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Cargo Bike Purchase Question

Old 11-29-22, 03:32 PM
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Cargo Bike Purchase Question

Hi there!! I'm in the market for a cargo e bike as an upgrade to my lower end first e bike purchase previously made. It had a 500W rear hub motor that was more than enough for me. The bike im currently looking into the most is the new to the market Yuba Fastrack. Love the back end use to it and vertical storage is always appreciated. My only issue is its motor. I live in a VERY hilly environment where hills can have a grade of 15-20 in places where I may need to stop and start. The Fastrack comes with the Shimano e7000 with 60Nm of torque. Will this be enough to get me through those types of hills? I do food deliveries and bike regularly. Also if anyone is aware of if after a year or two of use, which Shimano motors can I place in the frame that are the same size as the e7000, would the EP8 or e8000 fit?

Thanks so much for the help!
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Old 11-29-22, 06:41 PM
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It looks like they copied the Tern GSD and HSD but swapped for Shimano. Not a bad system but I would say Bosch is going to be better and the most reliable out of everything. I don't know about swapping motors but usually that is a no go for most as they will make different mounting points. I would highly consider the Tern GSD, they have really excellent support and service and really make a quality bike. Get the R14 or S00 and you will get a belt drive and either Rohloff and dual batteries and upgraded display or Enviolo and an option for dual batteries. The belt drive for commuting and deliveries is excellent. No maintenance, lasts a long time, really excellent support from Gates (who has been doing it since 1911 not bike belts necessarily but still). They also do a standard derailleur option but I would much rather have a belt for high usage because I don't have to lube it or really clean it and for something I am using daily that is huge. I will probably forget or say meh I don't want to when it comes to chain maintenance after a long day but letting your chain go unlubed and dirty means it can fail more easily and will make hideous noises that nobody should be subjected to. A belt is quiet and you can carry one along and it is very little weight and doesn't wear out like a chain.

The cargo line motors on the Bosch drives are designed for hauling stuff so they put out extra power as you are setting off from stop and have 85nm of torque and more torque equals an easier time up the hill. Plus they have fantastic support and really long term support past when they discontinue a product. Aside from Generation 1 motors from Europe all Bosch stuff is still supported and I can get new parts as needed from them. Long term is important as e-bikes are a long game as good ones like what we are talking about here (both FastRack and GSD/HSD) will last a long time so product support is key.
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Old 11-30-22, 07:55 AM
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Maybe take advantage of this: https://electrek.co/2022/11/29/anoth...o-1700-rebate/
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Old 11-30-22, 08:58 AM
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I don't always agree with Mr VB, but do here; IMO, Bosch's motors are superior to Shimano"s although I've tested only the former. Whatever, IMO (again), don't consider a hub drive for a multitude of reasons, including, but not limited to, hill climbing performance and ease of fixing flats.
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Old 11-30-22, 11:11 AM
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Definitely would love the tern, but also looking for a bike that can sometimes carry an adult passenger so I would be going with GSD instead of HSD. The GSD is absolutely superior to the Fastrack. But where I am located getting a GSD with belt drive and enviolo hub will cost roughly $3000 to $4000 more than the fast track, which is certainly not nothing. Base line GSD would be $2000+ more than it. So my reasoning really was the Fastrack IS a copy of the GSD in terms of wheel and frame size, and I was trying to decide if the better motor system is worth that kind of money. Especially challenging because the Fastrack is new enough that the local shop only has it as a order to purchase, can't test drive it at all.
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Old 11-30-22, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
Maybe take advantage of this:

Another US state adds electric bike subsidy, this time with up to $1,700 rebate

A $1700 USD rebate sounds amazing, but I have the ability to get a $500 CAD rebate here in Nova Scotia.
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Old 11-30-22, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cdot123
Definitely would love the tern, but also looking for a bike that can sometimes carry an adult passenger so I would be going with GSD instead of HSD. The GSD is absolutely superior to the Fastrack. But where I am located getting a GSD with belt drive and enviolo hub will cost roughly $3000 to $4000 more than the fast track, which is certainly not nothing. Base line GSD would be $2000+ more than it. So my reasoning really was the Fastrack IS a copy of the GSD in terms of wheel and frame size, and I was trying to decide if the better motor system is worth that kind of money. Especially challenging because the Fastrack is new enough that the local shop only has it as a order to purchase, can't test drive it at all.
The motor is worth it well worth it for what you are doing. Also important is a test ride. Though we did sell out of the first gen GSDs before they had even been ridden we ordered 3-4 for the shop and sold them all out and we didn't get to have one for the floor for months after that.

I know it is more expensive initially but always look long term and Bosch is long term. Shimano is fine stuff with good support but long term I think Bosch is superior, they come from a strong automotive and consumer product background so they understand long term support I think better than most in the industry.
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Old 11-30-22, 12:50 PM
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It's a very fair point, thanks for the help! This is going to be a good decades long purchase used everyday so you are very correct, thanks!
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Old 11-30-22, 09:01 PM
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While Shimano’s engineering is highly regarded, Bosch motors were originally designed to support the automotive industry as power steering motors (torque-sensing, low speed, high-torque motors make a lot of sense in that application). Because the Bosch motors were designed to automotive reliability standards, I happily put my faith in Bosch’s longevity over other alternatives.
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Old 12-01-22, 09:03 AM
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I've had cargo ebikes with mid-drive, but never felt the mid-drive motor offer any significant performance gain for the price difference.
I've been riding cargo ebikes in NYC metro since 2018, hauling large volume of food items between school & homeless shelter in Brooklyn.
My recent cargo ebike was purchased from Alibaba, under $1800 including free shipping from China, as posted in previous thread:
Chinese Utility e-bikes

I had no issues with power output or performance of 750w hub motor, even while carrying cargo that exceeded 80 lb. in the milk crates.
No, there are not that many huge hills to climb with steep gradient in NYC metro, but short distance climbs (under 1/4 or 1/2 mi.) with about 10& gradient are not uncommon.
IME, most people lack the practice of shifting technique for optimizing the climbing ability on hub-motored ebikes.
To maximize any bike's climbing ability, the rider should know to use proper gearing, relying on motor while climbing in the tallest gear is not likely to serve well.
Personally, I use the cargo ebike regularly, in just about any weather, I don't bother with cleaning it; only work on it as it needs it.

The long wheelbase was just something too much for my preference and storage of the cargo ebike was a hassle with limited space.
It was nice to have two batteries available on the cargo ebike, but the combined weight with the larger frame is just too much for my liking.
I sold the cargo ebike after about 18 months, about 2k miles ridden, for about the same amount that I bought it.
Since MAR 2022, I have a Fiido T1 to replace the cargo ebike, and that's been working out very well, too.. even though Fiido T1 had a recall and sent me a replacement T1 (sans battery) for free.
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Old 01-31-23, 07:44 AM
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Toyota is the latest car company to jump on the electric bike bandwagon
https://electrek.co/2023/01/29/toyot...ike-bandwagon/



Last edited by cat0020; 01-31-23 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 01-31-23, 08:47 AM
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Wow that’s one I wasn’t ready for haha, really cool to see
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Old 01-31-23, 08:55 AM
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Yeah, who would have thought.. Toyota, looks expensive though.

I would have thought that whole cargo platform to be a large battery.
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Old 02-01-23, 01:08 PM
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Definitely, seems a little boxy/heavy, but understandable as I would assume a Toyota influenced cargo bike is fully about function instead of trying to feel like a good bike ride. Excited to see if it goes well.
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Old 02-01-23, 01:15 PM
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It is no more difficult to change out the chainring or the rear cassette on an e-bike than with a regular bicycle. My e-bike has a front 44T chainring and came with a 11-42t rear cassette. For me the power assist from the motor made the gearing too low and so I replaced the cassette with a 11-34t one that provided small gaps in the gearing. For a cargo bike I would replace the front chainring for a smaller one and this is a very low cost change to make in terms of the part and the labor.

Easy to calculate the inches of travel with one rotation of the front chain ring and the largest rear sprocket and then determine how much of a change will occur with a smaller chainring.
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Old 02-01-23, 03:39 PM
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I changed the front chainring on a BBS02 mid from 46 to 32 (or 30 IDR) and it reduced the top speed on level ground from 30 mph to 20, but that's about as fast as needed off road and it ascends much better. Plus, with a 750 w motor (per the mfg) and 20 mph top speed (assisted), it's a class 1 since the throttle wasn't installed.
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Old 02-03-23, 10:40 AM
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I've never used one, but I keep hearing about Radpower:

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/produc...SABEgK7cvD_BwE
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Old 02-06-23, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by late
I've never used one, but I keep hearing about Radpower:

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/produc...SABEgK7cvD_BwE
I have the previous gen Radwagon 3 and it is a decent bike. I bought mine used for a very low price. I am happy with it and if you can find a cheap used one go for it. But I would not buy a new or used Radwagon 4. This bike uses 22" tires which is a deal breaker for me. This is basically a proprietary size. Tires and tubes are only available through Rad and you cannot find any aftermarket tires in that size except a linited number of motorcycle tites. Just last year RAD had some major quality issues with their 22" tires and told owners to stop riding the bikes. It took them 6 or 7 months to get new tires out to the owners.
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Old 02-06-23, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Harhir

I have the previous gen Radwagon 3 and it is a decent bike. I bought mine used for a very low price. I am happy with it and if you can find a cheap used one go for it. But I would not buy a new or used Radwagon 4. This bike uses 22" tires which is a deal breaker for me. This is basically a proprietary size. Tires and tubes are only available through Rad and you cannot find any aftermarket tires in that size except a linited number of motorcycle tites. Just last year RAD had some major quality issues with their 22" tires and told owners to stop riding the bikes. It took them 6 or 7 months to get new tires out to the owners.
That sucks.
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Old 02-13-23, 10:39 AM
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I had one of the first Tern GSDs for 4 years, so I can attest to the longevity and durability. Zero problems and great dealer support. Liked it so much, after I sold it because my kids are bigger and now ride on their own, I bought a QuickHaul performance that afternoon.
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Old 02-13-23, 04:48 PM
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Basic stuff: rear hub motors are a pain when, not if, you get a flat. so either go with a mid-drive or make your rear tire impervious (tannus liners or something equally protective). avoid proprietary parts and oddly sized wheels (looking at you, radwagon). make sure you have a local shop that will support you, not just for mechanical issues but also electric. many shops won't work
on electric bikes if they did not sell them.
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Old 02-22-23, 10:15 AM
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Lectric is getting into the cargo ebike game with $1400 & $1700 offers.
Looks like good value to me.

https://ebikeescape.com/lectric-xpedition-review/

https://lectricebikes.com/pages/xpedition-cargo-ebike





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Old 02-22-23, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cdot123
Definitely, seems a little boxy/heavy, but understandable as I would assume a Toyota influenced cargo bike is fully about function instead of trying to feel like a good bike ride. Excited to see if it goes well.
False conflation IMO. It is also designed by a bicycle company. Toyota's influence is moderated by that fact. Boxy is in the eye of the beholder. I like it. But not to worry. It is never coming near America. If it ever gets into production at all.
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Old 03-08-23, 02:09 PM
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Hill climbing ability of Lectric XPedition hub-motor ebike..

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Old 03-11-23, 01:25 PM
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Specialized launches its most affordable electric bike yet, the 28 mph Globe Haul ST utility bike
$2700..

https://electrek.co/2023/03/09/speci...electric-bike/

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