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Taiwan Ebikes worth a shot?

Old 01-10-11, 01:47 PM
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Dakota82
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Question Taiwan Ebikes worth a shot?

I saw this clip below on youtube of a bicycle flying down the streets of Taiwan at 75 MPH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6o-g7YeC4Q

It turns out that they are selling kits for a nice price at the website below:

https://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-M.htm

I was considering purchasing one of these ebikes but, I'm not so sure what I am getting myself into since I am pretty new to electric bicycles; I have only owned one ebike from ampedbikes dot com so.

I am aware of this guy named Greg Davey who is selling an E-book that teaches how to build a 50 MPH Ebicycle but, if I could just buy and install a kit that would go that fast well, I guess I would buy one from Taiwan.

Greg Davey: https://www.fastelectricbike.com/

Well, What do you guys think? Do you think it be a good idea to get one of those E-bikes from Taiwan?

If anyone here is knowledgeable about building E-bikes, or is savey about them, please add me as your friend because, I have a few questions about e-bikes.

Well, hope to hear plenty comments from everybody soon!

Dakatoa82,
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Old 01-11-11, 01:43 AM
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Sangesf
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Forget about it, if it's able to go faster than 35mph. Any vehicle able to achieve such speeds would need DOT approved equipment.

Chances of that are basically nil.
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Old 01-11-11, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Sangesf View Post
Forget about it, if it's able to go faster than 35mph. Any vehicle able to achieve such speeds would need DOT approved equipment.

Chances of that are basically nil.
Just because it could possibly do 35 mph + doesnt mean the rider would have to go that fast...Im confident that most riders would not be harrased by law enforcement if the riders used common sense and stayed around 20-25 mph or basically used the electric setup to mainly assist going up hills , instead of using it to act like a nascar race driver.


I personally do not like the mounting of the motor/ chain system on the 2 wheel bike in that link. Looks to me that it would be easy to get a pants leg caught up in that setup.....I dont want to have to worry about anything getting caught in the chain drive system when I pedal...because its just a un-needed divergence. If the motor could be mounted away from the riders legs/ pedalling area and the chain system was not forward of the riders body, then it would be more appealing to me.
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Old 01-11-11, 12:10 PM
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In a typical metropolitan area, I think one would not need to go any faster than 25 MPH; I once had an Ebike myself, and I didn't need to go any faster than that.

However, I am interested in getting an Ebike that can go 45 MPH max, because I am looking to use it to travel to and fro between the rural country and the city. It is approximately a 75 mile stretch. There is also a 300 mile ride I'd like to cover in one day every year on an Ebike so, the desire for an ebike that has a lot of mileage and a little more speed is desired. If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations, I am all ears.

I am not at all concerned about statutes or the DOT. I am confident that my demonstration of personal responsibility and the roads&paths ways I will be using will ensure that I will get minimal harassment. I understand that I have an unlimited right of travel which is not a privilege. I also have not entered into a contract with the State where I only got split title of my private property by registering and thereby giving the State Legal title where I only have Equitable title. Rather than that, I hold Allodial title evidenced my UCC-1. There are many brave men and woman recording themselves exercising their God given rights on video camera and lawfully handling the police and being allowed to continue to enjoy their Rights.

I am unfamiliar with cyclone motors but, if there is a chance I could get a cheap but good mileage and fast ebike kit, I will take advantage. Do you think you could get away with one of those on a Surley Big Dummy?

Does anyone know how to calculate the mileage you can get from the battery? Do you multiply the amps by the Volts?
How many Watts to a mile?
How far does 1,500 Watts get ya?

Well, I look forward to hearing more comments and suggestions.
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Old 01-11-11, 04:38 PM
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15rms
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Dakota to go 75 miles doing 45 mph on an electric bicycle is asking a little too much. Just the battery weight alone makes it not very do able. Going 45 mph on a typical bicycle is dangerous at best. Doing it for 75 miles is putting the odds on disasters side.

Have you considered a gasoline motor? I have one on a recumbent and it will do a 25 mile an hour cruise easy.

If you really believe you want to go the electric route an Opti-Bike will go 100 miles with its optional touring battery. If you changed the front sprocket it would go around 40 mph. Oh one more thing that type of performance cost. The Opti-Bike runs around $12,000 with the options you need.

I know Lightfoot Cycles is selling its eco speed demo. It only has a couple hundred miles on it. I believe they are asking $3,700 for it. It’s a nice bike. The eco speed electric system is one of the best on the market. You could weigh it down with enough lipo to go 75 miles. With a fairing it would cruise close to 30 mph. Still with some of the options you would need you are looking at around $6,000. Take a look at Lightfoots gasoline option. I have a Subaru powered Ranger. I absolutely love it. A 75 mile ride is done with just 42 ounces of gas.

The bottom line is you need to get to reality. 45 mph is asking too much for a bicycle. Too dangerous.
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Old 01-12-11, 03:18 AM
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My point exactly..
Hey, it is ok to be "cool" and wanting a fast electric bike that will take you far, but they're right, you start going into the thousands of dollars range at that point.
If you just want a normal speed (20mph) and a good distance (100miles), do what I did.
Twin 36v 20ah / 500w battery motor combination.

P.S. Stop the whole, "right to travel" stuff. It's just like everything else.
do you think you have the right to travel anywhere you please? Try "traveling" into a town that has posted speed limits of 25mph while you're doing 45... See how long that lasts..
You tried that stuff on another website, and we pulled apart every one of your theories as to "right to travel".
As in, if you have the right to travel down my block with let's say a really loud motored bicycle at 3am in the morning. Then I have the right to smack you upside the head as you're traveling past my house.

Last edited by Sangesf; 01-12-11 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 01-12-11, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sangesf View Post
If you just want a normal speed (20mph) and a good distance (100miles), do what I did.

Twin 36v 20ah / 500w battery motor combination.
Thank You so much for that suggestion; I really appreciate it.

Do you understand all the mechanics to adjusting the volts and the amps?
Do you have any tips on how to shop for such things?
Do you know how many Watts to a mile?

I am brand new to Ebikes and I sure could some help that, if there is any expertise you could be so kind to lend me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Sangesf View Post
You tried that stuff on another website, and we pulled apart every one of your theories as to "right to travel".
Who was that guy on the other website? What website? Do you have his screen name or e-mail? If you could be so kind to send me his contact info I would greatly appreciate it. I would like to get in touch with him.

Is there anyone else here who has similar sentiments as I do regarding the "right of travel"? If you do, please add me as your friend. If not, please forever hold your peace.

I wish you all many blessings this year.

Sincerely,

Dakota82
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Mitakuye Oyas'in
(We are all Related)
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Old 01-13-11, 08:12 AM
  #8  
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I'm Canadian so I looked up "right to travel" since I don't really know what that is, interestingly it's not even in the constitution.

from the website : https://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#travel


The Right To Travel

As the Supreme Court notes in Saenz v Roe, 98-97 (1999), the Constitution does not contain the word "travel" in any context, let alone an explicit right to travel (except for members of Congress, who are guaranteed the right to travel to and from Congress). The presumed right to travel, however, is firmly established in U.S. law and precedent. In U.S. v Guest, 383 U.S. 745 (1966), the Court noted, "It is a right that has been firmly established and repeatedly recognized." In fact, in Shapiro v Thompson, 394 U.S. 618 (1969), Justice Stewart noted in a concurring opinion that "it is a right broadly assertable against private interference as well as governmental action. Like the right of association, ... it is a virtually unconditional personal right, guaranteed by the Constitution to us all." It is interesting to note that the Articles of Confederation had an explicit right to travel; it is now thought that the right is so fundamental that the Framers may have thought it unnecessary to include it in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
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Old 01-13-11, 03:42 PM
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Thank You so much for that suggestion; I really appreciate it.

Do you understand all the mechanics to adjusting the volts and the amps?
Do you have any tips on how to shop for such things?
Do you know how many Watts to a mile?

I am brand new to Ebikes and I sure could some help that, if there is any expertise you could be so kind to lend me, I would greatly appreciate it.
What exactly are you asking?

If you have a bicycle and add two 36v motors (500w+) 2-20ah lithium batteries, you will easily be able to achieve 20mph for approx 80+ miles.
I can get two motor kits for $450 and two batteries for $850.
So for about $1300 in motor/battery combos, you can achieve your requested speed/distance.
Max speed of ~25mph. (~80m)
Speed of ~20mph. (~90m)
Speed of ~18mph. (~100m)
Speed of ~16mph. (~110m)

Watts per mile and voltage/amps usage can be hugely variable depending on which controllers you use, your terrain, wind, and many other factors.

Last edited by Sangesf; 01-13-11 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 01-13-11, 10:28 PM
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Sangesf I am sure I am following you. At 36 volts I understand you can get anywhere from 1.2 to 1.5 miles per amp. If you had one motor and 40 amps you may get around 60 miles not peddling. So how would two motors give you more miles? Does it not give you more power but eat more energy to do so? Would you not go further if you had just one motor with 40 amps? It just does not seem logical that two motors adds more miles. It seems like it should add more power and less miles.

Just courious and asking.

Thanks
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Old 01-14-11, 12:39 AM
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They use alot less power...
I have tried both ways that you speak of and have tested quite thoroughly.
I'll explain why, and why it's counterintuitive to normal thinking..
The main reason is that most motors are NOT efficient at getting to their "sweet spot".
(at least the motors I and most other people use).
You are getting to the max efficiency of most motors when you get to their "cruising" speed while using two motors. They use much less amperage when used "in tandem" getting TO that speed (rpm).
I'm not going to go crazy with specific numbers In how the efficiency works out mathematically, BUT I will give you the figures I've recorded.

With one motor and a 36v 15ah lifepo4 battery I would get a distance of approx. 21 miles or 1.4 miles per AH which also is 25.5w/h per mile.
When I add the second motor and my second battery, I would get 30 miles out of that same battery, so that would be 2 miles per AH or 18w/h per mile.

Now you might say, but you used A second battery and motor... What happened to that battery?
Guess what... That's what I said too... So what did I do? I took a 36v 30ah battery and ran the controller's power in parallel..
It worked out to provide a total of 60 miles.
Mind you this was running the motors at 20 mph (with the use of cruise control) just above their most efficient speed of 18 mph.
At 18 mph, I got 77 miles or 14w/h per mile.
I tested this then with 2 - 36v 20AH batteries and found almost the exact same numbers in ratio to the AH used.
With those batteries and motors I was getting anywhere from 80miles to 114miles depending on speed and wind.

I run once a month from Boca Raton to Miami and back without charging.

I use 2 - 36v 6a chargers. So even if I néed to charge at any point I only need ~3 hours to get my max range again.

Last edited by Sangesf; 01-14-11 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 01-14-11, 01:04 AM
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If you want to go full power on the motors at the same time, then yes, you would get more power and more speed, but at the sacrifice of efficiency (re:distance)
The no-load speed on the one motor is 26.4 mph.
With load on one motor I get 21.6mph.
With both motors running I get 23.4mph.
But I don't need (nor am I allowed to, in Florida) go over 20mph, so I have 2 cycle analysts that have speed limiters set. (I also limit amp output to 16amps max))
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Old 01-14-11, 01:15 AM
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Alot has to do with the amount of power your using (c-rate) at a continuous level.
At less than 1C on a 1c rated battery you CAN get more AH then it's rated for.
If you run at 2x's the c-rate you WILL get less.
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Old 01-14-11, 12:02 PM
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I would suggest looking into recumbent bicycles if you are looking for long distance and speed. You can quite easily put fairings on them. At least half of your energy goes into fighting wind resistance over about 15 mph.
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Old 01-14-11, 07:20 PM
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The wind resistance really gets crazy after 20mph too..
I've ridden in a recumbent. It IS nice and comfortable.. But I hate the way they look and anyone I've ever known that's had one, was a pompous ass.. (at least the people ive personally met here in the south Florida area.
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Old 01-14-11, 10:17 PM
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When it comes to shopping or getting a hold of batteries that have various Amps and Volts, how do you go about doing that? Could you be so kind to share your tips?
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Old 01-14-11, 10:31 PM
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Sangfesf I would be interested in seeing a picture of your set up. Have you posted one anywhere?
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Old 01-15-11, 02:54 AM
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I've posted a video on YouTube. I'll find the link and edit this post with it.
Here it is....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3QXP...e_gdata_player

I'll post another (newer) video of the entire setup almost finished tomorrow or the next day.

Last edited by Sangesf; 01-15-11 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 01-15-11, 02:38 PM
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Nice bike thanks for sharing.
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Old 01-15-11, 03:00 PM
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Nah.. It's actually all f'd up.. I need to fix it up and look nice.
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Old 01-16-11, 01:58 AM
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75 mph is insanity on a bike! Skinny tires, crappy suspension, thin bolts, thin spokes - the bike really needs to be beefed up to handle the stress else it's a death machine. I'd go with a scooter or motorbike for serious road speed driving.
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Old 01-16-11, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by spasmous View Post
75 mph is insanity on a bike! Skinny tires, crappy suspension, thin bolts, thin spokes - the bike really needs to be beefed up to handle the stress else it's a death machine. I'd go with a scooter or motorbike for serious road speed driving.
I actually think anyone who needs to consistently do more then 30 mph..should go with
a 4 stroke gas scooter....or moped .
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Old 01-17-11, 12:11 AM
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Without a doubt.. That's what I think too
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