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Why is it better to build your own mid-drive Ebike?

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Why is it better to build your own mid-drive Ebike?

Old 01-19-23, 05:42 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by vonfilm View Post
This is bicycle economics, the relative value of building oneís own mid-drive Ebike vs purchasing one ready to ride.
I'm an actual economist, and I agree with this:

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That's economics like home economics is an economics class.
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Old 01-19-23, 06:22 PM
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I encourage folks to flag this for the mods, they can't catch everything in a timely fashion w/o our help.
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Old 01-19-23, 06:28 PM
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Another thread members want to Moderate. Become moderators.


Back to the proposition of build vs buy:
If one commits an older bike, adds $2k in motor/battery/charger,
with the home kit look, wires everywhere, etc,
my preference would be all modern components and a frame designed for e-needs.
Something sleek like mid-drive or wheel drive examples like these.


What's best is an individual choice based on usage. I don't want a throttle, I don't want the weight of gobs of power, I don't want an install job, I do appreciate a local dealer, and - at least for me - good aesthetics are pleasing.

As for the economics of e-bikes = deals are out there on complete bikes. Mine was $3695 (rear hub motor) for a roadie with full Ultegra Di2 components in a carbon frame designed for an enclosed battery, purchased in Oct '22..

Last edited by Wildwood; 01-19-23 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 01-19-23, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by vonfilm View Post
I believe it to belong here because Ebikes are rapidly becoming generalized and this thread is about getting the most value for your money. It will become more about philosophy and economics than how to build a mid-drive Ebike.
No it won't. It will be about how anyone that spends more that you do is a fool.
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Old 01-19-23, 06:33 PM
  #30  
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Old 01-19-23, 06:52 PM
  #31  
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Moved here from General Cycling. We don't allow posts like this in general cycling and this thread shows why.
It's still a controversial subject outside of this forum and none of the mod staff feel like policing it when someone posts an ebike thread out of this forum. Which was specifically created for ebike discussions.
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Old 01-19-23, 07:02 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
I encourage folks to flag this for the mods, they can't catch everything in a timely fashion w/o our help.
Some members want this thread to quietly die in the Electric Bike Forum. It has plenty of relevance for General Cycling.
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Old 01-19-23, 07:05 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Moved here from General Cycling. We don't allow posts like this in general cycling and this thread shows why.
It's still a controversial subject outside of this forum and none of the mod staff feel like policing it when someone posts an ebike thread out of this forum. Which was specifically created for ebike discussions.
Ebikes are the future of cycling and certainly have relevance in General Cycling.
Some members donít like to have ideas challenged in a broader forum.
Here they figure I will just be preaching to the choir.
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Old 01-19-23, 07:11 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Another thread members want to Moderate. Become moderators.


Back to the proposition of build vs buy:
If one commits an older bike, adds $2k in motor/battery/charger,
with the home kit look, wires everywhere, etc,
my preference would be all modern components and a frame designed for e-needs.
Something sleek like mid-drive or wheel drive examples like these.


What's best is an individual choice based on usage. I don't want a throttle, I don't want the weight of gobs of power, I don't want an install job, I do appreciate a local dealer, and - at least for me - good aesthetics are pleasing.

As for the economics of e-bikes = deals are out there on complete bikes. Mine was $3695 (rear hub motor) for a roadie with full Ultegra Di2 components in a carbon frame designed for an enclosed battery, purchased in Oct '22..
I think your bike represents good value and Iím glad you like it.

I do believe that mid-drives are much more efficient, especially for climbing. There are many who do want more power. Iím not suggesting this for everyone.
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Old 01-19-23, 07:14 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
I encourage folks to flag this for the mods, they can't catch everything in a timely fashion w/o our help.
Thats right, encourage censorship of a differing opinion.
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Old 01-19-23, 07:18 PM
  #36  
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In my estimation, it could live in general cycling if not for the reference to mega watt motors that propel a bike to insane speeds.
I rode my front wheel-drive 250-watt Swytch-equipped road bike for its inaugural ride today.
The complete 700c wheel, battery, cables, throttle, etc. ran about $800 including tax & delivery. It took ten months for me to receive this gen 3 gizmo!
Currently a bit cobbled together, as I await a few accessories. Perhaps then I can start a fresh thread.
I found myself pretty much exerting the same effort, as usual, but completing the 44 miles about ten minutes quicker.
Mine does not utilize a pedal sensor - just a thumb throttle; my strategy involves giving me a boost up some climbs (I'm an old sprinter type. Emphasis on old.)
Perhaps if the thread went this direction, members could've gone less ape*****. lol
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Old 01-19-23, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by roadcrankr View Post
In my estimation, it could live in general cycling if not for the reference to mega watt motors that propel a bike to insane speeds.
I rode my front wheel-drive 250-watt Swytch-equipped road bike for its inaugural ride today.
The complete 700c wheel, battery, cables, throttle, etc. ran about $800 including tax & delivery. It took ten months for me to receive this gen 3 gizmo!
Currently a bit cobbled together, as I await a few accessories. Perhaps then I can start a fresh thread.
I found myself pretty much exerting the same effort, as usual, but completing the 44 miles about ten minutes quicker.
Mine does not utilize a pedal sensor - just a thumb throttle; my strategy involves giving me a boost up some climbs (I'm an old sprinter type. Emphasis on old.)
Perhaps if the thread went this direction, members could've gone less ape*****. lol
For $525 one can get a Tong Shen 500watt torque sensing fully programmable many level pedal assist mid drive with an optional free throttle.
For $850 one can get a CYC Photon 1000 watt torque sensing motor with the same features as the above kit.
I donít think that a lot of forum members realize what is available in easily installed, affordable mid-drive kits.
I believe that people can be trusted to ride their Ebikes in a safe manner.
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Old 01-19-23, 07:37 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by vonfilm View Post
Thats right, encourage censorship of a differing opinion.
Seeing that this has been appropriately moved to ebikes, I wouldn't be responding if you hadn't poked me with a quote. As a matter of etiquette, non-ebike cyclists don't usually post here. Having said all that, I'll tell you that the vast majority of cyclists, while having no animosity to ebikes, feel that they are hardly more relevant to cycling than a moped or scooter. Obviously they are becoming popular among folks who have difficulty riding actual bikes. That's fine, nice to be out in the fresh air. Just don't tell us how many miles you've ridden or the elevation you've climbed. So that's why there is an ebike section and you are free to enjoy it, normally w/o feedback from those of us who prefer the other way.
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Old 01-19-23, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Seeing that this has been appropriately moved to ebikes, I wouldn't be responding if you hadn't poked me with a quote. As a matter of etiquette, non-ebike cyclists don't usually post here. Having said all that, I'll tell you that the vast majority of cyclists, while having no animosity to ebikes, feel that they are hardly more relevant to cycling than a moped or scooter. Obviously they are becoming popular among folks who have difficulty riding actual bikes. That's fine, nice to be out in the fresh air. Just don't tell us how many miles you've ridden or the elevation you've climbed. So that's why there is an ebike section and you are free to enjoy it, normally w/o feedback from those of us who prefer the other way.
How self righteous of you.
Separate but equal. LOL
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Old 01-19-23, 09:06 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by vonfilm View Post
Chainline is perfect and the Q factor is good.
I never mentioned the chainline, because I actually looked at the photos and realized it was perfectly all right. However, that secondary chain drive has done the equivalent of adding a pedal spacer to the right crank, making the pedal spacing off-center re the frame. I saw that in the photos, too.

What disturbs me more than that is that you're offering 5KW motors--over 6hp--to just anyone so they can ignorantly install them on whatever ordinary bike frame they happen to have. And some of those people will do it without any thought of upgrading their brakes, not to mention all the lesser catastrophes they invite.
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Old 01-19-23, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rollagain View Post
I never mentioned the chainline, because I actually looked at the photos and realized it was perfectly all right. However, that secondary chain drive has done the equivalent of adding a pedal spacer to the right crank, making the pedal spacing off-center re the frame. I saw that in the photos, too.

What disturbs me more than that is that you're offering 5KW motors--over 6hp--to just anyone so they can ignorantly install them on whatever ordinary bike frame they happen to have. And some of those people will do it without any thought of upgrading their brakes, not to mention all the lesser catastrophes they invite.
I trust the people to be responsible.
I am not selling them. Iím just passing along the good news.
I never noticed any offset while riding. I donít think most riders would.
I am watching for a used 5-10 year old high end full suspension mountain bike with hydraulic disc brakes on which to install a CYC Pro Generation 3 after the 5,000 watt controller comes out later this year.
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Old 01-19-23, 10:04 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by vonfilm View Post
I trust the people to be responsible.
I take it you never watch the news.
I am not selling them. I’m just passing along the good news.
You might be held responsible anyway when someone asks where they got the idea.

snip
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Old 01-19-23, 10:09 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by rollagain View Post
I take it you never watch the news.

You might be held responsible anyway when someone asks where they got the idea.

snip
That is ridiculous.
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Old 01-19-23, 10:11 PM
  #44  
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Some information from CYC.


https://www.cycmotor.com/post/why-tu...-into-an-ebike
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Old 01-19-23, 10:31 PM
  #45  
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Great Video on the previous generation CYC Stealth

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Old 01-19-23, 10:38 PM
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Robís follow up video on the previous generation CYC Stealth.

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Old 01-19-23, 10:55 PM
  #47  
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The CYC Generation 3 Motor kits are much improved in instant torque sensing pedal assist and are much quieter.

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Old 01-19-23, 10:58 PM
  #48  
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I would definitely not say it is better, a bike not designed to be an e-bike as an e-bike vs. one designed to be an e-bike. My bike is way better than slapping something on something I own. The only reason you it can be better is because you have a bike that really fits super well. You can do some interesting custom stuff but I haven't yet seen a homebrew kit that looks as good. Having support from Bosch, Gates, Rohloff and Riese and MŁller in my case is pretty nice if something goes wrong. They got my back whereas I have to get my own back with a homebrew bike. Yes potentially I can get help from say Bafang but the OEM is going to say yeah no warranty unless it is a frame built specifically for e-bike usage.

I have electronic shifting Rohloff with dual batteries and a belt drive plus a display that has navigation abilities, a full keyed-a-like lock set and Magura disc brakes with a brake light. There is really not much more I want out of the bike. Any changes at this point would really just be things that don't currently exist on the market or wanting it to weigh less but that means cutting out things I don't want to cut like the dual 625wh batteries.

As far as trusting people to be responsible, that is complete and utter B.S. you cannot trust human beings to be responsible you can see our track record and it is not great for a lot of things. In terms of bikes, I have seen a lot of poorly put together kits or people needing help with putting together a kit that are trying to put them on bikes that cannot handle them at all. I remember we had a huffy beach cruiser someone was trying to put a ill fitting front hub drive, with zero brakes aside from a crappy coaster brake and no plans to add brakes. Even if the kit would fit we would have rejected it for safety issues. People don't always understand bikes and understand braking and understand basic bike care, but they like the idea of just slapping a motor on and turning it into a moped or if no throttle some sort of e-bike and can quickly get over their heads or just go for it because why not.

Yes there are people who have built successful kits and know what they are doing and such but plenty who don't and assuming and trusting people will do it correctly and safely is certainly not something I would ever do. There is maybe about 10-20 people that I trust with my life and would take a bullet for them and probably most of them I wouldn't trust to build a safe e-bike on their own. Some of them are fine riders and smart people very smart people but they aren't always knowledgeable bike people.
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Old 01-19-23, 11:09 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
I would definitely not say it is better, a bike not designed to be an e-bike as an e-bike vs. one designed to be an e-bike. My bike is way better than slapping something on something I own. The only reason you it can be better is because you have a bike that really fits super well. You can do some interesting custom stuff but I haven't yet seen a homebrew kit that looks as good. Having support from Bosch, Gates, Rohloff and Riese and MŁller in my case is pretty nice if something goes wrong. They got my back whereas I have to get my own back with a homebrew bike. Yes potentially I can get help from say Bafang but the OEM is going to say yeah no warranty unless it is a frame built specifically for e-bike usage.

I have electronic shifting Rohloff with dual batteries and a belt drive plus a display that has navigation abilities, a full keyed-a-like lock set and Magura disc brakes with a brake light. There is really not much more I want out of the bike. Any changes at this point would really just be things that don't currently exist on the market or wanting it to weigh less but that means cutting out things I don't want to cut like the dual 625wh batteries.

As far as trusting people to be responsible, that is complete and utter B.S. you cannot trust human beings to be responsible you can see our track record and it is not great for a lot of things. In terms of bikes, I have seen a lot of poorly put together kits or people needing help with putting together a kit that are trying to put them on bikes that cannot handle them at all. I remember we had a huffy beach cruiser someone was trying to put a ill fitting front hub drive, with zero brakes aside from a crappy coaster brake and no plans to add brakes. Even if the kit would fit we would have rejected it for safety issues. People don't always understand bikes and understand braking and understand basic bike care, but they like the idea of just slapping a motor on and turning it into a moped or if no throttle some sort of e-bike and can quickly get over their heads or just go for it because why not.

Yes there are people who have built successful kits and know what they are doing and such but plenty who don't and assuming and trusting people will do it correctly and safely is certainly not something I would ever do. There is maybe about 10-20 people that I trust with my life and would take a bullet for them and probably most of them I wouldn't trust to build a safe e-bike on their own. Some of them are fine riders and smart people very smart people but they aren't always knowledgeable bike people.
Thanks for your input. It sounds like you have a really nice ebike that you love.
I will say that my CYC Stealth Generation 3 was easy to install and has a two year warranty. If you can can change out a crankset and bottom bracket, you can easily install one.
In the USA the people are trusted with items that are dangerous if misused.
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Old 01-19-23, 11:27 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by vonfilm View Post
That is ridiculous.
Is it? I pulled this directly off of the link you gave to the CYC website:

"Itís made to fit 95% of all existing frames."
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