Phone vs computer?
What's the consensus? I'm new to this. I understand I need a speed/cadence sensor, and that I MIGHT need some type of adaptor (ANT?) to use it with my iPhone 6. With all the apps and GPS available for a phone, this would seem like the logical choice instead of spending more money on a computer? What are the advantages of a computer?
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Yes, by the time you buy everything for the iPhone, you could buy a Garmin - water proof phone mount, aux battery, ANT+ adapter. The iPhone 6 is quite large and easy to damage. The advantage of a computer depends on what you get.
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Wired bike computer will cost about a week of the phone contract service fee, if you have a Cheap plan .
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
(Post 18040130)
Wired bike computer will cost about a week of the phone contract service fee, if you have a Cheap plan .
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Originally Posted by CFster
(Post 18035383)
With all the apps and GPS available for a phone, this would seem like the logical choice instead of spending more money on a computer?
How much did your iphone 6 cost? How much would it cost to replace it, in a crash for example? Will you ever ride in the rain? Not just leave your house while it's raining, but is it possible that you'll ever be out riding and not expect it? If you want to use the phone to show you your speed and cadence, that means it's going to be on your handlebars. Your phone isn't waterproof. So you can buy a case for it. If you only ever do short rides the battery will probably be fine, but GPS takes a lot of juice, and keeping the screen on takes a lot more. Which means people who do long rides using their phone as a computer (and display) buy separate battery packs for them, or special cases with batteries built in. Somebody here was talking about a phone app he pays $5 a month for. He felt like it's a great deal compared to a bike computer. It's $60 a year, $300 for 5 years. A lot of bike computers will last much longer than that, are already waterproof, don't have problems with the battery, and can still be used interactively in the rain or with gloves on. Now if you just put your phone in a ziplock bag in your pocket and have it record a track using a free app, the economics change to benefit the phone, but you get less from it as a result. |
Well, you don't need a speed/cadence sensor. I don't find either particularly useful unless combined with a power meter. HRM is a much better investment, IMHO, but if you want speed/cadence, go for it. And personally, I'd prefer to ride without a computer at all than use my phone as one. I've had my Edge 800 for 3 years now and it functions as well and has the same battery power as when I got it. I prefer to save my phone's battery to call for help if I need it.
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I prefer the computer, mainly because I will ride through some rain, and I like to have my cell phone for emergencies. I like all the numbers speed,cadence, HR, but you can do that with a phone if you want them. I don't have a need for a power meter, at this point its hard enough just to keep pedaling.
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The phone will provide about 95% of functionality of a high end computer and more than a mid range computer. If you carry your phone anyhow for safety, using it as a computer means one less thing you need to take with you. The sensors are a wash between the two.
J. |
I've been using Android.
Having a phone + nice integrate camera is nice. Running GPS eats up the batteries. And having the phone with the screen on all the time eats up the batteries quicker (and the screen keeps turning off which is annoying). I just have a basic $10 bike computer for speed, distance, etc. |
I got the Wahoo BlueSC speed/cadence sensor, a $20 phone mount, and the free Cyclemeter app on my iPhone (it's already in a case). That's quite a bit less than a comparable Garmin unit. I rarely ride more than 2 hours at a time, so battery life isn't an issue. The setup works great for me.
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I'm in a similar boat. I really don't want to spend the $$ on another bike computer. I'm considering getting a Bluetooth sensor (cheap ones on ebay for about $20-$25), phone mount and then find a decent app for Android and see how well it works. worst case I can either get another computer or use one off of another bike that has multi-bike capabilities. Still would need an Ant+ sensor & computer mount though. Any recommendations on an Android app?
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What do you want to measure, and why?
If you're new to cycling, and want to start spinning while measuring how far you ride, a $50 dedicated, wired bike computer will do everything you need. (That'll cost less than a stand-alone cadence bluetooth device, too.) If that's the case, I'd suggest you start with that, then figure out what else you want. |
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 18040467)
There's no consensus.
How much did your iphone 6 cost? How much would it cost to replace it, in a crash for example? Will you ever ride in the rain? Not just leave your house while it's raining, but is it possible that you'll ever be out riding and not expect it? If you want to use the phone to show you your speed and cadence, that means it's going to be on your handlebars. Your phone isn't waterproof. So you can buy a case for it. If you only ever do short rides the battery will probably be fine, but GPS takes a lot of juice, and keeping the screen on takes a lot more. Which means people who do long rides using their phone as a computer (and display) buy separate battery packs for them, or special cases with batteries built in. With GPS and Display it's going to use around twice that. You also have the option of battery cases or small adjunct batteries that will give you pretty much unlimited battery. Somebody here was talking about a phone app he pays $5 a month for. He felt like it's a great deal compared to a bike computer. It's $60 a year, $300 for 5 years. A lot of bike computers will last much longer than that, are already waterproof, don't have problems with the battery, and can still be used interactively in the rain or with gloves on. Now if you just put your phone in a ziplock bag in your pocket and have it record a track using a free app, the economics change to benefit the phone, but you get less from it as a result. The economics also tip in favor of the phone if one is looking more downscale in the bike computer line up. The phones have most of the functionality of the highest end standalone devices. In the case of the more midrange devices, the phones and their apps are much more feature rich. The newer smartphones, as they get larger, do present somewhat of a problem if mounted on the bike. An iPhone 6+, for example, is going to really want an external display such as the RFLKT+ just because of it's size. I'm basing this on having and using and owning both a smartphone and app (iPhone 6 and Cyclemeter - an outstanding app) as well as an Edge 1000 from Garmin. The Edge 1000 is attractive to me when using my Di2 bike because I'm able to set it up to see the gearing in use - not necessary but nice. But on my non-Di2 bikes, I find it easier to use a RFLKT+ and my iPhone. Rumors are that Wahoo is working on integrating the Di2 interface so that could easily take that advantage away. Another area where the phones excel is in user interface and especially the ability to build your own display. You can decide how large the fields are, the color and size of the font, which field goes where etc... On the Garmin units, you get to tell it how many fields and that's about it. You can't choose the font, the size of the font, the size of the field or the color of each individual field. You can't add more display screens (but you can turn off the ones they give you). On the phone - at least with Cyclemeter - none of these are limitations. Where this whole thing is heading anyhow is that there will almost be a personal network server be it the phone or the bike computer. You an already see Garmin headed this way with the new products for lighting and rear vehicle detection that are coming. They will talk to the computer as the display unit. The phones are headed this way too with things like smart watches, sensors, activity trackers and other personal appliances and having them interface with apps and data you already have. It's pretty easy to see which device will win that battle - there is a lot more development and interest in doing this in the smartphone world than there is bike computer world (which is, at best, a small sideshow in comparison). Then there is the whole issue of software quality control. Phone operating systems are, by nature, required to be highly reliable and there is a large user base beating them up finding the issues. This same thing is not true for the bike computer world. It is dependent on a much smaller user base to find issues and the competition for resources in a single company in a much smaller market to fix the problems. This has been an ongoing complaint of users with many of the bike computers. Users are captive to that supplier for their hardware and software. In the smart phone world, one has the option of switching to a different app if there is a problem. Competition is a good thing and is reflected in the quality of apps available. Finally, one of the big safety advantages of phone based apps is that your location can be transmitted in such a way that your progress or last known position is known to others you have selected to see where you are. In the event you don't return home and have trouble or an injury, you can be found. In order to do this with standalone units, they need to have the presence of (wait for it)... a phone to which they are connected. J. |
Originally Posted by pdlamb
(Post 18046758)
What do you want to measure, and why?
If you're new to cycling, and want to start spinning while measuring how far you ride, a $50 dedicated, wired bike computer will do everything you need. (That'll cost less than a stand-alone cadence bluetooth device, too.) If that's the case, I'd suggest you start with that, then figure out what else you want. J. |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 18046827)
On the Garmin units, you get to tell it how many fields and that's about it. You can't choose the font, the size of the font, the size of the field or the color of each individual field.
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 18046827)
Where this whole thing is heading anyhow is that there will almost be a personal network server be it the phone or the bike computer.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7597/...df6783_o_d.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8602/...494ebc_o_d.jpg |
As one other poster points out using a phone with the GPS and screen on all the time sucks the batteries down very, very quickly. I too have an iPhone 6 and I use a Garmin Edge 200 which does exactly what I want it to do, records GPS data and shows the speed, distance and time elapsed. I am always afraid my battery will be dead on my iPhone and I will need to place a call for an emergency or something. I think that unless your GPS app can download maps that you will be racking up data charges when you use the maps on the phone.
So I carry the phone for a phone and use the Garmin for my computer. The phone sits in my rack pack protected from elements and a crash (hopefully). The Garmin sits front and center on my bars, out of the way and unobtrusive. When I return home I plug the Garmin into my laptop, download the data into SportTracks. The Garmin also uploads to Garmin direct. Best of both worlds. |
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 18046910)
In summary, if you want to play at being a web designer and adjust fonts and colors and maybe add a floral border, you should use a phone; if you want to ride your bike, you should use a bike computer.
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 18046918)
Ain't no cell reception in many of the best places to ride, and that's not going to change in our lifetimes.
J. |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 18046827)
Let's quantify - GPS no display will take about 10% of the battery per hour. That would give you around 8-10 hours on a fully charged phone battery for the GPS and is consistent with current standalone bike computers (e.g. Garmin et al).
J. |
Let's see - you spent $300-400 more and you basically get more battery life - which I'm glad you appreciate. Not more that matters for most applications but yes, it's more. That's a very hefty premium for what could be supplied by a $20 USB Battery the size of a pack of gum or a battery sled case. You would have much more than you needed for a whole set of emergency calls. And if you used an RFLKT ($100) then that phone would get 8-10 hours too all by itself.
So, yes, you did get something for your $300+ but you paid a stiff premium for it and you STILL had to bring your phone. I get the desire for an external standalone gps (I own one too). There is slightly less hassle for very long rides or if you need the very top end features. The feature set in the standalone software is exceeded by the phones for the low, mid, and even bottom of the high end. For most people the phone solves the problem at lower cost. My phone talks to HRM, cadence, speed, speed and cadence, power, and pretty much any sensor the standalone units do. And it has connectivity for position reporting that the standalone units do not. You have to bring your phone to do that. J. |
As you can see, there are pluses and minuses to each approach. I have an iphone 4, and it didn't provide enough battery life running an app when it was new. Now that it's old, it's worse. I can use an external battery, and sometimes I do, but that's pretty inconvenient.
I generally use my Garmin Edge 200. I can use it for several rides before it needs a charge. But we live in two homes, and it's hard to remember to bring it, along with all sorts of other things. Last weekend, I did pack it, but I forgot that I had packed it! So I used my cell phone with an app on a couple of short rides. And let's be honest. None of this tracking is necessary. It's just for fun. |
Originally Posted by noglider
(Post 18051446)
As you can see, there are pluses and minuses to each approach. I have an iphone 4, and it didn't provide enough battery life running an app when it was new. Now that it's old, it's worse. I can use an external battery, and sometimes I do, but that's pretty inconvenient.
I generally use my Garmin Edge 200. I can use it for several rides before it needs a charge. But we live in two homes, and it's hard to remember to bring it, along with all sorts of other things. Last weekend, I did pack it, but I forgot that I had packed it! So I used my cell phone with an app on a couple of short rides. And let's be honest. None of this tracking is necessary. It's just for fun. J. |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 18051495)
Just as an aside, it's simple to replace the battery in an old iPhone 4. I've done at least 5 of them for family and friends. New battery is about $20 or less. Same is true for iPhone 5. I haven't done a 6 yet, but I'd bet it's not a big deal either.
Exactly right. And so is the all the debating about gear, when we get right down to it. ;) J. |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 18046955)
Pardon me, but that's just a ridiculous comment, stupid even on many levels. Points for effort on that one, though.
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
(Post 18042314)
Having a phone + nice integrate camera is nice.
Running GPS eats up the batteries. And having the phone with the screen on all the time eats up the batteries quicker (and the screen keeps turning off which is annoying). |
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