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My E+ review

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My E+ review

Old 09-02-18, 09:39 PM
  #451  
bspierre
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Originally Posted by wrandyr View Post
@bspierre:

I have noticed a similar behavior. My ride to work is all uphill. If I forget to charge the battery, and try to go up the hill again at 7, 8 , or 9, the system will shut down. If I set it to 6 or lower, it will continue to run. When it was new, I could go up at any setting two or three times with no problem. I suspect that as the batteries get older, they lose their ability to deliver maximum power in addition to losing some distance-type capacity.

Makes sense. Just for fun I looked up the date I purchased these bikes (actually I bought the DIY battery and motor and put them on Tidalforce S-750 frames), it was 9 years ago. Until recently, I never had a problem with them. That's pretty good, especially for the battery.

Last weekend I rented a Specialized Turbo Levo full suspension mountain bike and took it on some trails I'd never dare take my E+. It was amazing, the technology has really come along. Especially when riding on technical trails, the pedalectric control is the way to go over a throttle. So while I think i may try replacing the batteries in my E+ hub, it really may not be worth it. Going with a regular front wheel and putting a Lipo on a back rack (if that's even possible) will keep the bike going, but isn't a very elegant overall solution when compared to a mid-drive motor and a Lipo battery built into the down tube.
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Old 09-03-18, 05:24 AM
  #452  
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bspierre,
you compare 2 different animals
my experience with pedalec BIONX:
first pedalec is limited in some ways.
you will not get assist before torque sensor senses that you press on pedals hard enough.
so
- what if you need to move up the hill from stop and forget to gear down before ?
- same at traffic lights, I found it annoying to start moving when I am in high gear and drivers look at my - "why is he not moving..."
- walking pedalec up the hill like on the grass is a nightmare with pedalec, you forget that you must walk your ebike up the hill in some situations,
you might be in situation that you start moving while uphill - that is what you forgetting.

Last edited by powell; 09-04-18 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 09-04-18, 07:59 AM
  #453  
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bspierre,
by any chance , have you consider selling one of your EPLUSes?
I understand they are both 1000W?
Cut offs especially on worn out hub battery are normal.
what happens when sense board of one of 5-cell modules detects voltage of that module below 5.0V /I dont know exact value/ ???
On new battery EPLUS would reduce the power drawn , on worn out battery it would goes into full shut down, there is threshold.

It obvious that NMH battery seriously limits performance of EPLUS.
with my Nissan Leaf cell 11S battery I go 80 kilometers and still read above 40V .
at such voltage current is low of course.
overcurrent protection will never happen, power board in battery / discharge MOSFETs have easy life/,
same inside motor inverter is happy also. Current means heating.
for the same power drawn if you lower your voltage you draw more current - bad , bad
and performance is excellent.
I used to use level 4 with NMH hub battery, now I ride in 3 most of the time, sometimes level 2 is enough.
Shortly - after switchting to Lithium level 4 feels like old level 5 , level 2 feels like old level 3, etc..
EPLUS drive is incredible efficient - 8-9 Wh per kilometer in level 3 at 40km/h .

Last edited by powell; 09-18-18 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 09-09-18, 11:37 PM
  #454  
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Update 3
Went for a 15 mile ride on the resurrected bicycle. Down to 1 bar when finished. It worked well, I didn't notice anything unusual. Put it on charge, went to ride it the next day, nothing, no signs of life.
So I suspect it's the same thing, I need to reset the BMS.
I took the battery out of the hub and tested each of the cells. They were all at 1.37 except for one which was at 1.19.
I'm running 5 Charge/Discharge cycles on that cell now. Could it be the weakest link? Should be interesting to see what the voltage peaks at and how much capacity is left.

>>by any chance , have you consider selling one of your EPLUSes?

I don't need 2 EPluses, I'd sell one but in this condition it would have to be to someone who knows what they are buying.
I also still have a new Tidalforce S-750 frame in a box in the basement. I bought them when the company went bankrupt. I should try to find a good home for that too.
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Old 09-10-18, 03:32 PM
  #455  
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by "no sign of life.. " you mean exactly what?
Are both of your EPLUSes 1000W ???
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Old 09-10-18, 07:53 PM
  #456  
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@bspierre
It seems like you should have more than 1 bar after 15 miles. Have you tried hooking your other controller up to the battery? Do you have more than 1 charger? I thought one of my batteries was going bad, but it turned out to be the charger. Also, the switches on the controller have been known to get flaky. I have one that you have to press on really hard to get it to turn on. If you didn't know that was the case, you would think it was dead.
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Old 09-16-18, 04:59 PM
  #457  
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Update 4

To recap, after successfully resetting the BMS and going for a ride on the bike, I returned with about 1 bar left on the meter.
I put the bike on charge, all looked well. When I went to ride it the next day, the controller display was dark. I disconnected the charger and connected the battery to the bike. Pressing the on button had no effect.
I suspected that I had the same problem with the BMS so I went about repeating the prior fix, but I didn't work.
Leaving out a lot of troubleshooting, i eventually figured out the problem by tracking the voltage increase along the string of 30 batteries. I eventually found that one of the black wires that connects adjacent modules was not tightly connected. Pushing on it created a little spark. I tightened the screw and was getting 42 Volts from the entire string.
So either this was the problem all along or I left one of the screws loose in the process of "fixing" it the first time.
It's all back together now and charging. I'll take it for a ride later.

Originally Posted by powell View Post
by "no sign of life.. " you mean exactly what?
Are both of your EPLUSes 1000W ???
I meant that the controller display was dead whether on charge or when hooked up to the battery.
Yes both bikes are 1000W Eplus drive components on a Tidalforce S-750 frames.
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Old 09-16-18, 05:05 PM
  #458  
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Originally Posted by wrandyr View Post
@bspierre
It seems like you should have more than 1 bar after 15 miles. Have you tried hooking your other controller up to the battery? Do you have more than 1 charger? I thought one of my batteries was going bad, but it turned out to be the charger. Also, the switches on the controller have been known to get flaky. I have one that you have to press on really hard to get it to turn on. If you didn't know that was the case, you would think it was dead.
I get similar range out of both of my batteries. I cycled one of the cells and was only getting 7000mAH with a cutoff voltage of .9v. So it appears that after 10 years they are just getting a little tired.
I have two chargers, I have swapped them, doesn't seem to matter.
I have read about the controller switches going flaky but so far both of mine are as good as they ever were.
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Old 09-17-18, 10:08 AM
  #459  
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the problem is that I would buy ONLY EPLUS drive so only :
motor + display/contr. + power and comm cables
no frame , no hub battery.
shipping would be much simpler and important - custom duties on complete bikes to Canada.
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Old 09-17-18, 12:41 PM
  #460  
Delia Hogue
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Hi powell,
Oh great I want to modify my brother bike. How much cost to modify my bike. Can I purchase all kit from Amazon?

your bike such a great bike. this bike decoration is awesome. loved it.
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Old 09-17-18, 01:00 PM
  #461  
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Delia
this is:
this thread is dedicated to EPLUS ebikes.
former prod manager Rick Ruggiero has still EPLUSes for sale , I know it for sure.

his tel number 703 589 7182
just Google "Rick Ruggiero"
again this is EPLUS thread

Last edited by powell; 09-17-18 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 09-17-18, 06:27 PM
  #462  
bspierre
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Originally Posted by powell View Post
the problem is that I would buy ONLY EPLUS drive so only :
motor + display/contr. + power and comm cables
no frame , no hub battery.
shipping would be much simpler and important - custom duties on complete bikes to Canada.
It seems a shame to break up the bike now that I have it working again. Let's have the discussion. Can we switch to private mail? Seem I can't pm you because I don't yet have enough posts.
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Old 09-18-18, 07:47 AM
  #463  
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bspierre
I think you need 10 posts to PM other member.
just 2 more posts.
strange but this is how it is.
whole bicycles, ebikes or not, are subject to Canadian custom duties for sure.
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Old 09-23-18, 10:51 PM
  #464  
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Rebuilding E+ hub battery

Update 5
I've ridden the bike several times since finding and fixing the loose wire in the hub battery. I'm getting about 12 miles on fairly flat ground and returning with 1.5 bars left on the battery.
Riding at full power (9) will cause the electronics to shut down after just a minute or two. I'm pretty confident that the only thing wrong with the bike (both bikes actually) are tired batteries.
My next challenge will be to replace the 30 cells with new Nimh batteries. I'll document the process here as I go in the hopes that someone else my find it useful.
First task is to locate the replacement cells. It appears that the major manufacturers no longer bother to produce D size Nimh batteries. I'm going with a battery from Tenergy. I was going to post the link, but I can't until I have 10 posts. The Tenergy is the right size, has a capacity of 10,000 mah and is capable of 30 amps continuous.
I'll need some way to weld the cells together. Solder is not a good option. I'll either put together a DIY spot welder or invest in one of the cheap spot welders available on ebay. They have a dicey reputation but that's my favored option at this point.
Replacing the batteries seems pretty straightforward, especially given that i'm confortable now taking the hub battery apart and putting it back together.
It could still all go wrong, so I'll just buy enough batteries to do one of the bikes and see how that goes.
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Old 09-25-18, 08:03 AM
  #465  
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@bspierre:
There are a couple more options. Powell has successfully converted his system to use other battery types. You could also have the packs built by a battery specialty shop. Here are some links to possible sources:

https://www.epectec.com/batteries/custom/
https://en.globtek.com/battery-packs/
Custom Battery Packs
https://www.powerstream.com/Custom.htm
https://www.batteryspace.com/custom-...iAAEgKeivD_BwE

I have heard somewhere that you will want to specify "matched" cells.
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Old 09-25-18, 11:52 PM
  #466  
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Powell has asked me to recount my experience with my E+ system. Here goes.First, a couple of things about me to provide some context. I am not a social or recreational rider. I use my bike for transportation, mostly going back and forth to work. I have been biking to work most of my adult life, although I was the last kid on my block to learn how to ride one. I tend to buy products that are the best I can afford, then use them until they are thoroughly worn out and unserviceable. Such was the case of my 22-year-old car in early 2010.I had been intrigued by electric bikes for a while, and wondered if they could serve as primary transportation. Since I live in a place with a very mild climate, I figured I could use myself as a test case. I was able to test ride an E+ bike, and was impressed by the build quality of the motor and battery, but didn’t think too much of the one-size-fits-all frames and components. The hub battery seem to add more weight and mechanical complexity than it was worth, too. I decided to go with a conversion kit, and wait until E+ released the LiPo battery they said they were working on. The kit wasn’t going to work with my old Schwinn Continental, so I bought a Marin Muirwoods in April 2010 as my platform. I used it as my regular bike until that summer, when E+ started shipping the LiPo system. In August, I sold my car for scrap and the E+/Marin became my main ride. I went with the 750W version because I was regularly using bike paths and wanted to be street legal. I suspect the motors are all the same anyway, a governor being the only difference. At first I carried the battery in a pannier, but soon built a mount for it in the frame triangle. Here’s a picture:
The setup worked well and I was pretty happy with it. The only trouble I had was that the motor wheel came out of true about 15 months later at around 4000 miles. But, by then E+ had announced the recall of the LiPo batteries. They replaced my battery with the standard NiMH hub battery, which I installed at the end of 2011, with around 5000 miles on the system.In February 2013 at 9900 miles the motor wheel went out of true again. In July, I was able to buy a 750W City with only 152 miles off eBay. By then E+ was pretty much gone, so I was looking for backup options. The seller didn’t have a charger, and the battery was dead, but I didn’t think too much of it since I already had a charger. That’s when I learned how the batteries will self-discharge to a level below the threshold allowed for recharging. Thanks to this thread, I also learned how to overcome this and bring the battery back to life.A few months later, around 12,000 miles, I started having trouble with the battery. The range and available power were dropping off. I figured that I had gone through the useful life of the battery, and had the hub from the City mounted in a rim for the Marin. Unfortunately, I continued to have problems with the battery. I eventually figured out that the problem was with the charger, not the batteries. Chargers continue to be my main headache. I have three E+ chargers, only one of which works properly, and that one flakes out from time to time. I have a third party charger as a backup, but it does not do the cell balancing routine. I don’t know what the implications of that are. (If anyone has a charger they want to sell, please contact me.)In mid 2015, around 14,300 miles, the motor wheel went out of true again. In January 2017 at 16,700 miles a spoke in the motor wheel pulled up a chunk of the rim. By this time I had picked up another motor from one of the contributors to this thread. It was already in the right size rim for my bike, but didn’t have a disk brake rotor. I thought it would be great to have a spare motor/wheel/tire to swap out, but discovered that the rotors E+ used were unique. I ended up having a couple made in Germany by BrakeSTUFF. They do nice work.I have had only two small problems come up. The latch on the data connector to the controller broke, so now I use a rubber band to keep it from coming loose while I am riding. And one of the conductors broke on one of the brake lever cables. I got a wiring harness with the third motor, so that was an easy fix. Otherwise, it’s the usual bike maintenance: clean the chain, adjust the brakes, change tires. I’m at 18,800 miles with no plans to quit.Early this year, it became apparent that the battery from the City was starting to wear out, even accounting for charger problems. Due to series of snafus at my LBS, it took until July to get my original battery into a rim and back on the bike. When the charger cooperates, I would say that it is still hitting better than 75% of its original performance, although my commute pattern has changed substantially, so its hard to really tell. Powell has generously provided me with a set of cells left over from one of his battery conversions. In the near future I will be swapping the cells out from the City hub with his. I will report on the process here.
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Old 09-26-18, 07:53 AM
  #467  
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Randy
I read your story of keeping your EPLUS on the road with interest.
you are that few who did not give up on EPLUS.
I was happy to provide you with NMH cells.
your work on hub battery will add another thousands of miles of millage to your EPLUS I hope.
WE will wait to read your reports on your NMH cell rebuld.
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Old 09-30-18, 06:56 PM
  #468  
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Originally Posted by bspierre View Post
Update 5
I've ridden the bike several times since finding and fixing the loose wire in the hub battery. I'm getting about 12 miles on fairly flat ground and returning with 1.5 bars left on the battery.
Riding at full power (9) will cause the electronics to shut down after just a minute or two. I'm pretty confident that the only thing wrong with the bike (both bikes actually) are tired batteries.
My next challenge will be to replace the 30 cells with new Nimh batteries. I'll document the process here as I go in the hopes that someone else my find it useful.
First task is to locate the replacement cells. It appears that the major manufacturers no longer bother to produce D size Nimh batteries. I'm going with a battery from Tenergy. I was going to post the link, but I can't until I have 10 posts. The Tenergy is the right size, has a capacity of 10,000 mah and is capable of 30 amps continuous.
I'll need some way to weld the cells together. Solder is not a good option. I'll either put together a DIY spot welder or invest in one of the cheap spot welders available on ebay. They have a dicey reputation but that's my favored option at this point.
Replacing the batteries seems pretty straightforward, especially given that i'm confortable now taking the hub battery apart and putting it back together.
It could still all go wrong, so I'll just buy enough batteries to do one of the bikes and see how that goes.
Where are you from? I would like to get my batteries to someone who can use them. It's a much better option than replacing your cells.
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Old 11-07-18, 03:54 PM
  #469  
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Powell's "sense" board wiring


E+ battery hub boards new home


Mount for 4 batteries (2s2p)





I finally found time to work on an E+ 1000W. It was a gift several years ago from a frustrated relative. It was stored for months and the NiMH battery self discharged below the BMS's rechargeable voltage level. It was fairly simple to open the battery hub at charge each cell individually. That returned the bike to full function and it was a great ride, but the it was very heavy and short on range for my needs.

It needed a Lithium upgrade. Micro13Car's, Powell's and other's post showed it was possible. Thanks for the fine documentation.

I opened the battery hub, removed the cells and the stacked power and logic board inside as described by Powell here: My E+ review #201 on. Connected to the lower power board is the battery + & -; motor + & -. Connected to top board is 6 wire data cable to the bike's display and 6 , 1 inch square "sense" boards. Each "sense" board is powered by a tap to 5 of the NiMH "D" cells in series (6v). Powell found 2 of the 6 "sense" boards were required to function. He got the voltage required from 2 cells of his main Lithium battery. I did the same and mounted the boards in a cut down, water tight Aluminum case, that was previously a 5" external hard drive enclosure.

I use tool batteries with great success to power ebikes. I chose a front rack mount for this build. A mounting buss for 4 batteries was riveted to the top of the rack, the circuit board enclosure below. The batteries are charged off the bike using 9a Makita rapid chargers. The charger and battery circuit board manage cell balancing and safety.

As expected, a test connect showed the display and all bike functions to work properly except for "state of charge" and the voltage graph. I use a watt meter that precisely reports battery voltage and energy used (ah and wh). So, those bits are no loss. In the course of testing, I removed the voltage from the 2 "sense" boards. There was no change in function or performance. I was too lazy to open the enclosure and test removing the "sense" boards so the boards may still be required, but voltage to the boards isn't in my case.

I have batteries built using 15, 3.5ah LG MJ1 cells in Makita style cases. Just 2 batteries in series provide 36v @ 10.5ah with a 30 amps (continuous) available. That's ~20miles with pedaling at a decent 22 mph. 28mph with less range. That a big improvement in weight, power and range over the bike with the original 8-10ah NiMH hub. With 4 batteries mounted, the range more than doubles, and bike is still much lighter than original. The bike has been regeared to 53/11 top gear to support 28+mph pedaling. Front disc brake added. The E+ has now moved from the bottom to the top of my list of favorites.

Last edited by Firedog91902; 11-07-18 at 04:03 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 11-11-18, 10:37 AM
  #470  
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Firedog,
I know that EPLUS battery electronic board would work with no voltage on sense wires on sense board.
however
I decided to connect those sense wires to my pack.
this way EPLUS battery processing board monitors 4 cells on my pack and can perform shut down at 5V for 2 cells in my pack which is 2.5V for a cell - exact lowest allowed voltage in my LiMnO chemistry pack.
originally EPLUS
one sense board monitors 5 in series /5S/ nickel NMH cells so 1V is absolutely cut off for one such cell.
I chose 4 weakest cells in my pack for such monitoring.
of course one can connect even 6 sense boards to EPLUS batt electronics and this way monitor 12 cells.

in your rather rare case you dont need all this, every drill battery pack has sophisticated BMS board inside.
BTW
charging all your set up with 4 chargers at the same time or using one charger would be a real pain.
imagine carrying 4 chargers ?
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Old 11-11-18, 10:03 PM
  #471  
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Powell,
Thank you for explaining the purpose of the sense boards and correcting my errors. That's a smart use of the electronics available.

Makita has a 2 port rapid charger that's not much bigger than 2 batteries. Each port charges independently at a max of 9 amps.with fans cooling the cells. It plays a choice of tunes when each battery is charged. Most of my trips are less than 20 miles so I generally just use 2 batteries and only one charge period (~2hrs) is needed. The batteries and chargers are relatively cheap and I use them on other bikes, dozens of tools; even my lawn mower. Having spare batteries and extra chargers is not a big deal. It's a pretty flexible system. When the family RV's we take 3 bikes, lots of batteries, but just one dual chargers. It seems to keep batteries charged for the needs of all the bikes with out much trouble.
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Old 12-14-18, 07:02 PM
  #472  
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Originally Posted by powell View Post
I can also help anybody to convert their EPLUS to Lithium battery.
You should be electrical person with multimeter.
Hi Powell,


I am so happy to see any activity on this forum!!


I have an E+ that I was given when someone was moving a while back. It had been running for them, then it sat for a while, and never started up again, so they gave up and bought a different bike. Totally bailed on the E+. I have never been able to ride it, because my husband is the one with the engineering background, and he was busy looking for a job, so no time, or money to put into it. Now, I would like to do the research to find someone who can guide him in getting it running again. He is working now, so we are in a slightly better position to make the necessary repairs, if I can find materials while he is working, and then he can jump on it at home. It is HEAVY, as you know, so I would like to convert it to Lithium, unless there is some better, longer lasting alternative now. The bike LOOKS brand new! It is maddening that it doesn't run! Any direction would be appreciated. Thanks so much!!
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Old 12-15-18, 11:08 AM
  #473  
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Powell,
Something interesting concerning those "sense" boards. A month ago, removed the NiMH hub battery and installed a Lithium ion, with the help of your posts. I noted the "sense" board connections weren't required. I road it several days, removing the batteries after each ride. All worked fine.

The has bike now sat, batteries off for 3 weeks. Yesterday, I loaded batteries for a ride and got Error 1 (display lost com with battery). All the connectors looked good so I thought I was stuck. Then,I remembered the sense board connection and plugged it it. Error gone.

Over my pay grade.....maybe you have an idea what's going on.
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Old 12-15-18, 11:18 AM
  #474  
Firedog91902
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Bikes: Univega Superstrada, Serrota, Santana tandem, E plus

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Easter,
The conversion of an E+ to a Lithium battery is not difficult to do with some basic electrical and mechanical skills and tools. All the information needed is in this post and there is more information at Endless sphere.

You should add location to your profile. There might be someone in your area that would help. I'm guessing if you have ebike interest in December you don't live in the north.
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Old 12-16-18, 03:07 PM
  #475  
Easter3
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Thanks so much! I have been looking through the posts, but am trying to figure a starting point. Guess I will go to the beginning! :-)
I'm in Los Angeles. If anyone is around this way, or even remotely close, would love some info! Take care and happy holidays!!!
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