, was able to keep it in my bedroom since by that time my brother had moved out so there was the room. Fellow tenants were probably not too happy to share the small elevator with me though ó my family lived on the top floor ó but they were all impressed by the distances I covered. Used to love taking the Mosholu Parkway bike path across town, and circumnavigating the NY Botanic Garden. Also enjoyed going over the George Washington to NJ and riding up to Tarrytown, though in those days it wasnít allowed to cross the Tappan Zee by bike. Is there a bike lane on the new bridge? Also fun cycling to Sagamore Hill in Oyster Bay.

Yeah thereís some great riding in the city, quite aside from Central and Prospect Parks. But the traffic got so bad before I moved away, made it terribly difficult to cycle Manhattan streets any time of day.
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Old 01-28-21, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by late View Post
I didn't know there were any e-tandems. That's terrific, keep up the good work!
its a blast the motor cuts out at 20mph if we are feeling good we course without it. we have gone light mountain biking with it and can climb 16% grades. so far 55 miles at once. hopefully longer when the weather gets better.
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Old 01-29-21, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
True dat. But only 2% of the population now lives in rural areas so not such a significant demographic.
Well clearly "rural" was the wrong word.

The US has built a completely different way of living compared to Europe, NYC notwithstanding. I live in the burbs of DC/Baltimore, one continuous city really, but bicycling for transport is difficult here. Everything involves a drive. The US tends to grow outward as populations increase. Europe doesn't have quite the same option. Also don't forget Europe taxes the snot out of gas and even automobiles.

No I hear what you are saying, build it and they will come. Unfortunately that is problematic for the majority of the US. Places like Europe and China have millions of bicycle commuters, so they build infrastructure to support that. We would be be building infrastructure with the hope bike commuters show up. Much harder sell.
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Old 01-29-21, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post

Well clearly "rural" was the wrong word.

The US has built a completely different way of living compared to Europe, NYC notwithstanding. I live in the burbs of DC/Baltimore, one continuous city really, but bicycling for transport is difficult here. Everything involves a drive. The US tends to grow outward as populations increase. Europe doesn't have quite the same option. Also don't forget Europe taxes the snot out of gas and even automobiles.

No I hear what you are saying, build it and they will come. Unfortunately that is problematic for the majority of the US. Places like Europe and China have millions of bicycle commuters, so they build infrastructure to support that. We would be be building infrastructure with the hope bike commuters show up. Much harder sell
If we ever get serious, we will need to remake parts of cities to make them more energy efficient, and reduce pollution, and improves safety and liveabilty. Netherlands does it right. They also cost less, suburbs are a like a Ponzi scheme, they throw away a LOT of money.
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Old 01-29-21, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
Glad to hear Citibikes is expanding.
Yeah thereís some great riding in the city, quite aside from Central and Prospect Parks. But the traffic got so bad before I moved away, made it terribly difficult to cycle Manhattan streets any time of day.
I need to clarify further. I lived in Brooklyn Heights with many neighbors who rode regularly. Even to work, but mostly recreationally. Often taking the paths along the Belt Parkway.

I didnít ride. Mostly because the wife didnít want me to. So my info is out of date, though not completely.

When I retired a few years ago one of my friends suggested we move to his home area, Northern Virginia. We happened to move to the same 55 plus community thatís adjacent to the W&OD MUP. He also got me to start riding. Almost all my riding is on this excellent 45 mile trail.

Iíd planned a few rides into DC for last summer, but COVID prevented that. Urban riding is definitely a challenge and keeping your bike un-stolen can be a challenge. Bike parking in DC can be terrible or very good depending upon location. The city tries to be bike friendly.

There was an article in the NYTimes and a YouTube video from Propel bikes about the lack of bike parking in NYC. It seems parking your bike safely may be a bigger issue than having safe places to ride.

if I understood your original comments correctly weíre on the same page on this topic. Urban riding can be dangerous. Parking and bike card nearly impossible, Non-cyclist antagonism still a problem. Letís keep this discussion going and get more folks feedback if we can.
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Old 02-18-21, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
I honestly believe anyone who truly enjoys riding a bike would enjoy an ebike if they could just give one a chance. Sort of tough because there is a pretty substantial buy in to try a bike.

Going to take some time for people to gain acceptance as they learn more about them.
The buy in is a big factor. I'd like to get my wife one but they ain't cheap.
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Old 02-18-21, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DomoNishiki View Post
The buy in is a big factor. I'd like to get my wife one but they ain't cheap.
well they can be just like any bike. but usually 2500 to start with a decent bike. but I ride mine 6000 miles in a year and its our e tandem 9000 a year so its not a big expense. I think I spent more on my gold rush recumbent 10 years ago. we don't even own a car we ride everywhere.
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Old 02-18-21, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
well they can be just like any bike. but usually 2500 to start with a decent bike. but I ride mine 6000 miles in a year and its our e tandem 9000 a year so its not a big expense. I think I spent more on my gold rush recumbent 10 years ago. we don't even own a car we ride everywhere.
Well your very lucky to be able to not drive and own such fine bikes. Most can't.
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Old 02-18-21, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DomoNishiki View Post
The buy in is a big factor. I'd like to get my wife one but they ain't cheap.
If my wife wanted one she would think it was cheap and I was cheap.
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Old 02-19-21, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DomoNishiki View Post
Well your very lucky to be able to not drive and own such fine bikes. Most can't.
I rode public transportation for 25 years. so not sure how lucky I am.
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