Electric vs motorcycle
 

Hey guys, I am very new to the concept of an electric bike and have never owned one. I do, however, ride motorcycles, quite often. I was recently looking at some electric bikes, but the prices seemed fairly astronomical. This led me to wonder what the advantage of buying an electric electric bike over a plane motorcycle would be as the motorcycle can commute further runs on gas goes faster, etc. etc.. Thanks.

A plane motorcycle can fly but would probably be impractical for other things and you would need a pilots license and all of that. If the wings folded they would probably still take up quite a bit of space leaving no room for motorcycle panniers or carrying stuff and it would probably be ridiculously heavy

An e-bike is a bicycle that gives you assistance while you pedal. I can ride it most places and does not within its usage have an exceptional negative effect on the planet like a gas powered vehicle would (granted yes there are issues in production of most vehicles and you can charge from non-renewable sources) If I run out of battery I can still pedal it with a motorcycle I cannot pedal it at any point and it will generally weigh quite a bit more probably well over the weight of all of my bicycles combined including my e-bikes and I have about 14 bikes.

A quality bicycle would not be astronomical if it is well supported and made with quality parts all of which will last a long time. The low initial cost stuff is where I would say the prices get astronomical.

As stated above plus ebike riders don't need a mc driver's license, registration tag or insurance. Additionally, they can be taken on trains (or buses) and are much easier to "park". IMO, prices of bicycles and mc's are not comparable for many reasons, including but not limited to, mc's usually aren't sized (S, M, L & XL) and that fewer models are available, so In general, enjoy economies of scale.

It depends on the application. For longer commutes on high speed roads a motorcycle might make more sense. In heavier traffic urban commuting the e-bike gives the maneuverability advantages of a bicycle where motorcycles face the same stalled traffic as cars.

A logical decision can come from certain considerations, such as the distance you will be riding whatever you choose to purchase, are there hill on the way that may be difficult for you to manage with a bicycle (without a motor), and if battery assistance is needed, the type of e-bike you choose will depend on how fit you are to ride.

Beside what others have already mentioned, you may also have monetary advantage in parking a bicycle or e-bike, usually free in most places, whereas motorcycles may cost to park. [At my place of work, about 25 years ago I was paying about $1100/ year for parking my car, and cost for parking a motor cycles was ~$800].

Of course, the anti-fossil fuel folks would say you will be helping the planet by not burning gas. ;)

Been riding performance bicycles for over 50 years+, motos for 38 yrs (intermittently, except full time last 28 yrs)
Noise
weight and handling
Places to ride (yes, also off-road/dirt road) , motos doing frwy are less or not friendly on dirt byways. a well chosen ebike can do most anything which is a fun ride. Interstates/hwys not being one of those (and they are no fun, stressful, serious if you go down on a moto). Interstates/hwys being the exact opposite of what is best about any 2 whls. Droning along is worse than a good poke in the eye.
Comfortable clothing, the appropriate helmet, and a smile on your face with every new vista, is way nicer.
.Motos - are special - they are the tool for covering Long distances on nice byways/sideroads and enjoying every turn/curve, hill, mtn, landscape.
ebike - you get to see more in the places you do go - the slower you go the more you see/notice.
if it's about 'SPEED thrill and the 'dancing' motion of cycling - there is nothing better on the planet than a Moto - no other vehicle.
But it's NOT about SPEED, then by far the best vehicle on the planet (besides your legs/feet) is the bike - just a matter of the ebike over the pasta bike.... (or scone bike... LOL!)
Only really one way to get some understanding - go test ride an ebike...
Only really good thing about Moto, for a nice tour, is having a very nice, sympathico pillion companion along, especially on my Sport bike....
Ride On
Yuri
Sadly I am saying good-bye to my Motos, too many incidents with a-hole cagers (which is a problem on any 2-wheeler)

Which one is right for you kind of depends on your use case. A combustion motorcycle will get you further and faster, but will probably also cost more in terms of recurring expenses:

• eBikes don't need to be registered with the government, nor to have that renewed annually or bi-annually.
• eBikes don't need to be insured (this expense REALLY adds up quickly, but we tend to dismiss it)
• eBikes need much less maintenance; maybe just a new battery pack every 3-5 years, and usual chain maintenance.
• eBikes can be parked anywhere a bicycle can be parked
• eBikes can go on bike trails and multi-use paths, as they are generally not considered motor vehicles.

In the favor of the motorcycle or engine-powered scooter

• There are no concerns (in the US at least) of whether there is a safe route to a given place, as you will keep up with automotive traffic
• Higher speed, longer range and quicker refills
• For the price of a good eBike, you can get a nice used scooter or motorcycle.

If you'll be riding most often in the city, the eBike could very well make more sense. For suburbs and countryside, the motorcycle makes more sense. (IMO)

I've been riding motorcycles for more than two decades, bicycling for more than four decades, ebikes for more than 15 years.
For the last 10 years I've been commuting in NYC metro, with motorcycles, bicycles & ebikes.
I also ride my motorcycle back & forth between my residence from Brooklyn to Valley Forge, PA (120+ miles one way).

Besides the obvious of vehicle licensing, registration & mandatory insurance on motorcycles, ebikes don't require parking space.
If you can properly chain up an ebike up to something solid, that would be enough for theft deterrence.
There is a wide spectrum of pricing in ebikes.

Depending on your budget, distance would want to ride, how heavy you weigh, and the speed you want to travel; that would determine the type & cost of ebikes you might want to consider.

Personally, with my 12 mile, one-way commute in NYC, I've operating an ebike that's below $1.5K for the last 2 years without issues. Only charge my battery once a week with top speed of 25-28 mph. Solid wheels, fat tires, no broken spokes, no flats.
https://i.imgur.com/vMeZjtO.jpg

We are currently living the good ole, e-bike, UNREGULATED DAYS. Soon, very soon, regulations will abound. Age Limits, Speed limits, Power limits, Battery Source Limits, Licensing, and Liability Insurance, are coming. Very much all the regulations applied to Motorcycles will be applied to E-bikes as they transition to the term of "Powered Bicycle" electric or NOT.

But still as you pointed out there is currently Immense savings in cost for fast, horse power rich, e-bikes, even if their power is of limited duration. E-bikes for sure are here to stay.

But these are...

The Good Ole E-Bike Days

I don't know if it was this forum or another, but someone threw up a photo of a current (2023) Honda Super Cub 125cc motorcycle. Current retail for these things is under $4K. A Trek Allant 8s is just over $4K. Honestly, it would be a HARD choice. The Honda excels in EVERY category, including environmental. When you consider all the shortcomings of Lithium Ion power, the shortcomings of such a small, but (high quality) four stroke motor pale in significance. I wouldn't try to drive one Interstate but I would not try to ride an Allant 8s between states either. Attainable e-bikes under $1000 are just about able to take the sting out of hills and headwinds and have their place. E-assist cargo bikes also have their place in the evolving marketplace of human power EV.

I bought a Chinese SuperCub clone back in 2009 for $1300, it was shipped to my driveway from China for free.
It gets well over 90 mpg, can out pace most cars from 0-30 mph (with good shifting footwork), cruises nicely around 40 mph, top's out at about 50-52 mph.
Maintenance is easy, no oil filter, no valve adjustments, just gas & go.
I ride it around NYC for a few years. it does require motorcycle license, annual registration, inspection & insurance.
It's a cheap transport, not many thieves would consider stealing it. I have about 8k miles on it, still rides well.
Then when I got into ebike back in 2009, too... ebikes have come a long way since.
https://i.imgur.com/XAb294P.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/l34RBVn.jpg

I've done 100+ mi. road trips with the SuperCub clone, in one day, packed with 40-50 lb. of gear; mostly side roads, small jaunt of highways, 1.2 gal. of fuel.
https://i.imgur.com/BqhkcAe.jpg

I don't believe the discussion is about e-bikes vs motos.
Motos, you go fast and far with almost no physical effort
E-bikes, not fast, not far with using as much physical effort as one wants.
I see it like that. I have both and yes, my e-bike cost more than my moto.
But I have more fun on my e-bike and spend more hours on it than my moto

Maybe the Motorcycle v/s E-Bike debate is not one of capability but rather one of duration.

E-Bikes just can't go the distance without a recharge. A small gas motorized bicycle could well go over 300 miles with a two gallon can of gas strapped to your back.

But the again...

That's just an Engineering Problem...

The lighter ones that are comfortable to pedal can, just not quickly. Even middleweight ones are reasonable to pedal.
Ironically, when the bikes get more powerful and have bigger batteries, THOSE are the ones that are effectively range-limited, because they're not realistically pedal-able.

But yes, at speed, compare a gBike vs. pedal-able eBike and the gBike will get there faster.

It's about picking one's poison.

It's a good question. I did a couple hundred thousand miles on motorcycles (and have the scars to prove it); now car- and motorcycle free and use bikes.

Motorcycles have vastly greater range and speed. So if you need to regularly get somewhere more than 10-15 miles away, and with limited amount of time to get there, then a bike is not a good solution.

But bicycles can use bike infrastructure, are easier to park, can be carried up stairs, involve physical effort which is healthy and feels good. No registration or license. If most of your trips are just a couple of miles (if you live inside a walkable city), then bike is easier, quicker, and more pleasant.

Decent ebikes are NOT cheaper than motorcycles, so that is not a factor.

In places without bicycle roads and lanes where in any case you are forced to mix with car traffic, probably there is no point to an ebike.
Where I live, with fabulous bike infrastructure, I much prefer to be using that, on whatever vehicle, compared to mixing it up on the regular roads.

That's kind of it from my use case.

Well, it's not just a question of range, or even so much a question of range (you can carry extra batteries). It's a question of speed. If you have a 30 mile daily commute, it's very unlikely you will be willing to do that at 15 or 20 mph every day. That would be a job for a motorcycle (or a car).

I contemplated an ebike for a 20 mile commute with 2/3 being on high speed roads. Decided it would be too slow. Then I decided to retire so it ceased to be an issue. But had I lived in the city I certainly would have bought one as an ebike would have been better than a car for the urban portion of the trip.

Most motorcycles have fuel range of 200 mi.
In between those 200 miles, most likely a rider would stop for food, drink, bathroom breaks, etc..
Not many trips require a rider to sit in the saddle for 2hr. + without stopping.
For many urban areas, 2 hr. + should cover distance of 80 to 100 miles.

For ebikes (or bicycles), 2hr. sitting in the seem rare (to me) without stopping.
Unless you're doing errands good 30 to 40+ miles away.
Let's say you have a battery range of 35 mi. and recharge for battery is 3-6 hours.
To travel 30-40 miles would require at least one recharge.
2 hr. riding plus 3-6 hours charging time every 30-40 miles.
I think until the battery tech advances to allow longer range or the roads are converted to able charge-as-you-ride,
ebikes are not meant for long distance travel in a single sitting.
But I'm happy with ebikes taking over the task of riding my motorcycle on my 10-12 mile one-way commute on a daily basis.

The 20 mile commute to my job required about 25 minutes by freeway, and probably two hours by ebike which probably is the norm for car-centric socal. The ebike route would have been peppered by numerous stops for lights and stop signs. However for local errands a bike or ebike is equal to the task.

I agree. In fact, when battery tech improves to the point that an e-motor can have a +/- 60 mile range, I expect the vestigial pedals will disappear. Motorbikes will be motorbikes and the dubious distinction of electric or petrol will be history.

A motorcycle will last longer, it will take you farther, faster, and more comfortably than an e-bike. A motorcycle is less likely to spontaneously ignite in your garage, it will continue to go 200 or more miles on a tank of gas until the end of its service life, whereas e-bike batteries lose capacity over time. My own e-bike goes less than half as far as it could when it was new (7 years ago), and while I could replace the battery, the $450 price tag is a little steep. I’d rather spend that money on beer.

When it comes to licensing and insurance, those are generally required on e-bikes which have performance levels similar to motorcycles. As the e-bike market grows, there will be more accidents and injuries, and calls to license and insure e-bikes. Roads require tax money to keep them maintained, and unlicensed, unregistered, and largely untaxed vehicles aren’t going to provide those funds. There was a video on YouTube attempting to explain that cyclists actually paid more in taxes than car drivers, but after looking at the figures, it appears one of Enron’s former accountants is still out there writing more fiction than Stephen King.

As for being “green,” if we use cars as an example, you would need to ride your bike 60% farther than a gas-powered bike before you reached the point you overcome the extra emissions needed to produce the battery and motor components.

What’s more, e-bikes are still rapidly evolving, meaning the bike you buy today will be technologically obsolete in short order (like mine). If you are one of those consumers who upgrades their bikes as often as they upgrade their phones, because they want the latest features and performance, you’ll likely be going through bikes pretty regularly.

We haven’t had EVs on the market for very long, but their used and worn out components are already being dumped en masse in Chinese landfills. The cost of recycling these components is still much higher than building them from raw materials. A motorcycle is largely aluminum, with some copper, iron, steel, and brass, these materials can be quickly and cheaply recycled and reused. If you are driving a new car today, at least some of the metal in it has DNA from the Ford Model T and A, melted down and reincarnated into many generations of new cars. This is much less the case with EVs.

Spot on.

Yes, but most of human population don't need to travel far to sustain their lifestyle.
In the US, everything most people need to sustain their lives are within 30-50 miles of their house.

That's mainly because motorcycles (& car) have been around longer that people are educated enough to avoid open flames around gasoline.
Education about battery safety need to be as robust as fire safety, but most people who owns ebikes don't have that knowledge yet.
I'd imagine gasoline fires occurs far more than ebike battery fires.

Honestly, how often does anyone need to ride a motorcycle for over an hour distance without stop?
or 200 miles (or more) in one sitting?
Replacing the battery as technology becomes more advanced, (with hundred year of advancement as cars),
I'd imagine by then there would be roads that allow you to charge the battery as you ride or drive.
If batteries don't have to deplete as often, battery life would extend. Replacement battery would be needed less often.

Taxation for roads can be easily replaced by taxing the top 1% of wealthiest in our society,
as it was when interstate highways were built, when taxation of the wealth at more than 40%
without the tax write-offs like private jets, yachts or even race horses.
Don't forget all the off-shore accounts that contribute zero to the taxes collected.
Most of us have to pay 20-30% of our income to taxes, most of top 0.01% are not even paying half that with write-offs.

You can get some exercise on an ebike.

Just those few words spell allot. As we move along, short distance, electric distance, or even beyond transportation and into simple existence, it would appear that Over Population is the inevitable problem...