Stormsteed

Hello folks..

Been lurking for a few weeks as I've been doing some research on the internet for an ebike. I had the occasion to ride a Torker a couple of weeks ago and really enjoyed it. But at $1500 and no bells or whistles (literally!), including what appeared to me to be a cheap-o seat that had to be adjusted with an allen key (they had to go run search for one so they could adjust the bike for me), I must admit I wasn't too impressed with what you got for the money. And the warranty was only 3 months if I recall correctly.

Well, that's where you come in, I guess. I'm a little clueless as to what constitutes a good price and what doesn't for what you are buying. The bikes by eBIKEcology on ebay (https://stores.shop.ebay.com/eBIKEcology__W0QQ_armrsZ1) sound great on paper and the price is right, but I don't know if I'll be disappointed in a year. Aside from a few manufacturers (I've learned) it seems that pretty much everything is made in China. China has come a long way in terms of upping their quality... several years ago I bought a gas scooter and I was quite happy with it for several years and then resold it. So, I'm realistic about that.

I don't really want to build a bike. Although I can probably figure it out, I'd prefer a turn-key model (take it home and ride it!) as I don't have a lot of time to tinker. I prefer an upright comfortable riding style as opposed to a hunched over 'racing' style (those days are over for me), and I don't want the higher cross bar typical of a mountain bike style either as I have difficulty lifting my leg to mount those types of bikes. I'll be using this around town mostly for 10-15 miles at a time. On occasion, I may hop to the next town over which is 12 miles one way.

The Torker that I tried had the PAS (passive assist system is it called?), as well as a thumb throttle. For the most part, I pedaled, but the motor assisted me gently resulting in me gliding forward easily and with less effort than had I not had the assist. If I wished, I could do the thumb throttle (while pedaling) and get an extra boost above the normal assist. The thumb throttle only would only work if I was pedaling, even if it was only 'pretend' pedaling. It was a nice ride and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

So, sorry for the long intro post... but I'd really appreciate some feedback on
- Good quality bike source. Testimonials welcome! If you're a rider like me, what's working for you?
- Motor type, pros and cons (i.e. PAS only, throttle only, combination thereof).
- Has anyone tried the ebay bikes by eBIKEcology
- On the longshot chance that I did buy a conversion kit, are those PAS type or just manual throttle assist?

BTW, I am out of shape and older. I am hoping the bike will encourage me to get out of the car and start getting in shape. In the beginning, the benefits I seek from the ebike is to allow me to get to where I'm going without 'killing myself', and to help me get in shape over time.

Thanks in advance for all replies.

GeoKrpan

Go to the Walmart site and find the Ezip Trailz bike made by Currie.
Read the testimonials.
The complete bike sells for $349. You can have it delivered to your local Walmart with no shipping charge.
There is a men's and women's model, the women's model having a low stepover height.
Many people use the Currie products and they work well even at such a low price point.

Stormsteed

Thanks, but I forgot to mention that I would prefer not to get the lead acid batteries and the heavier bike. I realize cost will be higher, but I'd prefer to get a bike that weighs around 50-60 lbs. which is what the newer Li-ion bikes seem to weigh.

crackerdog

Are you in the US? I have been impressed with Ecospeed for recumbents (I have one) and now they have come out with one that fits upright bikes. It is mostly made in the U.S. but I am pretty sure the motor is made in China. The perfect ebike for me would be an electric Xtracycle. You can haul stuff when you need to so it makes use of the extra power of the motor.

Stormsteed

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I'm in Northern California. I see what you mean about the Xtracycle... we have several of those around town and they look slick. I can definitely see the value in doing that, perhaps converting an existing bike and then adding the motor.

I'd still like to understand what type of assist the different motors provides... Is it purely a throttle activation, or is it similar to the PAS where it 'helps' as you pedal to make each stroke 'easier'? Perhaps I'm just missing the info in the various internet offers ...

Yeah, the ecospeed looks nice, but I'm hoping to have a bike with a hub motor. I don't want to have all that external stuff, connected to the chain requiring extra cleaning, etc. Also, I think if I was looking to go 35+mph, I would just keep my other scooter (which I'm selling). Although damage will occur if you sustain a fall at any speed, those types of speeds would preclude me from riding on the bikepaths and would put me on the big roads next to the big trucks, which is another reason why I'd like an ebike... so I can enjoy the 'backways' and get away from the traffic.

ecowheelz

There's definitely a lot to choose from out there... so make sure you keep doing research and getting input from people on forums like this (and Endless Sphere)..

Many people here (and elsewhere) will recommend an electric bike kit since they provide so much flexibility and allow you to create the perfect setup / system for your riding needs. It can get a little overwhelming since there's so many choices and different setups, but a little research will go a long way.

Most people agree Crystalyte provides some of the highest quality brushless hub motors on the market. And people tend to agree about the 9 Continents kits (ie: E-BikeKit, Amped, etc.) as well. These are all high quality kits at moderate prices ($349-$399 without batteries). If you go with Li-Ion, a complete conversion will run between $700-$1000. All of these kits will be throttle controlled unless you purchase a PAS system seperately.

But if a kit seems too intimidating, there's quite a few "pre-fabbed" bikes on the market too. People have mentioned the cheapo EZIP bikes from Currie Technologies. But Currie also has some upper-end IZIP bikes as well. Most use lead acid batteries, but they also have some Li-Ion models that may / may not be more than you're willing to spend.

I'd be very very leary about any "Li-Ion" bike priced under $900. You get what you pay for! And you're sure to get the cheapest possible parts and components. Then you'll have to find replacements when things go wrong. GOOD LUCK with that if you buy on eBay!

About eBIKEcology on eBay... $699 for a complete e-bike with LiFePo4 battery??? I HIGHLY DOUBT IT! More than likely this is the cheaper LiMnO2 chemistry - and even at that - I'd be very leary about the extremely low price.

JUST MY 2 CENTS...

Stormsteed

Thanks for the info, Jeremy. Good advice there, to keep on doing research.

I actually went to the bay area today and tried the X-treme XB 300LI. Before I tell you my impression, can you tell me your impression of that bike vs. the Currie ezip and izips? Build quality, type of assist, etc. Thanks.

ecowheelz

The X-Treme XB300Li is a relatively cheap Chinese import with a Li-Ion battery. Many companies import the exact same bike and make small adjustments with their own branding as if they were unique to their company. But they're all "cookie-cutter" e-bikes with moderate to low-quality components.

Put the lower quality bicycle componentry aside, and you're dealing with a 24V / 8AH Li-Ion battery on a 300w rear hub motor. Although this might be plenty of power for people who have flat terrain and just use the bike for casual riding, it will definitely be lack-luster for someone who weighs over 200lbs or deals with hills / inclines and rides on a regular basis. With the low amount of torque provided from this motor, you'll probably need to do some pedalling to get up to speed or maintain momentum on hills and inclines. But this is true for any e-bike, you'll just be required to pedal more frequently on a lower powered system like this.

The EZIPs will have similar lower-quality bicycle components (IZIPs slightly better), but the big advantage is that the Currie drive system provides excellent torque. It's externally mounted 450w motor powers the wheel through a small gear box and chain drive. This provides good takeoff power from a dead stop and it handles moderate hills and inclines quite well. Although it includes a heavier, lower-quality SLA battery, many people have updated and added their own Li-Ion batteries later (search the forum). Actually, we're working on our own Li-Ion upgrade pack right now... keep an eye out in the coming months

Both bikes have a similar throttle / PAS systems (*new 2009 EZIPs only*). Twist the throttle to control power, or hit the switch for pedal assist. It's nice having an option, but if you prefer pedal assistance, you don't have much control with either model. Upper-end e-bikes will allow you to choose from multiple pedal-assist settings to customize the amount of assistance it provides. But that may / may not be an issue...

As far as range, both bikes (specifically the XB-300Li) are highly over-stated. I would say 10-15 miles per charge is more likely for both of these models with an average rider who does minimal pedalling. The nice thing about the EZIPs, is you can carry a second battery to extend the range.

For the average rider who isn't a hardcore bike enthusiast, these bikes will provide a good starting point into e-biking. Many of our customers (and people on this forum) have thousands of miles on their "cheapo" EZIPs! Obviously, if you're used to riding a high-end bicycle like a Trek, Specialized, Giant, etc... both of these bikes will be disappointing. But there aren't many options unless you're willing to pay $1500+ or go with a kit and customize your own bike.

miro13car

By all means do not go cheap IF YOU NEED SERIOUS COMMUTER NOT A OCCASIONAL TOY..
Thank about ebike in terms of gasoline tanks if you want to use it for commute.
If you fill up even 3 times a month , that's what 150 dollars US?
In 10 months that is already 1500 dollars.
Expect bike to pay for itself in NO LESS than full year.
Do you need serious commuter or do you need occasional toy?
If occasional use you can buy Chinese....but
Anything below $1000 would be out of question for me. It has cheap, cheap components which goes out of adjustment fast, start wobbling, rattling and falling apart and you must constantly walk around with wrenches, screwdrivers and what else if you want it to run and they will not last long , nowhere near 10 years.
There are 2 kind of ebikes: made in China and made in not IN CHINA naimly USA.
The best is Optibike next best is E+ which is upgrated famous Tidal Force.
I own Tidal Force , predecessor of E+ , I just reached 13,000 km on it, half of it was tipically on NOT paved roards. It cost US$3500tax included.
Because I own 6-cyclinder car , my ebike paid for itself in about 2 years.
USA manufacturing is like day and night comparing with Chinese crudiness.
TF is completely silent, shudder-free with low speeds/not like Chinese/ , it has regen which saves break pads, controller is rock-solid , very very smooth .

ecowheelz

I have to disagree that Chinese-made bikes are not good for daily use. Sure... in most cases US-made goods are superior. But many companies (like Currie) have complete control over design and quality control. Although all these products are physically manufactured in China, an American company has oversight over much of the process. Some of Currie's bikes are lower-quality - but that's by choice - to provide an entry level price point for consumers. They also produce higher quality bikes which have higher-end components and features.

That would be like saying Schwinn, Giant, Cannondale, Trek and other BIG NAME bicycles aren't good for daily use and won't hold up well over time. All of these companies manufacture in China...

The US companies you've named might offer nice products. But you'll pay $5000+ for an Optibike. And the E+ bikes are quite pricey at $3000+. It's like comparing APPLES to ORANGES since these bikes are much more powerful and provide lots of additional features that aren't provided on the average / standard e-bike models. Not everyone wants to go 25-30 mph and not everyone needs the powerful batteries to support this speed or extended range.

nwmtnbkr

Take your time and don't let other's comments sway you from looking at a line of product because they've labeled it "cheap". If you're buying a complete bike and not just a kit, if possible, test ride models that you're considering. I looked at various e-bike conversion kits for my mountain bike for several years before I pulled the trigger this summer and bought the Currie conversion kit. It's the best investment I've made recently. I wasn't riding my bike much since moving from the east coast to the NW Rockies--the hills here were killing my knees. The Currie motor has proven to be a trooper with lots of torque. (I was limited to a rear wheel kit since I have an aluminum suspension fork and didn't want to replace it.) I know there are those who would say it's a cheap kit and go for the most expensive that come with LIFEPO4. However, almost every conversion kit and e-bike is made in the same place--China. Talk of quality is a often matter of perception. Price alone doesn't ensure quality. Some of the better rated conversion kits are seeing issues with individual components. Why? Quality control (QC) is impossible to monitor from abroad and most North American companies repackaging Chinese-made kits or e-bikes just don't have a rep sitting in various Chinese factories that produce the various components for e-bikes and e-bike conversion kits.

If you're urged to buy a powerful bike (motor more than 750W and goes faster than 20 MPH), keep in mind that those models technically don't fall under the federal definition of "power assisted bicycles" and must meet the more stringent federal safety standards set for mopeds and motorcycles. Your state may also require that you license and insure it as well as have a motorcycle operator's license.

The federal definition of "power assisted bicycles" comes into play with respect to safety standards only. Those electric bicycles that fall under the definition of "power assisted bicycles" --speed under 20MPH and motor under 750W--have their safety standards set by the Consumer Product Safety Administration rather than the National Highway Transportation Safety Board under the rationale that they're a consumer product, not a "motor vehicle." Congress has left it up to the individual states on how to regulate the operation of "Power Assisted Bicycles" on public rights of way, including licensing. As you'll note in other threads, at least one state, NY, has a complete ban on the use of electric bicycles on public roads.

Good luck. Take your time and make sure you're happy.

Stormsteed

Thanks for all the great responses!

Also, thanks for the frank review of the X-treme 300XBLi. I must admit, I was not as impressed with the bike as I thought I might be after riding the Torker. I also noticed a bit of what you mentioned, regarding build quality, especially after I got off the bike and the seat had gotten loose somehow... that's when I noticed all the seat components were plastic. The ride was mostly comfortable, but the assist was kind of annoying... when it kicked in, it was quite noticeable (unlike the Torker that kind of made the assist feel seamless. Also, the throttle on the X-treme had quite a lot of lag and not a lot of oomph to it (I'm about 175lbs, so not light, but not at extreme of the weight capacity either).

Overall, I decided I should spend more time researching and searching.

Now, another question on the Currie's... It seems that all the ezips and izips are external drive as you mentioned. I chatted with a guy who had an ezip and he said it was horribly noisy. Since I haven't had the opportunity to see/ride either one, what say you folks who do have these external Currie motors? Are they that noisy? I have put it in my mind to get a hub motor but perhaps I should rethink that...??

Stormsteed

By the way, thanks also for confirming my suspicion that the X-treme is in the 'cookie-cutter' series of many others. I was wondering that since there's a dozen out there that pretty much look exactly the same.

ecowheelz

As for the sound of the Currie motors... they're not as quiet as a hub motor... but I definitely wouldn't say they're "horribly noisy". I would say it's more of a low-pitched "whizzing" or "winding" noise you get from the motor turning the chain drive. A pedestrian might hear you coming from 10-15ft away, but it's not going to wake up the neighbors. Sounds just like the electric scooters all the kids are whizzing around on...

Although the Currie motors give you great torque, there are some other benefits to hub motors too: a.) quieter b.) potential higher top speed c.) no moving parts to wear out or clean d.) more "stealthy" and well hidden e.) more efficient... etc...

Pros and cons to everything! Just have to figure out what works the best in your situation...

Stormsteed

So, now I've followed the great links for options to check for a conversion kit (hub motor), and the Currie e- and izips (non-hub motor)... if I'm looking for a good prefab bike with a hub motor, what would you suggest? I'm afraid that the top-of-the-line Optibike is out of my price range, and I'm actually starting to think that some of the initial advice to build one may be the way to go... :/

misslexi

I'm going with Ecospeed for it's unmatched hill climbing ability and a Crystalyte hub on the front for it's silence on the flats. It is possible to have the best of both worlds, with two throttles. Not cheap though.

Biont

Optibike is completely unattractive to me, not because of its price but due to its scooteresque styling with fat pipes etc.

Well at a fraction of an optibike but still not cvery cheap you can get a front hub motor Brompton or a Birdy Hybrid. You can get a Birdy and motoroize yourself with Bionx PL350 and this would be a killer of a bike. Since I am interested in folding commuter e-bikes my recommendations are those two. For me a hub motor is a must an I am torn between the lightness (15 kgs with motor and battery) and folded compactness of Brompton and versatility of an assist+throttle+regen type motor which is more powerful and torquay and variable terrain riding comfort of a Birdy. And the latter is more expensive as well. I am still indecisive.

For full sized bikes I would go for Bionx 350 or 500 kit however this means USD 1700-2000 for the motor k't only (with LiIon battery)

ecowheelz

If you're looking for a "prefabbed" e-bike with a hub motor, Ecobike's new Adventure model is very nice!

https://www.ecobike-usa.com/products/...ctric-bike.asp

We'll be adding this bike to our website shortly... it includes a 36V Li-Ion battery and a 360w geared hub motor. It has much better power and torque than the X-Treme 300Li you mentioned earlier. It has a throttle and pedal assist, decent componentry and a 5 year frame warranty (1 year on battery and everything else). It retails for around $1799.

My favorite of the upper-end IZIP models is the IZIP Trailz Enlightened:

https://www.eco-wheelz.com/catalog/iz...tened-p-31.php

You either love the hidden Li-Ion battery or you don't. But this bike doesn't have a throttle - it's 100% pedal assist. Unlike the pedal assist included on the other bikes you've mentioned (with throttles), you have full control over the level of assistance with 6 different power settings. Set it low for just a little assistance, or set it high for it to do most of the work. And obviously you can turn it off to ride like a normal bike...

Kits? We really like the E-Bike Kit with LiFePo4 (LiFePo4 is top-of-the-line Li-Ion chemistry!). But Crystalyte is also very reputable. Lots of people like Bionx, but it's very expensive and you can't interchange parts (only Bionx parts work with Bionx kits). With the other ones mentioned, you can interchange parts from almost anywhere...

Stormsteed

It seems like there are a lot of folding bikes out there, some of them coming already set up with the e-assist. Don't these bikes go slower because of the smaller wheels? So far, I've been 'ignoring' these, though for the most part, they meet my #1 requirement... easy to mount because of the low overstep.

Stormsteed

There's a thought... buy a prefabbed bike of one type of assist and then add another hub motor. But you're right... won't be cheap. If both motors are 'regulated' at top speed, your result in using both throttles at once will be super quick acceleration to top speed and then just level out there, right? You would also need to add a second power source too, right?

Stormsteed

Ecobike looks very nice... and looking at their website, they also have the Elegance which would much better suit my mounting necessity of the low step-over

https://www.ecobike-usa.com/products/...ctric-bike.asp

This bike looks like it has the same motor and battery as the Adventure, so presumably the same performance (on flats). Any chance you'll be carrying this, too?

As I look at this bike (the Elegance) more closely, it really resembles the X-treme and all the other cookie-cutter bikes (the ebay bike) that I've been looking at. Is this really a better bike for the money?

Stormsteed

And here's another one... What's everyone's thoughts on an eZee Sprint? This also looks like all the other 'clone' bikes... ?
https://www.nycewheels.com/ezee-sprin...tric-bike.html

Although, this bike is front-wheel drive....

ecowheelz

We're carrying all the Ecobike models. Just haven't added them to our website yet... hopefully by next week...

Yes... these bikes look similar to the X-Treme. But the Ecobike and Ezee bikes are definitely MUCH HIGHER QUALITY! More powerful, higher-end motors, higher capacity batteries and much better bicyle components. I think the frame is the only thing they have in common with the X-Treme. I'd say Ezee is slightly higher quality than Ecobike because they use a Li-Po battery vs. LiMnO2, but they're also much more expensive. Ecobike is a nice in-between and they look slightly more "stylish" (in my opinion) than the Ezee models.

ecowheelz

Some other differences to note between eZee and Ecobike: a.) Front hub motor on eZee vs. rear on Ecobike (we like the rears better ) b.) The eZee weighs 65lbs vs. 52lbs on the Ecobike. Not sure where all the extra weight is coming from, but 13lbs is a big difference.

falconev

You need a custom built bike for you.
YOU pick the bike AND the motor AND the battery

Edited by Moderators