Four Dead In NYC "e" Fire
 

Yesterday there was a report of a fire in Chinatown that started in a battery repair facility. The place had been cited previously by the NYC Fire Department. It'll be interesting to see what new rules result from this. I won't be surprised if future insurance policies for homeowners exclude"e" fires in some way.

There is zero possibility the NY Fire Dept. is ever going to get a handle on how these batteries are stored and maintained. There are thousands of these e-bikes in use, mainly by delivery people mostly, and theres a huge underground industry selling and maintaining. The cat is long out of the bag on this, the NYFD will never be able to inspect each and every little shop that works on this stuff.

Cheap insurance: Amazon.com: FLASLD E-bike Battery Safe Bag Explosionproof - Large Capacity Fireproof Lipo Bag for Ebike Battery Charging and Storage (19.3 x 4.3 x 7in) : Toys & Games

After seeing a small LiPo battery spontaneously combust while being charged (it was in a small electric RC airplane) I wouldn't consider charging a LiPo or Li-Ion battery unless it was inside a fire resistant case.

From my experience, living and commuting on bicycles & ebikes in NYC metro since 2013; bicycles & ebikes have been essential to transforming the traffic pattern in NYC and surrounding metro.

Please do not speculate about the specifics of the fire if there is no data with sources provided.

There is enough misinformation about battery caused fires in the news already.

There is no specific evidence that battery that caused this fire is a lithium battery, any other type of battery or something else; it just happen that fire occurred at a ebike shop with prior violations.

“It is very clear that this was caused by lithium-ion batteries and e-bikes. There is a very large number of both batteries and e-bikes. This location is known to the fire department, we have written violations at this location before, and we have conducted enforcement in this location before,” (Fire) Commissioner Laura Kavanagh said.

That's a good enough source for me.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/20/us/ny...ies/index.html

If you're naive enough to believe ANY fire department can determine the source of the fire at an ebike shop full of different types of batteries within 48 hours; sure, if it makes you sleep better at night.

According to a report from someone who visited the store, they had wooden racks of batteries being charged simultaneously; IMO, even though the Fire Department can't check every shop (for instance if it's in somebody's apartment), when they locate a problem, they should have the authority (by law) to shut the place down (that is lock it down and get rid of the batteries).

I'm reporting this; you should be able to speculate on anything that you want .

Thank you; I ordered one @ $21.24 with discount. If it seems well made, I'll order another.

I know about those bags from flying model airplanes, but I wonder how well they would work for an ebike battery.

We don't allow people to make up their own rules for this forum. As long as a post doesn't violate the rules, we aren't going to do anything.

I never knew about those bags, I used to race RC cars. Smaller batteries but I still do drones occasionally, maybe I will look into a bag.

here's the pic from yesterday's NYT

/markp

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...246cc6841c.png

The bag arrived and seems to be manufactured well although I wonder whether it could contain the energy from a Li fire. The product has a 4.7 (of 5) rating on Amazon, but hasn't been "tested" by any of the reviewers. One individual put the batteries from his wife's and his bikes in the bag when riding on a ferry since the ferry didn't allow bikes with batteries attached, so at least it "works" for that. If it can contain a Li fire, it's the deal of the century IMO.

Luna sent me fire ******ant bag with my battery. Nice unit, custom fit to the battery. I would never put the battery inside the bag while charging, holds too much heat. Heat is the thing that causes battery fires.

Instead, I put the fire bag in the bottom of my 40 mm grenade ammo can and charge it outside. Keep a bucket of water near by just in case. The ammo can is excellent for storing the battery in the house during the winter months

40MM Used Ammo Cans | Ammo Can Man

https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server1...00.500.jpg?c=2

More to the problem.
 

Cat0020 is right. Even the article I read that matches the picture just above this post said that the actual cause was still UNKNOWN at the time the report was made. Many of you have seen battery fires. Now look at the pile on the street. Any evidence of a runaway lithium fire there?? NO!!

All those LEV's still have tires. None of them are scorched. I believe all of them to have been removed from the overcrowded store to get to the fire area. It was written that the owner of the shop was cited for leaving batteries on chargers overnight. After that citation he shuts them all off before leaving the store. I have no reason to doubt him. I think they will find a bad cord or other typical electrical fault that started the fire. Sadly the fire did kill others above the store. It could have been the deli having a fire and cause the same deaths.

Just the presence of LiIon batteries has made the chicken littles run out and cry!

My personal opinion was confirmed in a picture of a shop (un-named) that had a bunch of bikes and batteries LOCKED to wooden shelving and being charged with chargers plugged into cheap outlet strips. THATS your typical fire! But since all of that is locked together, the building would burn down quickly since there is no way to remove bikes or batteries quickly. Secondly, all those batteries are Silverfish style, that are only slightly newer than the rack style. I think these batteries are long past their power stage and are now only heaters because of their high internal resistance. If the outlet strip doesnt catch fire first, THOSE batteries will!

My local paper in Medina, OH published that story on that store. The story is poorly written with very little factual information other than there was a fire and people got hurt. I have written to a number of people writing about battery fires asking for a reply, but to date nobody has returned my email. Use your own batteries carefully like they should be.

-SP

Pretty fascinating discussion about e-batteries (including cause(s) of fires) on electrek (Wheel-E podcast). Luke Workman always has fascinating things to say (IMO).

Why does it seem like NYC has more ebike fires than anywhere?

That's discussed in the podcast above.

Luna's "potted" batteries are discussed in the podcast. The media not only makes the battery less likely to start on fire, it impedes propagation. Unfortunately Luna is only providing them with their bikes and/or kits now AFAIK.

More ebikes than anywhere most likely.

Yeah the potted battery is nice. Mechanically very sound, although I imagine unrepairable if a cell or two goes out. I bought mine at the start of the pandemic, they completely ran out of inventory a short time later and have yet to recover.

I don't know why people get so defensive at the idea this fire being caused by a battery fire. An unfortunate reality of batteries, I don't care how well they are made or how carefully users follow the safety procedures.

I also don't understand people's preoccupation with no unattended charging. Most chargers time out or otherwise turn themselves off once the battery is charged. I do take the precaution of charging my battery inside the ammo can while it sits in the garage, but I sure as shooting don't sit in the garage and watch it throughout the cycle. I'm lucky, my battery is easily removable, but many have to be charged while still on (in) the bike. If doing that is somehow irresponsible, then what you are saying is bike batteries are too dangerous for general consumption. That is clearly not the case.

There are always risks with any form of stored energy.

I got one when Luna first manufactured them four or so years ago, but gave it to my son with a BBS02 hardtail. Their "magnetic" system for attaching the battery to the frame was superb. However, they seem to have departed from the battery business; probably it's easier making money selling SurRons and Talarias.

Is there a link to the podcast?

Then start with people who smoke. The fear mongering about a fire from a smoker falling asleep in their bed or chair resulting in laws requiring the use of highly carcinogenic flame ******ants on furniture and pajamas.

Fires happen which is why we have fire departments.