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wonky dead hub motor driving me insane!!!

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wonky dead hub motor driving me insane!!!

Old 04-30-21, 11:35 AM
  #1  
woofalot
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wonky dead hub motor driving me insane!!!

i've spent fffffar too many hours of my life trying to sort this out but the hunt for an answer continues. it's a basic bafang 350w SWX02 hubmotor using a 36v battery. one day it just kind of sputtered to a standstill. eventually, i bought one of those Chinese testers, opened the motor up, and found that one of the hall sensors was frozen on. figured bad hall sensor. rather than attempt to replace the bad one, i bought a sensor/sensorless controller from amazon, along w/ a new throttle/display to go with it. obviously, i'm trying to go sensorless. so, i hooked everything up and after many failures, finally got the display to light up and all my checking with a multimeter suggested all was well, including the power into a motor. did the phase wire test and got the requisite sluggish turning of the wheel. shorted the on/off wires into the throttle so it's all current all the time. and yet nothing nada zippo. a turn of the throttle produces only more silence and frustration.

two things suggest themselves to me. the motor is rated for 10A, while the controller is for 17A. may return it for that reason but even so that shouldnt stop the wheel from turning, right?

last possibility from my limited knowledge is ... i've read that when you have the phase wires hooked up to the tester, they should light up the phase lights one after the other sequentially. in my case, they all flicker to life at once as the wheel turns. could that be it? what would that mean?

i thought it might be because i still had the old hall wires hooked up to the new controller, so i just removed them. didn't matter. well, maybe the contoller couldn't tell i was going hall/less, so, i hooked up the learning wire using instructions i found online: disconnect battery, connect learning wire, turn battery on ... crickets.

what else could it be? i know power is getting to the motor, since i've used the multi meter on connections inside the damn thing. and now i don't know what to do or try next, other to buy a fifth of vodka and call it a day. but i don't drink, so i can't even do that. crumb.

thoughts? suggestions?

p.s. i'd post photos but i guess i'm not allowed to, this being my first post here and all ...
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Old 04-30-21, 02:02 PM
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Are you sure the motor can be run sensorless? Maybe DW can help, but you might try endless sphere. Also, don't expect it to operate sensored until you replace the defective hall.

Last edited by 2old; 04-30-21 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 04-30-21, 02:17 PM
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i'm pretty sure the bafang itself it sensor agnostic, leaving it up to the controller to either find the halls or not and go from there. i could be wrong, of course.

the only reason i've gotten as far as i have in testing is ES and the good folks there. thought i'd give them a break, however, and look for assistance elsewhere. if i still can't get the motor going, i will prolly go back to them, once they've had a chance to rest up from my previous foray into the community.

yup, about defective halls, which is why i bought a dual-state controller, just so i could not deal with halls or at least try not to.

meanwhile, i seem to have shorted out my tester. sigh.

Last edited by woofalot; 04-30-21 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 04-30-21, 10:29 PM
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i've read that when you have the phase wires hooked up to the tester, they should light up the phase lights one after the other sequentially. in my case, they all flicker to life at once as the wheel turns. could that be it? what would that mean?

Turn the wheel very slowly and you will see all three LED's flicker very slowly. If You cover the other two, you can see the remaining one go on/off.
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two things suggest themselves to me. the motor is rated for 10A, while the controller is for 17A. may return it for that reason but even so that shouldn't stop the wheel from turning, right?

Makes no difference with no load on the wheel. If you ever get everything working, with the wheel on the ground, than putting 30A on a hill into it might melt it. Right now, that would not prevent it from working.

Last edited by Doc_Wui; 04-30-21 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 04-30-21, 10:47 PM
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i thought it might be because i still had the old hall wires hooked up to the new controller, so i just removed them. didn't matter. well, maybe the contoller couldn't tell i was going hall/less, so, i hooked up the learning wire using instructions i found online: disconnect battery, connect learning wire, turn battery on ... crickets.

I bought a sensorless controller by mistake once, but it worked quite well. I use it with a Bafang SWXH, which is a sensored motor, The controller didn't have no learning wire and no phase inputs either. A proper sensorless box doesn't need that stuff. Like this one. Used with a KT display,
https://www.pswpower.com/products/24...ight-output-32
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Old 05-01-21, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Doc_Wui View Post
Turn the wheel very slowly and you will see all three LED's flicker very slowly. If You cover the other two, you can see the remaining one go on/off.
Doesn't that only show if the sensors are working?
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Old 05-01-21, 06:58 AM
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thanks, all!

Doc Wui: yes, I see the LEDs flicker as you say but as far as i can tell, it's not sequential, the way it is when testing the hall sensors. they flicker all at once, again, from what i can see, since you do have to turn the wheel faster when testing phase wires than the halls, right? but ... i guess i connected the main battery power line to the tester or something and blew it out, so i can't test those wires again right now.

i already have that PSWP controller, with matching throttle, on its way to me from china. had bought the amazon stuff first, so i thought i'd just try it out as a test. looks to me like both of them have phase-wire inputs.

hmmmm. are the phase wires only necessary if you're using the hall sensors? maybe i'll try again with the phase wires disconnected, though i won't have high hopes.

any other diagnostic suggestions?

edit: just went and bought a used bafang motor, a so-called Jump motor, that i'm told is the same size as mine, which i'm further told will allow me to just swap the guts of the motor and reuse the housing that's already got the rim on it, etc. $66 shipped. just trying to prepare myself in case i can't get the current motor running again.

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Old 05-01-21, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
Doesn't that only show if the sensors are working?
Wasn't that the point?

You can put the tester on a controller, with the phase/sensors connected to a controller. My tester has some LED's arranged in a circle. If I try to run the controller, the LED's chase each other with one lap around the circle. If I mix up the sensors wires, the LED's will follow a different pattern. Perhaps the original designer knew how to read that pattern, Maybe some time, I'll compare different controllers and see if the pattern is consistent.

THese days. how would I know if my motor or controller works? I plug then into another bike that is working.
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Old 05-01-21, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by woofalot View Post
thanks, all!
just went and bought a used bafang motor, a so-called Jump motor, that i'm told is the same size as mine, which i'm further told will allow me to just swap the guts of the motor and reuse the housing that's already got the rim on it, etc. $66 shipped. just trying to prepare myself in case i can't get the current motor running again.
I got two of those for 90 bucks and $16 shipping. Came in three days and they worked! Only tradeoff is they're front motors for a disk brake fork. My fork is rim brakes, and since the rims are curved, not flat, they're not going to work as well with rim brakes.. I may respoke the new fork on these motors if the rims are the same diameter. If not, I'd need new spokes.
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Old 05-01-21, 01:10 PM
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i hate to say this but, in the beginning, i did test all the stuff i've got now, on a perfect good and identical scooter ... and promptly managed to fry it, too. again, seems like its the hall sensors. man, i'm a menace!

the disc brake on the motor i ordered should be fine, since mine in a disc. if i can just swap motor-guts, however, the brakes won't matter. but ... that's a big 'if'.
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Old 05-02-21, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Doc_Wui View Post
Wasn't that the point?
Just got confused with the thread talking about sensorless controllers. Testing sensors with a sensorless controller didn't make sense.

Bit of pun in that...
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Old 05-04-21, 06:44 PM
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If you give up I replace hall sensors all the time.
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Old 05-04-21, 07:43 PM
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haven't given up but i did buy some hall sensors. have any tips when it comes to installing them?
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