Need Daytime Headlight Suggestion
 

I have a Niterider headlight (650 model) that is great for night-time use. And my plan was to use it in flash mode for daytime use as well.

But this thing has only one flash setting and (IMHO) is borderline dangerous on the road. At the wrong angle it is WAY too bright and could be blinding for some folks with certain vision issues. I also have a low end (driven by CR2032's) Blackburn unit that is just too dim to be reliably seen in bright sunshine.

I'm looking for suggestions for a daytime use headlight that (ideally) has multiple brightness settings in flash mode.

Thanks.

dave

The Cygolite Metro models I'm familiar with have two "DayLightning" modes. One is very pronounced; I use it in full daytime. One is more subtle, alternating between flashes and a lower intensity steady. I use that at dusk. I've used the Metro 320 this summer as a daytime running light.

I just replaced a Cygolite Dash 320 after coming to the realization that I don't like the strobe flash mode. I like slower, steadier flash modes for visibility (1-2 flashes per second.) I bought a Lezyne Micro Drive. The Macro Drive is similar and puts out 150 lumens in flash mode (vs 100 on the Micro.) I had a Lezyne Super Drive for seeing roads at night (rated at 500 lumens at the time) and thought the flash mode was too bright during the day which is why I didn't hesitate to get the Micro Drive. I like the low "stack" of the mount since it's on my fast road bike (i.e., aesthetic reasons.) You have to unscrew the rear cap to charge it which is a bit annoying but not a big deal in practice. I bought a special USB cable on ebay so I don't have to remove the light to charge it. The faster flash mode lasts about 3-3/12 hours (not the 4 1/2 hours Lezyne claims.)

I'm using a Cygolite Metro 550. I almost bought a 320 and it might be the very thing if you're only going to use it for daytime lighting. I decided on the 550 because I'd like to try using it at night when it gets to be that season. I do wish the 550 had a half brightness strobe mode. The strobe on it is 600 lumens. It's actually pretty good in full sun but in overcast/rainy conditions I think it's way too glarey.

First off, no headlight is going to blind people in daylight conditions. that being said, use as a daytime light is an excellent use for a dynamo light. You can just leave it on and never give it a thought.

It's not the daylight conditions that concern me. In full bright daylight, I'm happy to have my 600 lumen strobe, wouldn't want less.

The problem is in rainy conditions, it can be pretty dark, and windshields are wet and a 600 lumen strobe might be pretty distracting.

Of course, in those situations I either switch to the steady/pulse mode, or I just aim the thing down a little.

Do dynamo lights have strobe modes? I thought they were pretty much steady. Steady lights aren't of that much use in daylight.

I've heard two things on this:

1. You're sure you were trying it in daylight conditions right? That flashing mode is certainly blinding and horrible at night, but when the sun is up it's different.
2. People on the forum have talked about aiming lights like that down in the daytime. Aim it so the main part of of the beam hits the road about 5 feet in front of the bike (to low for night time riding) and it seems to go pretty well with similar lights, being visible but not overwhelming.

Yeah, you're mostly right. The usual recommendations for dynamo lights (B&M) don't have a strobe mode, they're steady only.

The only dynamo light I know of that has a blinking mode is the Planet Bike Dynamo light. Blinks during the day, drawback is it's a weak light for riding at night.

Because the flashing mode is also a lower load on the battery so charge life A/hr is longer , I suggest the Dynamo light shining on the street
to see where the holes are at Night on the way to and Fro, and the Flashing Bar mount light for the day times //

Shimano's dynamo Hubs have an easy to use plug , you could just get an extra piece and plug the PB dynamo See Me light in

for day flash times and Then swap to the ride (german, flashing lights verboten) one to see where the pot holes are light at dusk .



I've read you can parallel wire 2 LED headlights to the same hub dynamo but have not done so to test it for you.

do so if you wish.

You really should see my Niterider 650 in the daytime. "Blinding" might be an overstatement, but irritating in the extreme would not be. And my #1 rule of surviving on a bike while on the road is "do NOT piss off the drivers, whether you are right or not".

dave

I'd say your irritation is an aberration. I've never seen anyone's LED light be irritating in daylight, including lights brighter than the Niterider 650. It's remarkable when they're noticeable in daytime traffic.

I read that "bright sunlight provides illuminance of approximately 100,000 lux or lumens per square meter at the Earth's surface." Whatever the numbers are, being so much brighter than the sun is not in the capabilities of cycling lights. Now if you turn on the flasher and put it an inch in front of your open eye, that would be irritating. But that's nothing like cycling use on the road in daytime.

Yeah. In many states motorcycles are advised to run high beams during the day, and they're pretty bright. My 700 lumen bike light doesn't hold a candle to my motorcycle high beams. In conditions with much less ambient light, like twilight or dark overcast, aiming a bike light appropriately can help. The reason I run lights in the daytime is to help motorist be aware of my presence, and perhaps catch their attention as they glance up periodically from texting. A little too bright is better than a little too dim.

I just set mine up like I was waiting in a left turn lane and checking to see what oncoming traffic one lane over would see. It was around 4:00 pm (September) on an overcast day, and it was irritating to my eye. I ended up ordering a lower power Niterider similar to one that a friend has that better matched what I thought was reasonable.

I would agree that on a bright day my reaction would have been different. And maybe I will switch lights depending on conditions. I do like the 650 on nights rides (which for me are short and the exception). And 'careful' light aiming would also mitigate what I saw.

dave

I agree on backing off the brightest flash when the ambient light subsides. But no mainstream light is too bright in full daylight. So I like a light that's noticeable in full daylight but with other modes suitable for twilight and night.

And I'm not testing what an approaching driver just across the yellow line will see when passing me when I'm on the left side of my line. The passing time is so short, and that driver should not have their eyes on my light when they're so close; they should be looking down their lane. I do want them to see me if they're looking left and about to turn left in front of me or into me.

I've seen other posters say they thought their light was to bright for daytime as well. The other poster felt they solved it by pointing the light down to hit about 5 feet in front of them on the pavement, then they found that cars reacted more normally to them - seeing them and stopping, but not stopping when they were a hundreds of feet away.

I'm going to remain highly skeptical.

First, we're talking about competing with full, nuclear fusion powered, heating the planet and warming your skin, sunlight. Our LEDs just don't hold a candle to the sun. Someone who is comfortable outside in full sunlight is not bothered by the brightness of a cycling light.

Second, others outside use lights with far greater capabilities than ours. Modern lights on police cars, etc., powered by systems carried around with 100+ horsepower, are bright. They're flashing. They're not too bright, not in the daytime.

Aside from the universal comparisons with standard sunlight and standard emergency lights, the claim doesn't match my experience. I've run a 600 lumen "Daylightning" Cygolite mode and it's just not too bright in daylight. The pattern does mean that it stands out from the background even in daylight. When I saw that on a friend's bike, that's what attracted that model to me. It's powerful enough that I don't use it on group rides. I don't want the rider one bike length in front of me to repeatedly see that when they look behind them. And my group riding friend already knows I'm with them. They don't need a flashing light to notice me. But solo riding in daylight -- no one should be staring into my headlight from a distance of six feet for more than a fraction of a second. And I do want that person driving my way at 30+ mph to notice me in the short time our paths are converging.

Two caveats. Someone standing within a few feet of the headlight and staring at it for an extended period might be irritated. Don't do that. Why would someone in traffic do that? Hopefully on the road you're moving and the traffic in the opposite lane is also moving when they pass you. So I suppose that if you're in a commuting traffic jam where traffic in both directions is at a complete standstill, the bright flash might not be appropriate. But then, the need for the bright flash is not there either, if you're effectively stopped in a parking lot. I'll turn mine away from the back of the car in front of me when I'm stopped behind a car at an intersection. But I do that day or night with whatever light I'm running; since my light is higher than the lights on a standard sedan they're more likely to be highly visible in the car's rear view mirror.

And secondly, if someone has a particular aversion to flashing lights, maybe that would be a problem for them if they look at the light for a while. I'm not a doctor, and I don't know about the possibilities for seizure inducing, etc.

Take a low powered 200 lumen bike light. Go outside on a sunny day. Turn it on, and point it directly at your face. It's going to blind you (temporarily until you turn it off) and leave spots in your vision for several minutes.

I don't know why the Cygolite would be dim, but I don't own the light either. It certainly could be - maybe daylight mode is not well designed and outputs less power than it should.

This gets into a lot of hyperbole, logical fallacies, and not understanding what makes something annoying to the eyes. I just don't care to invest the time to try to unwind all of that.

All that really matters is how it actually works in real life. I know there was at least one guy who wrote a thread detailing how pointing his front light down more (I think it was a niterider but not sure) meant that instead of cars waiting way way far ahead of him, they started pulling out when they should but still stopping when he was closer. I've seen multiple other threads from people saying putting their highish powered front light on blink mode meant cars waiting for them 200-300 feet down the road to go by. They thought it was great, some people might think it shows the light is overly annoying, that gets into a matter of opinion.

All you have to do to see that it's possible for bike light to be brighter than the sun, though, is point a 200 lumen light directly into your face. That is definitely putting far more lumens into your eyeballs than the sun does when you're not staring directly at it.

I've been running the Cygolite Metro 550 for a while now and I like its performance in all conditions (trail, road, nighttime, rain). If you just want a bright inexpensive no-frills daytime running light, I would also recommend the Planet Bike 2 Watt Blaze. I started biking with that light and will still use it on occasions that warrant it.

Keith

I did that today, with a 400 lumen light. It's very noticeable, particularly straight on axis from five feet. It didn't blind me. It didn't leave me with spots in my vision for any minutes. When your eyes are adjusted to daylight, cycling lights just aren't that bright. My vision was and is fine.

You seem to recall someone writing that drivers were disturbed by someone's blinking light. If you find that writing and find that they were writing about a situation in broad daylight, then I think you've found a logical fallacy. The fact that drivers speed, text, run red lights, weave, or stop in the middle of the street in broad daylight has nothing to do with cycling lights. Many drivers drive poorly, and most of the time your behavior did not cause them to drive poorly.

Yes, flashing modes can be too much at night or even at dusk, when the ambient light is orders of magnitude less than in full daylight. I'm talking about use of cycling lights in full daylight.

I'm dealing with real life, where I've seen cyclists with Niteriders and Cygolites and Lezynes and Magicshines flashing away in broad daylight, and they're noticeable but not anywhere near blinding or dangerous. And I'm dealing with real life applications of cycling lights. Holding a light right in front of your eyeball and saying that it's too bright to be comfortable has zero to do with cycling applications.

I find myself with no interest or energy for these rounadabout ego based arguments. Like I said earlier, I've seen people notice that their high powered lights can be a little overly distracting even in full on daylight. I have no interest in grandiose claims of how many lumens the sun puts out, or the usual cascade of "hey I did an experiment totally unlike what you wrote and got a different result!" like in your post. Bye.

Some of the definitions of "irritating" here involve pointing the light right at your face from less than 2 feet away and looking right at it.

If there's a driver 2 feet away from your light, you've got trouble. Remember that light drops off according to the inverse square law; at 4 feet away, the light is 1/4 as bright as it was at 2 feet away. At 16 feet away, it's 1/64th as bright.

Also, any car driver that hasn't figured out how to not look straight at a bright light is going to hit a tree pretty soon anyway so it won't be a problem for long.

Personally I like the Cygolite Metro 550, during overcast times I point it down about 30 degrees. When it gets on towards twilight I use the steady/pulse mode. At night I just use steady modes up front.

I don't see much point in having high powered headlights in the day. I run my dynamo powered headlight because it's already there and I don't perceive the drag. I feel no need to have more. I haven't been hit from the front in a long time, nor have I ever been hit from the side.

But that's just my own take on it.

I don't see how these lights can really be that irritating to drivers during daylight.

I use the Olight M22 for a bike light.
https://olightworld.com/store/specia...2-warrior.html

I use the strobe function at dusk, and that's over 900 lumens flashing. I've actually gotten compliments on it. One was from a driver coming toward me. We were in a residential neighborhood and it was a construction zone with room enough for only one car to get through. She told me I was a great light and that she as able to see me from "way back" due to m light. She also thanked me.

The other time was when I stopped at a red light and a pedestrian was waiting on the curb. She said she could see me from far off, and said it was a nice light. She also said she especially liked it because she was a biker, then asked me where I got it.

bot of these incidents happened right around a half hour before the Sun went down. The pedestrian was in full Sun while the driver was in partial shade.

Several weeks ago I stopped while on an afternoon ride because I wanted to see how bright it was during the day. I was stopped in a shady spot,so I turned on the strobe and paced off about 20 feet and looked right into it. It didn't sear my retina.

+1


My lights get me quite a few positive comments from the local PD, no one complains of being blinded.

Well said! :thumb: