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New bike performs worse than old?

Old 06-09-24, 04:43 PM
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New bike performs worse than old?

Hi folks,

I recently upgraded (due to theft) my ebike. My previous e-bike had a Bosch Gen2 Speed motor with 700c tires (Continental Contact II 622-47), and a 500Wh battery, whereas the new one has a Bosch Gen 4 Speed motor with 650b wheels (Bontrager E6 27,5x2,40 tires, which are a bit bigger than the Continentals), and a bigger 625Wh battery.

The new bike is 5% heavier but has a sportier geometry. I don’t think I am pedalling faster, but that’s hard to gauge.

For my commute (mostly flat), the new bike is about as fast as the old, but uses a bit more battery % than the old for the same distance. This is disappointing, a bike with a newer motor and significantly bigger battery to get less range. Is the smaller wheel size (650b vs 700c) and the bigger tire to blame here? Could I be having a faulty component somewhere?

If it is the wheel and tires to blame for this lower performance (15-20% lower performance), what did I get as a trade off? A bit faster acceleration from the smaller wheel and a bit more comfort from the bigger tire?

Many thanks in advance for your insights.

Last edited by Fandomii; 06-10-24 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 06-09-24, 05:31 PM
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It is tough to tell, a variation on weight on the bike or geometry can effect it. Wheel size could also effect it. There could be something wrong but more than likely it is just a difference between the new bikes. It is also possible the old bike had less torque 75 vs 85 but that would make the new one a bit easier of a ride but again everything above could be a factor.

Bosch does have a range calculator which is pretty accurate give or take about 5 miles.

if it is truly a significant difference in real world vs range calculator then I might have the shop take a look and talk with Bosch but things like this are hard to really figure out unless quite significant. Though in general with a larger battery you should get longer range.
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Old 06-09-24, 08:40 PM
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I think you did a good job answering your questions but probably should have added the new bike is heavier. Is your position on the new bike the same and/or are you riding faster (these could be factors). The good news is that, if necessary, some of the new Bosch systems have small add-on batteries for longer rides.
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Old 06-09-24, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Fandomii
Hi folks,

I recently upgraded (due to theft) my ebike. My previous evoke had a Bosch Gen2 Speed motor with 700c tires (Continental Contact II 622-47), and a 500Wh battery, whereas the new one has a Bosch Gen 4 Speed motor with 650b wheels (Bontrager E6 27,5x2,40 tires, which are a bit bigger than the Continentals), and a bigger 625Wh battery.

.
it's the tires. I had the same thing though my first bike had Schwalbe Marathon Plus's 38mm they are slow but I can far out accelerate than my Trek Allant 8 with the same tires. they are dogs. going to 40mm Schwalbe g1 speed or teravail 40mm light and supple tires. I got 3mph putting to the same wattage and maybe 8 more miles of range on my commutes. acceleration is much better now too. but still not as zippy. I am running them tubeless. better tires will give you a brand-new bike.
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Old 06-09-24, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 2old
I think you did a good job answering your questions but probably should have added the new bike is heavier. Is your position on the new bike the same and/or are you riding faster (these could be factors). The good news is that, if necessary, some of the new Bosch systems have small add-on batteries for longer rides.
no, it's the tires. I had pretty close to the same setup bikes were within two pounds and the riding position was as the same as I could make it. those tires he has suck so much the ride is harsher and much slower too.
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Old 06-09-24, 10:10 PM
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My ebike came with 2.6" MTB tires for off road riding, but I purchased a 2nd set of wheels and mounted 2.2 Conti RaceKings for blacktop and gravel routes. There is def a difference in battery savings
The gen 4 motor with the Kiox display can make several adjustments for pedal assistance and such. (If you have the Kiox). This might help you save power
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Old 06-09-24, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie
no, it's the tires. I had pretty close to the same setup bikes were within two pounds and the riding position was as the same as I could make it. those tires he has suck so much the ride is harsher and much slower too.
The OP's original statement, questioned the tires, and I agreed with him, then added other factors that could influence the situation. It exhibits a lack of character to deliberately misquote.

Last edited by 2old; 06-10-24 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 06-10-24, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
It is tough to tell, a variation on weight on the bike or geometry can effect it. Wheel size could also effect it. There could be something wrong but more than likely it is just a difference between the new bikes. It is also possible the old bike had less torque 75 vs 85 but that would make the new one a bit easier of a ride but again everything above could be a factor.

Bosch does have a range calculator which is pretty accurate give or take about 5 miles.

if it is truly a significant difference in real world vs range calculator then I might have the shop take a look and talk with Bosch but things like this are hard to really figure out unless quite significant. Though in general with a larger battery you should get longer range.
Indeed the old bike had less torque in the engine. Does that higher torque drive up battery consumption and reduce the effect of any efficiency upgrades from the newer motor?
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Old 06-10-24, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie
no, it's the tires. I had pretty close to the same setup bikes were within two pounds and the riding position was as the same as I could make it. those tires he has suck so much the ride is harsher and much slower too.
The Bontrager E6 Hard-Case Lite sucks that bad? Why does Trek put in ok so many e-bikes… :-(

Can you recommend something significantly better for the same wheel size?
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Old 06-10-24, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Fandomii
The Bontrager E6 Hard-Case Lite sucks that bad? Why does Trek put in ok so many e-bikes… :-(

Can you recommend something significantly better for the same wheel size?
They are tough and hard wearing I guess.

I swapped mine out for Pirelli angels ASAP. Big improvement in comfort and quieter.

https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/...re/140559910/p
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Old 06-10-24, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Fandomii
The Bontrager E6 Hard-Case Lite sucks that bad? Why does Trek put in ok so many e-bikes… :-(

Can you recommend something significantly better for the same wheel size?
I have been using tubeless tires and two of them I used I posted. but they are lightweight tires and get punctures easily. The teravail rampart tire is good maybe use the durable version next as I am getting a fair amount of punctures on the light and supple. I used some tougher tires this winter I can't remember the name. but if you don't need tubeless there are more choices. But it was like a new bike changing the stock tires out. Now I tend to go faster on the trek than I did my bulls. but the bulls was still zippier. I wanted to run Tubeless on it and see how well it performed. but I don't ride it often so it was not worth swapping tires.
going tubless and using the light tires the bike is nice to ride the ride is softer than the stock tires too even with smaller tires and only 40 psi.
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Old 06-10-24, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Fandomii
Indeed the old bike had less torque in the engine. Does that higher torque drive up battery consumption and reduce the effect of any efficiency upgrades from the newer motor?
Originally Posted by Fandomii
The Bontrager E6 Hard-Case Lite sucks that bad? Why does Trek put in ok so many e-bikes… :-(

Can you recommend something significantly better for the same wheel size?
Yes it could effect battery consumption with a bit more power but I don't know that it would be super significant but could be enough to do it.

Because it is a Trek tire so if they put on Schwalbe SuperMotoXs they would be loosing out having to buy tires rather than use stuff in the warehouses.

Obviously I answered the other question assuming you can fit the 2.4s if not I am so far happy with the Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H tires I have on another bike but I haven't put a ton of miles on that bike at the moment.
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Old 06-10-24, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MarcusT
mounted 2.2 Conti RaceKings for blacktop and gravel routes. There is def a difference in battery savings
Thanks for the heads up on the Continental RaceKings ProTection. When my OEM-supplied Johnny Watts are up for replacement, I will seriously consider these as a replacement option.
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Old 06-10-24, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Aushiker
Thanks for the heads up on the Continental RaceKings ProTection. When my OEM-supplied Johnny Watts are up for replacement, I will seriously consider these as a replacement option.
Tire pressure is also a consideration. My off road tires go about 25-28 psi. For the Race Kings, I will do about 40-45 psi
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