‘E-bikes are an e-menace’
 

The ‘Washington Post’'s Rick Reilly writes about his encounter with an e-bike https://www.pressreader.com/usa/arka...82003268614288 or https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...peed-injuries/ if you have a subscription.

They're too fast. 20 mph may be ok for a mature adult, assuming training, but kids should be limited 15 mph, and require training for an e-bike. Kids have poor judgment, and usually cannot manually ride sustained over 15 mph.

Above 20 mph should require motorcycle-level training and license, even for adults. Energy = (1/2) x mass x velocity squared.

I was in Hermosa Beach last week. Manhattan Beach is next to Hermosa Beach, and when I was there the police were aggressively enforcing the speed limit on the beachfront path ("aggressively" = stopping almost all riders going more than 5 over the limit). Nearly all the pulled-over users seemed to be tweens / early teens on Class 2-3 e-bikes.

Riders and e-bike riders completely ignoring traffic control seems to be endemic across many states. I almost had a head-on collision Friday with a fast, unlit, and very angry wrong-way rider.

My son was on his high school bike team. The kids, 14-18, had no problem riding at 18-20mph consistently. On standard bikes. The real issue here is WHY are adults buying e-bikes for kids perfectly capable of riding regular bikes (amid a child obesity epidemic in the USA)? Don't get mad at the kids. They are NOT paying for these e-bikes. BLAME THE PARENTS. And fine the parents if their kid rides one and is caught doing something inappropriate. Fine them massively (for failing to actually parent).

Our neighborhood (and I suspect many others) is experiencing a big increase in the number of children on motorized vehicles. Not just e-bikes, but gas powered 4 wheelers, gas motorcycles, and of course, all the electric vehicles now available. Saw a kid who couldn't have been out of elementary school, flying along our street on a gas powered 4-wheeler, wide open, had to be going over 40 (speed limit 25). another on an electric motorcycle (not an e-bike-is a motorcycle) flies around, also high speed. Many more examples that I won't list all-way too many! Can't believe none of them has gotten hit (yet). At least most of them slow down if we're walking our dogs down the street, but not all do. If/when one gets hit, no doubt the parents will be seeing how much they can sue someone for, instead of looking at themselves for allowing it.

I dunno, a teen (or otherwise) does not require an e-bike to make dangerous manuevers.
Granted some e-bikes weigh close to a ton, so getting mowed down by one can cause serious damage.
When motorists run lights, on the other hand, the consequences prove far worse.
Seems worse things to gripe about - even from an e-bike viewpoint - than a teen breaking the law.

Adults are just kids who have bigger numbers in their age.

Actual E-bikes are not a problem, throttles on e-mopeds and motorcycles, yes, but most people know that and certainly people going fast but that is anyone on anything. Unfortunately like most journalists and politicians they really don't understand the issue. This one sounds like they had been possibly nearly hit by a motorcycle which is not a bicycle and has no pedals and does not belong on shared paths. However because it was electric they lumped it in with e-bikes because they simply didn't understand and they want to make it easy and promote an agenda. That is wrong in so many ways and promotes bad journalism and further hatred of actual e-bikes because they get lumped with the throttled stuff.

However in the end the humans that are the real problem, we as humans pilot these vehicles, build and sell these vehicles and we teach these other humans how to go about the world or not go about the world. If everyone would just act as if there are other people around and we have to all get along, we might just make it.

Not just kids. I almost got hit by an adult riding through a red light (at least 5 seconds after it changed). The kids in my burg ride pretty respectfully except for an occasional one riding 40 mph doing a wheelie. By the way, how many have seen e-bikes that weigh a ton (see comment above)?

Ebikes are the future. They will be the majority of bikes on the road in 10 years. So we'll need to figure it out. Or get rid of slow pedal people from their lanes.

All of the above have no seat belts or harness, no roll cage. So even if they don't hit anyone, if they hit something big enough, the rider will go flying and high probability of death if not wearing a helmet, and paralysis if they live. Just read yesterday, the history of someone I am glad was voted out of office for both views and behavior, was in a wheelchair because on spring break, he was riding as passenger with a friend driving, he was dozing with his feet on the dashboard. Driver nods off and gets into a serious accident. Passenger ends up paralyzed from waist down, unknown if due to being thrown forward if no lap belt, or dash airbag going off under his legs.

It's not the device...it's the operator...

Correct but in the end the article was talking clearly about a motorcycle which is not a bicycle and the only thing relatable to a bicycle is it has two wheels.

I look forward to the point when the reporters will get their terminology straight re. eBikes vs. electric motorcycles. How do we educate them that, just because it has (theoretically) operable pedals it isn't necessarily an eBike?

Banning eBikes because electric motorcycles are being sold to kids under the radar is just so maddening. :mad:

They need to classify things by power, not whether it has pedals.

In my state:
Used to be 10 hp, which is why there were many outboards rated at 9.9 hp.

Do the same in spirit for e-bikes, with accordant power limits. And that should be based on ability for typical riders to climb hills in this town on electric. And that will favor mid-drive, to enable use of the bike gearing, without the bike being overpowered and too fast on the flats, and also e-speed should be governed for a max speed.

Mid-drives aren't ideal for everyone. While they climb better, if your chain breaks you are dead. My trike was hit by an SUV and the front end was crunched and the front wheels bent a little bit but I was still able to get home (slowly and bumpily) using the motor and throttle. My concern about a power limit classification is that you can't tell what power an e-bike is unless you stop and check. So anyone can ride any power e-bike anywhere, even e-motorcycles. Having pedals, even if performative, is a quick indication of a power limitation. I don't want to be riding my e-trike at 10mph along a path and get blitzed by someone on an e moped/motorcycle who pushes the speed when they think no one is going to catch them. If it has pedals, it doesn't go faster than reasonable (with rare home grown exceptions).

Except not the power situation is only a small part of it. It should be about pedals if we are talking bikes. Nobody needs a throttled vehicle on any shared trails nor should they be allowed.
Obviously yes a bike that is above a class 3 is also not needed but generally illegally modified vehicles are sort of banned anyway but really enforcing no throttles will make a big difference. It won't solve all the safety issues but some of those safety issues are not related to the "power" a bike or moped or motorcycle can put out because some of the offenders are not using electric vehicles but a standard road or tri bike so it really ends up being the person atop the bicycle or whatever not the actual vehicle.

I think the max speed and stuff is important though but again illegally modified stuff is generally not allowed most places but never gets enforced or is sometimes selectively enforced in certain communities which doesn't actually solve the problems.

Black walnuts in their big green fruits are a menace. My wife fellover yesterday after riding thru a section littered with them, Her ribs sore today. I had been more worried about the wet leaves. Then the darn nuts came up,

With a capital E, that rhymes with P, that stands for pool!

I'll put that on my calendar for the long distant morning when the shock jocks don't say we all should be prevented / run over / imprisoned / killed for the benefit of the cagers.

my walnut story
 

Re. walnuts being a menace, here's my story:

My last house had a walnut tree in the back yard, so we had lots of squirrels. They were causing trouble; pulling up roofing shingles looking for something underneath to eat, building dreys on the roof and chewing into the house to shack up in the attic for the winter. So I started shooting them with my air rifle. 46 the first partial year I lived there and about 60 the year after. Problem was, no one was cleaning up the walnuts any more. Even eating them and leaving the mess like squirrels do breaks them down so they're not a hazard to step on. (unless barefoot) and I turned my ankle one time trying to mow the lawn. I had to start raking them up after that, because that was still preferable to repairing the house and evicting them from the attic.

Certain riders are a menace on ebikes. As much as I am and have been an advocate for cycling, one can't ignore the increasing danger of inconsiderate behavior on ebikes. They not only affect others on bikes, but pedestrians, and even 4-wheel + motor vehicles.
They are also 'freeing' technology for our younger population. Certainly pedal power bikes are that also, but not with as much appeal as a powered device.
But their use in ways dangerous to others is increasingly causing injury to others and even the riders themselves.
The argument that the problem is the Rider/operator not the ebike is again that false reality/narrative used to circumvent the issue. Yes, The problem is human use of a potentially dangerous article in such fashion that the combination ARE a danger to others.
A quick look at the past underlines that Humans, as a group, are incapable of controlling or Policing themselves, so we have built social structure to provide that.
Too much of that ?
Opinion/feelings/commitment Depends if you've been the subject of this anti-social behavior... or not.
Having had close encounters and observing truly dangerous behavior on e-bikes, I am aware. And even though I continue to advocate consideration for all things Cycling, I know we need to set boundaries on what's acceptable use and 'where'.
it also needs to be addressed 'locally', not State, prolly also not County (except where an area is 'County' governed). Best would be township/city.
I'm all for allowing each person to choose their own level of 'risk', adventure, thrill - whatever you wish to call it. But NOT in such fashion as to now include others who have not agreed to be part of that scenario !
I do a lot of things which others think is 'dangerous' especially 'at my age'... Welcome to their opinion... But I am certain to not include others who have not 'Opted-in' on whatever is doing.
E-bike use at levels and areas where they are dangerous to others, needs to be addressed and 'policed'.
I am actively planning to be part of that for my community.
Ride On
Yuri - yes, I have ebikes, and appreciate them, both for my use and for that of others.

The bigger picture surrounding the "e-bike - danger to humanity story" is the consistently decreasing attention to personal responsibility and the daily risks resulting from technological advances.

Does it matter whether its a skateboard, a hoverboard, inline skates, or etc...... What we are beginning to experience is the erosion of the freedom of the "public space" due to the expansion and extension of "personal space" resulting from new technologies.

Clearly - an individual riding a fifty-plus pound vehicle at 20mph requires far more "public space" than a pedestrian. When you extrapolate the insertion of millions more of these devices into a infrastructure that was usually built for pedestrian speeds - its not hard to see that pushing and shoving - and eventual cursing will begin.

Americans love their freedom - responsibility not so much.

I'm seeing the rental e-bikes, previously pedal-assist only, rapidly converting to no pedals and throttle only. Given the hills here, it's what most customers want, and it lowers the cost of the bike. Where that fits into local and state regs in Seattle WA, I have no idea. The scooters have always been electric only. Both get a whole lot of use from the locals and tourists. Ownership is a better deal for daily riders, but issues with maintenance, theft, storage, and hauling heavy bike up and down stairs and such. But at least the price on e-bikes has gone down a lot, buying one will pay for itself over rentals pretty quick, if using daily.

Most people can see whats coming. Those of us who have motorcycles know the routine...

Age restrictions
Power restrictions
Licensing
Registration
Liability

CA killed the moped industry with regulations, but there's no way I'll get a license or insurance for my "e's". Fortunately, there are many places to ride here where there are no "peacemakers".

I believe you will find that the majority of incidents with e-bikes are not with adults…they are a result of younger folks, with no drivers licenses and parents who are irresponsible and with a “just get the kid what they want” attitude. The crap that goes on in my town is a direct result of these teens with powerful bikes not obeying laws and regulations, and so the hammer comes down on those of us adults. Parents need to wise up and pay attention to their kids’ activities