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Growing pain for e-bikes.

Old 12-27-23, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
Banned! Why 2023 saw more e-bike and e-scooter bans than ever before

https://electrek.co/2023/12/26/banne...n-ever-before/
Simply put, irresponsible operation of e-bikes and e-scooters will almost surely result in an over-reaction. When you are an unwanted minority, that's the way it tends to work.
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Old 12-29-23, 09:37 AM
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Just some thoughts...

I was out on Christmas Eve on my g-bike. Not too many e-bikes around now that it's gotten colder. I ride regularly and in the warmer weather I see quite a few e-bikes in my area but I seem to be the only g-bike around.

I'm working on my e-bike. But in the meantime I consider myself a representative of Class 2 throttled g-bikes. I follow the Rules-of-the-Road religiously. I travel cautiously, courteously, quietly and especially slowly around children (and elderly adults too). I get smiles and waves (look at the old guy riding that thingy) from curious kids, parents unloading groceries and even elderly couples out for a walk. I never ride the trails with my Class 2, I'm always on the streets and roads.

I think I'm indicative of most adults riding a motorized bicycle. The 'freedom' you feel when riding a motorized bicycle is not unlike the 'freedom' you feel riding a motorcycle. It's a part of what makes them desirable. I've driven motorcycles most of my life but not any more. Things happen too fast for me now. But I can still handle two wheels at 15mph just not the pedaling.

I see little difference between being in an accident at 20mph with an e-bike or with a pedal bicycle. If you want to set weight restrictions then include all bicycles and the rider's weight. Accidents can happen both ways. I don't want to be hit by a car or a pedal cyclist doing 18mph or whacked by a pedestrian wielding walking poles. Learning and following the Rules-of-the-Road should be a requirement for EVERYONE using the road's surface. Make the Rules-of-the-Road ubiquitous like baseball scores.

And for the trails, don't tell me you haven't seen pedestrians stop, talk and block both lanes when 2 or more get together with their kids and/or dogs? More than once, Grandma and I have had to walk around groups of teenagers clowning and blocking the path.

E-bikes and g-bikes are never going to be for everyone. We can kill off the e-bike and g-bike experience with aggressive or unfair rules and regulations, license, plates and/or insurance. But if we do, we'll only be cheating ourselves out of some inexpensive freedom, fun and transportation. What I'm saying is, be nice, follow the Rules-of-the-Road and blend in. Then hopefully most of this anti-motorized bicycle hate will disappear.
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Old 01-03-24, 05:31 PM
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E-bikes can make curtesy easier

After riding my recumbent e-bike now for 2 years on MUP trails with many pedestrians and dogs, I have not had any problems. Perhaps it is my advancing age, but thinking back to my non-electric biking days, it was all about maintaining momentum, and there was a reluctance to brake heavily when approaching pedestrians and other obstacles. Now, with the maximum speed in Canada set at 32km/hr. (20mph) for e-bikes, non e-bikes often wiz past me. But my e-bike now allows me to brake, slow down and chat with pedestrians, pet their dogs, and then carry on my way knowing that I can get back up to cruising speed in a few seconds without superhuman power expenditure.
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Old 01-05-24, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dayco
Just some thoughts...
...
E-bikes and g-bikes are never going to be for everyone. We can kill off the e-bike and g-bike experience with aggressive or unfair rules and regulations, license, plates and/or insurance. But if we do, we'll only be cheating ourselves out of some inexpensive freedom, fun and transportation. What I'm saying is, be nice, follow the Rules-of-the-Road and blend in. Then hopefully most of this anti-motorized bicycle hate will disappear.
This is well-reasoned, but assumes basic human decency. These days however, there is the "me first" selfish, entitled attitude that has pervaded most people under the age of 40 or 45. There is the belief or attitude that the roads are for cars and trucks and that cyclists don't belong; they should be thankful that someone doesn't hit them for daring to be on "their" road. I think it comes from kids not having to walk or ride bikes past the age of 16 and getting rides everywhere.

I grew up in a single car household. Even when I was old enough to drive and I was a responsible kid, I only got to take the car under extreme circumstances, after a lot of negotiating. The car was not a kid's toy, it was what allowed my mom to support the family. Therefore, I walked or rode my bike everywhere. I worked as much as I could, but it was still not enough to afford a basic car and insurance. The result is that now I have some empathy for cyclists and pedestrians that today's entitled kids don't have.
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Old 01-05-24, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Smaug1
The result is that now I have some empathy for cyclists and pedestrians that today's entitled kids don't have.
I don't think kids today are all that bad, but I would agree that the fact that many of us older folks rode bicycles a lot for basic transportation did leave us with more respect for cyclists.
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Old 01-05-24, 03:32 PM
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People hate bicyclists, and the older they are the hotter the hate. Self-propelled, electric, steam-driven matters not, they DO NOT WANT YOU CLOGGING THEIR STREETS WITH YOUR DUMB PEDALED DEVICES.

Bicyclists fussing amongst ourselves about what kind of two-wheeler is acceptable and what is not, only helps them.

Signed,
Dad
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Old 01-05-24, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c.
I don't think kids today are all that bad, but I would agree that the fact that many of us older folks rode bicycles a lot for basic transportation did leave us with more respect for cyclists.
I agree on both points.

I recently drove by my old grade school and had to do a double-take. Where were the bike racks? There used to be two huge areas for that. I remember one clearly because I walked past it all the time going to school (we were just a few houses away.) I did finally find a spot for bicycles, but there were only a few bike racks and a few bicycles there. One baseball diamond and the old bike rack area have been replaced by a parking lot. And we wonder why we have an obesity problem with kids. Hmmmm ...

Apparently there has been a huge shift. In 1969, nearly half of kids aged 5-14 rode their bikes to school. By 2009, that was down to 13 percent. Oddly, younger people are also getting their drivers licenses later and somewhat fewer numbers aren't even ever getting a license. I guess many of them got used to being driven by their parents and continue to opt for alternatives where other people do the driving.

But back on topic. Where I live it seems that drivers are generally amicable toward cyclists. In neighboring cities, that can vary quite a bit. And the state as a whole isn't very good. I'm happy to see more and more people adopting e-bikes in my town though. We have significant hills and the ebikes make cycling much more accessible to the many residents who just want to bike around town and have no desire to don lycra and become a "cyclist." On the last climb home today I was passed by a couple pedaling easily by on their mid-drive ebikes. I'm happy to see it.
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Old 01-08-24, 08:14 AM
  #108  
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NREL kicks e-bikes outside due to battery fears. Could it do better?

https://electrek.co/2024/01/08/why-t...lectric-bikes/
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Old 01-08-24, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dayco
Just some thoughts...

I was out on Christmas Eve on my g-bike. Not too many e-bikes around now that it's gotten colder. I ride regularly and in the warmer weather I see quite a few e-bikes in my area but I seem to be the only g-bike around.

I'm working on my e-bike. But in the meantime I consider myself a representative of Class 2 throttled g-bikes. I follow the Rules-of-the-Road religiously. I travel cautiously, courteously, quietly and especially slowly around children (and elderly adults too). I get smiles and waves (look at the old guy riding that thingy) from curious kids, parents unloading groceries and even elderly couples out for a walk. I never ride the trails with my Class 2, I'm always on the streets and roads.

I think I'm indicative of most adults riding a motorized bicycle. The 'freedom' you feel when riding a motorized bicycle is not unlike the 'freedom' you feel riding a motorcycle. It's a part of what makes them desirable. I've driven motorcycles most of my life but not any more. Things happen too fast for me now. But I can still handle two wheels at 15mph just not the pedaling.

I see little difference between being in an accident at 20mph with an e-bike or with a pedal bicycle. If you want to set weight restrictions then include all bicycles and the rider's weight. Accidents can happen both ways. I don't want to be hit by a car or a pedal cyclist doing 18mph or whacked by a pedestrian wielding walking poles. Learning and following the Rules-of-the-Road should be a requirement for EVERYONE using the road's surface. Make the Rules-of-the-Road ubiquitous like baseball scores.

And for the trails, don't tell me you haven't seen pedestrians stop, talk and block both lanes when 2 or more get together with their kids and/or dogs? More than once, Grandma and I have had to walk around groups of teenagers clowning and blocking the path.

E-bikes and g-bikes are never going to be for everyone. We can kill off the e-bike and g-bike experience with aggressive or unfair rules and regulations, license, plates and/or insurance. But if we do, we'll only be cheating ourselves out of some inexpensive freedom, fun and transportation. What I'm saying is, be nice, follow the Rules-of-the-Road and blend in. Then hopefully most of this anti-motorized bicycle hate will disappear.
I've been riding my "g-bikes" for a while never any problems, I barely get noticed, they have such a small visual footprint people basically perceive them as a bicycle. I cruise casually on them and follow the rules of bicycles. My 50+ VeloSolex is so quiet I can hear the birds chirping, love taking it to the park for coffee. I also have e-bikes, recumbent trikes and mountain bikes, love them all. There is a special feeling getting propelled down the road on a bicycle with these small motors.

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Old 01-08-24, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by FREEBIRD1
I've been riding my "g-bikes" for a while never any problems, I barely get noticed, they have such a small visual footprint people basically perceive them as a bicycle. I cruise casually on them and follow the rules of bicycles. My 50+ VeloSolex is so quiet I can hear the birds chirping, love taking it to the park for coffee. I also have e-bikes, recumbent trikes and mountain bikes, love them all. There is a special feeling getting propelled down the road on a bicycle with these small motors.

Yes, crows are loud!

Granted that you like to take your gasoline engine operated (?) bicycle to the park, I wonder if the other people in the park using only their legs enjoy your transportation as much as you do.

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Old 01-08-24, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick_D
People hate bicyclists, and the older they are the hotter the hate. Self-propelled, electric, steam-driven matters not, they DO NOT WANT YOU CLOGGING THEIR STREETS WITH YOUR DUMB PEDALED DEVICES.

Bicyclists fussing amongst ourselves about what kind of two-wheeler is acceptable and what is not, only helps them.

Signed,
Dad
Totally geographically dependent. We’ve ridden all over the US and there are dramatic differences in car driver behavior. And it’s also changing for the better everywhere probably due to the prevalence of e-bikes.

you can have a positive impact on this by working local law enforcement and legislators. I’ve ridden on the road for about a decade now with a camera and when I have issues with a motorist I take action with the video. It’s not hard and it will result in behavior changes in both LE and driver behavior. One driver cited leads to behavior changes in all they talk to. I have numerous “scalps” using this method and I have noticed behavior changes in my locale.

Originally Posted by cat0020
NREL kicks e-bikes outside due to battery fears. Could it do better?

https://electrek.co/2024/01/08/why-t...lectric-bikes/
They’re going to have to and they should lead the way. But the issue with batteries is not a canard, it is a real problem. Go ask your fire department.

overall I think e-bikes are a great thing. I do think Class 2 e-bikes should be treated the same as mopeds and I don’t think they belong on MUP paths. They are essentially electric mopeds and really not bicycles per se. Most of the people on class 2 e-bikes are riding far faster than their bike handling skills can handle and when they get in trouble in bike handling that is when serious problems arise. Seen it a a distressing number of times.

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Old 01-08-24, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by FREEBIRD1
I've been riding my "g-bikes" for a while never any problems, I barely get noticed, they have such a small visual footprint people basically perceive them as a bicycle.
I've only seen e-bikes locally in the last couple of years, but for a decade or more prior to that we had a small number of g-bikes cruising around as there was a local guy who assembled and sold them. Riders would use them on bike paths and lanes where available without any problem or concern. They're a bit of a novelty so they might draw slight notice, but they certainly never seemed to bother anyone.
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Old 01-08-24, 11:24 AM
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I stay off walking/bike trails in the park, the Solex is so quiet I can carry on a conversation a few feet away. I get approached a lot by walkers and bicyclist all the time to chat about the gas bicycles, some even remember the Solex ( they were the e-bike of their time). The China kit bike has high gearing, and putts along making no more noise than a small car. I've let a few cyclist and walkers take them for a spin, so yes that actually enjoyed them as much as me,
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Old 01-08-24, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
NREL kicks e-bikes outside due to battery fears. Could it do better?

https://electrek.co/2024/01/08/why-t...lectric-bikes/
That is some lazy stuff by that fire marshall, especially considering he works for the National Renewable Energy Laboratory. He's just covering his ass and making it easy to implement.
It's also worth noting that he banned eBikes indoors, but not necessarily their batteries or chargers, so there's a loophole.
It would have been smarter to just follow NYC's lead and require that all eBikes, batteries and charges be properly UL Listed.

[MORE]
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Old 01-08-24, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan K
Yes, crows are loud!

Granted that you like you gasoline engine operated (?) bicycle to the park, I wonder if the other people in the park park using only their legs enjoy your transportation as much as you do.
I know I wouldn't want gasoline powered vehicles on a cycle path. The whole reason to be on MUPs and cycle paths is to avoid gas powered and throttled vehicles. I don't want to see, hear or smell them.
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Old 01-08-24, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert C
I teach at a middle school and what passes for "education" in "traffic safety & laws" is not what you want. The kids are taught to ride on the sidewalks, opposed to traffic. If no sidewalk is available, they are to ride facing traffic in the gutter portion of the street. Yes, this leads to the kids popping in and out of the street as they move around parked cars.

In my opinion, it is incredibly unsafe, but it is what they are taught to do.
I'd lay down a little lottery money that you are associated with the Shawnee Mission School District.
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Old 01-08-24, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
I know I wouldn't want gasoline powered vehicles on a cycle path. The whole reason to be on MUPs and cycle paths is to avoid gas powered and throttled vehicles. I don't want to see, hear or smell them.
Yeah, I think the signs that say "No motorized vehicles" at the path entrances DO include retrofit engines for bicycles, but exclude Class 1 or 2 eBikes.

Even so, I'd rather have a considerate guy with a gBike than a jerk on an eBike or mBike. ;-)
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Old 01-08-24, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Smaug1
Yeah, I think the signs that say "No motorized vehicles" at the path entrances DO include retrofit engines for bicycles, but exclude Class 1 or 2 eBikes.

Even so, I'd rather have a considerate guy with a gBike than a jerk on an eBike or mBike. ;-)
I still wouldn't want a gas powered moped on the trails I do appreciate considerate people but driving a gas vehicle on a MUP that isn't for gas vehicles is not considerate even if their behavior while on the vehicle is. Throttled vehicles of any kind do not belong on a pedestrian path. If it were a dirt bike track go for it whatever but if the intent is primarily those using their bodies to move forward then throttled vehicles of any kind should not be there.
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Old 01-17-24, 04:56 PM
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Some info about battery related fires in NYC:
No, e-bike fires are not a ‘leading cause of death’ in NYC

https://electrek.co/2024/01/15/no-e-...-death-in-nyc/
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Old 01-31-24, 07:15 AM
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Congress finally agrees on electric bike bill – but not the one everyone wanted

https://electrek.co/2024/01/30/congr...eryone-wanted/
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Old 01-31-24, 08:25 AM
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Do you agree with the editorials you have posted which argue that regulation is necessary?
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Old 01-31-24, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c.
Do you agree with the editorials you have posted which argue that regulation is necessary?
I agree with the following statement in the article:
The importance of the issue has arisen partly due to an actual increase in e-bike fires,
but also largely due to a media frenzy that has blown the issue out of proportion.
While e-bike fires do occur in the US, they represent one of the lowest risks of all forms of transportation.
Many more cyclists are killed by cars than people who are killed by e-bike batteries occasionally catching fire.
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Old 01-31-24, 12:18 PM
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Old 02-13-24, 01:07 PM
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Dutch police found a way to test e-bike power on the side of the road

https://electrek.co/2024/02/13/dutch...e-of-the-road/

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Old 02-15-24, 12:59 PM
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Watch out: New Jersey bill to require all e-bike riders to register, get insurance


https://electrek.co/2024/02/15/watch...get-insurance/
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