RoadRanger

Has anyone tried to fab up an enclosure to be able to ride in the rain or snow without wearing rain gear? I'm getting a 1000W front wheel and four U1 gel 35Ah wheelchair batteries (100lbs total) that I hope to add to a $250 Walmart trike. I'd like to be able to replace one of our cars for short trips (<5 miles) and some sort of enclosure would make it a lot more practical. Maybe tent material with a lexan windscreen, clear plastic side and back windows, and a zippered door? I don't expect to need the pedals so can put in some sort of floor. I could even wire in four of the cheap lighter plug electric heaters to keep the frost off the windscreen and supply some minimal heating? Oh, and anyone come across a cheap 48V to 12V converter to run some lights and such?

unime

I don't like the idea of putting a 1kW motor on an upright trike that doesn't lean. The reason it only has one speed is to prevent you from riding it fast and tipping over when you turn. Also, it comes with steel wheels which are marginal at best. Adding an extra 100 lbs of batteries virtually guarantees wheel troubles. And let's talk about brakes: You need really good ones to handle the extra weight and speed. I upgraded the disc brake on my 800W ebike to a 10" rotor when the 6" proved inadequate. I don't believe your trike's brakes are safe for the use you have in mind.

Fully enclosed trikes are called velomobiles and, as far as I know, they are always recumbent.

Doug5150

First Note: In many US states, bicycles are required to have pedals capable of moving the vehicle. I have seen this issue come up with motorized bicycles a few times, in online forums.

Secondly--most of the better velomobiles purposely leave your head exposed, because in rainy or sub-freezing temperatures it's just about impossible to keep a windshield from fogging / frosting up. Some of them have a little roof that overhangs your head, but the front & sides are usually open, or the windshield is removable for that reason.

If you go look in the velomobiles sub-forum of Bentrider online, there's a few people who have done rather nice-looking examples of fairings built from corrugated pvc.

I think you'd find that the heater would suck up a shockingly large amount of your battery power. On the other hand, it may not be necessary--people who have velomobiles often report that they can ride comfortably in sub-freezing weather while wearing comparatively light clothing, because there's no effect of wind chill on their bodies below the neck.

Riding in cold weather seems to be the main reason people put full fairings on trikes. You might suppose that the aerodynamic gains would be significant, but they are usually offset by the weight that the fairing adds.

You could go ask on some DIY-alternative energy forums for this (one example: https://www.solarpowerforum.net ). People with off-grid setups use DC inverters to run regular appliances off of battery power. There's big-capacity, expensive inverters of course--but there may be small ones too, as battery setups are usually done in multiples of 12V.
~

RoadRanger

I plan on hanging the 100 pounds of batteries down as low as possible to lower the center of gravity. Also here in Connecticut there is a 30 MPH speed limit for "a bicycle with a helper motor".
The $250 Walmart trike has alloy wheels. It also has an aluminum frame but doesn't say whether the fork is steel or aluminum? In either case I'll have to use torque arms to prevent the axle from spinning as this motor can generate almost 45 ft/lbs.
The rear drum brake is probably OK and I hope to rig up a dump load for the motor hub for electric braking in addition to the rim brake. I'll add a disk if I have to...
Unfortunately here in Connecticut it seems a bicycle with a helper motor must have a minimum seat height of 26" to be street legal. That law was meant to ban "pocket bikes" from the streets. Anyways thanks for the link, that will give me some ideas.

unime

30 mph is too fast for the Meridian. The powered Izip version has a top speed of 18 mph, which still worries me. And that's without an enclosure raising the CG and adding instability in cross winds.

What you are proposing is too much motor (and battery weight) for the bike to handle.

One source described the wheels as steel - maybe it was an earlier model. Even though they are alloy, they appear to be break under the stress of electric assist loads. [That link confirms my assumption about poor handling (above 20 mph)].

For what its worth, the fork seems to be steel.

A coaster brake for a bike weighing 300+ pounds (including rider) traveling 30 MPH? Better you than me, my friend. Stopping the momentum and kinetic energy you are proposing takes serious brakes.

RoadRanger

You'd really freak out if you saw me zipping down the street at 30MPH on my 8" wheeled scooter.
The batteries will lower the CG way more than any lightweight enclosure will raise it. I'll certainly have to look at what crosswinds will do to it!
I might put in heavier spokes right away, I'll see what the stock ones look like. Maybe a proper tightening and cross tying will be enough?
That makes me a bit more optimistic that the front wheel won't depart . I once broke a front fork on an ultralight aircraft when I landed hard - seatbelt cracked one of my ribs when the front end dug into the grass strip .
It's not a coaster brake - it is a real hand operated drum. I'll be checking out the brakes and upgrading if needed before I get myself into any "gonna die" situations . I might start out with only a 36V pack which will get me down closer to 20MPH...

unime

Sorry, but you are wrong about that. Inline skates and skateboards have small wheels and can handle well at that speed. The trike you are looking at, IMHO, not so much.

Butted spokes are the best choice for durable wheels. In this case, 14g double butted would be a good choice. Touching up new wheels (including "stress relieving") is usually a good plan. Cross tying spokes does nothing.

RoadRanger

Do you think the geometry of the trike is off or something? My experience has been that larger wheels are generally better at higher speeds.[/QUOTE]
I read that cross tying helps the wheels withstand torque? Might be a good idea as the rear drum brake can torque the rear wheel hubs quite a lot assuming it is any good? Thanks for the advice on the 14 gauge double butted spokes!

I do have a MIG welder so maybe I'd be better off welding up a new frame...

unime

[QUOTE=RoadRanger;7720902]Do you think the geometry of the trike is off or something?

Have a look at these three wheeled vehicles. They either lean or have a low center of gravity (and, except for the skateboard, wide wheelbase). Your trike with its high CG and relatively narrow wheelbase doesn't fit. An obvious comparison is with 3 wheel ATVs, which were removed from the US market due to safety concerns.

I find that I typically brake and turn harder when riding my 800W ebike compared to a regular bicycle, simply because it has 3 or 4 times the kinetic energy. Add to that automobile drivers who do not anticipate your speed (and cross intersections in your path, cut you off making lane changes, and make the dreaded right turn when you are in their blind spot) and I believe good handling should be a requirement for ebikes capable of speeds above 20 mph.

What about skateboarders who travel at 55 mph? Large wheels have advantages going over rough terrain and have lower rolling resistance (other factors held constant), but small wheels work fine on smooth surfaces.

Here's the word on tying and soldering from the man who wrote the book on bicycle wheels [Jobst Brant, "The Bicycle Wheel"]. The book, by the way, explains how spokes break and why butted spokes are more durable.

RoadRanger

Fortunately for me, they are not required in Connecticut.
I think it wouldn't take much to defog in rain, a 120W heater should do it?
Thanks, I'll have a look.
I'd definitely cut my range to 1/3 because of the effect of the cold on the SLA batteries plus the 480W draw of the four heaters. I suspect I could get away with less heat than that as I'm not so interested in heating the cabin but just keeping the windscreen defrosted.
I'm firstly concerned with riding in the rain without having to put on and take off rain gear. My trips are usually only 1-3 miles and the time and bother of hassling with raingear (or just the possibility of rain) has me choosing the car over the bike or scooter. In the winter I'd still take the car if it is actively snowing but would like to take the trike on clear cold days if I can keep the windscreen clear...

RoadRanger

Those 3 wheel ATVs are a hoot! OK, since you're an expert and all what width would you say is a minimum with the constraint that the seat must be 26" high to be legal here in CT? Obviously the lower those 100lbs of batteries can be mounted the better for CG - what should I keep as a minimum ground clearance?
I'm pretty sure I'm a much more defensive driver than you are. I've ridden and driven vehicles with from 2 to 18 wheels up to 40 tons. I've never had a close call on my little scooter as I just don't get into situations like you describe. There really isn't ever any good reason to be riding in someone's blind spot or to not slow down a bit when you are crossing an intersection.
Thanks!

unime

I honestly don't know what geometry makes a trike safe - it is somewhere between high performance recumbents (which I am told handle well) and a kid's bike with training wheels. I'd suggest looking at trikes meant for the kind of speeds you are considering.

Yeah, but my dad can beat your dad!

I'm one of those cyclists who actually stops at stop signs, but slowing down at an intersection when I have the right of way strikes me as silly. In the situation I was referring to, a car was stopped at a stop sign as I approached the intersection with no stop sign in my direction. The car took off at an inopportune moment, on a collision path, so I had to slow down quickly. Honestly, you can't trust drivers regardless of how defensively you ride. If you are traveling fast, as you will with a 1kW motor, you need equipment that handles well. If you want to avoid injury, that is.

RoadRanger

Kudos to you, I thought I was the only one . I even do that on my Harley.
I seem to remember a 20MPH intersection speed limit law in Massachusetts (where I grew up) but can't find it at the moment. I generally slow down to 5MPH below the speed limit when passing through an intersection if there are any vehicles waiting on my right. By "slow down" I do not mean that I generally brake, just coast my speed down and "cover" the brakes. I do that no matter what I'm riding/driving.
I chose the 1KW motor for its hill climbing ability with a heavy trike and chose the 24" size as that limits me to 500W at 30MPH which should be about the power I need to sustain that speed on the flat. I would have gone with a 22" if it was available and might end up changing to a smaller wheel anyways if I need more torque to optimize my average speed over the slightly hilly roads I normally travel. There are a couple hills nearby that I go around when on my bicycle now. On my scooter I only hit 30MPH (top speed) on roads with large paved shoulders and good visibility at the few intersections (AKA most of the one mile from my house to downtown) and usually only do 20-25 on those roads anyways as drivers get confused as to whether they can pass or not when I'm traveling at motor vehicle speeds. I keep meaning to put a big "Its a Moped, Stupid!" sign on the back .

recumelectric

Just wear a raincoat or a parka. You can change shoes and pants at work. You've got enough voltage to carry the stuff. It's not that big of a deal, especially for 3 miles or less.

RoadRanger

Actually I'm "semi-retired" so "going to work" is not the issue. Trips would be down to the local supermarket, Lowes, WalMart, etc. Actually I was originally thinking of getting a Xebra Zap car and possibly becoming a dealer for them. An NEV (federal classification "Neighborhood Electric Vehicle") would be more suitable but they are not street legal here (yet?), the Xebra can probably be registered as a motorcycle as it is in most other states. A new law here in Connecticut went into effect this month that opens up the definition of a moped to max 5HP from the old 2HP and removes the 30MPH speed limit. Mopeds are street legal with out registration and no pedals needed. I was trying to find or build an enclosed trike that met the old definition of a moped, something mostly as capable as the Xebra for short single person trips. I think something like this would be acceptable to a lot more people here than an open trike. I understand most folks on this forum are willing to give up a lot of comfort to be "green" or just to get exercise but the average couch potato American would sell their mother before they would pass over their car for a 3 mile trip to the store in the rain on a bicycle. Actually with the new law their exists an opportunity to create (and market?) what I'm calling an SSV (State Specific Vehicle), a 5HP peak enclosed one (or more?) person trike for use (and sale?) only in Connecticut as a street legal unregistered moped. Three hub motors with 200lbs of gel SLA batteries (48V x 100AH) would kick it along pretty good I think ? Question is how much weight can you actually carry on a bicycle wheel?

recumelectric

I have no clue how much weight in batteries can be hauled on a bicycle wheel. Sorry.

Sounds like you are trying to invent a whole new thing in terms of electric transportation. Kudos.

RoadRanger

Well, I'm assuming tandem wheels can carry 200+LBS each so three heavy spoke wheels should be able to do 600lbs easy?

countersTrike

The latest.....

unime

How about enclosing only the bottom half and modifying a rain poncho to attach like a kayak's spray skirt?

As for wheels, the 200 extra pounds can easily be handled by decent quality tandem, mountain bike, or trials wheels, but I'd still try my best to avoid potholes.

By the way, you are right to want power for climbing hills.

MI7D1

I purchased a velomobile and have added electric assist. More photos can be seen on my flickr account. www.flickr.com/wmbates/sets It's very easy to set it up to do more than 30mph on the flat. I did that at the Portland International Raceway last May. The trick is seting it up to get speed going up hills. The bike weighs 77lbs empty. I have four 12V 18Ah AGM batteries at 12lbs each. The weight is the deal breaker for me on hills. I'm using a direct drive rear hubmotor. I've thought about using a inline chain drive but the noise is too much for me inside. I need as quite of a drive system as possable. Soon I hope to try a geared hubmotor and see how that goes.