Yes, Daddy.

Is it bad advice? Did I say it impolitely?

It does need to be said, because every day, I am inflicted with bright lights that hurt my eyes, even when I look away. Maybe I'm more sensitive than others, but it's something people shouldn't do anyway.

Neither. It was 90% facetious

The other 10% reflects that we're bombarded with safety related and other advice that we should be long past needing. It's become the PC thing to do, to such an extent that there's also a CYA element.

So don't take it personally, It's just my reaction to what I class as excessive an unwarranted parenting.

Sure, we do get a lot of admonishments. I hope mine proves to be useful. I have give this advice to others, and I got open-minded responses because the people I gave it to hadn't thought of it before. It's odd, because motor vehicle drivers know not to use their high beams unnecessarily.

Now if you could teach your brethren to learn how to not look at others the rest of the time, you might be on to something. ;)

That's sooo yesterday, I use a laser to shine in people's eyes now.

I found a local shop that carries the Light and Motion Urban 350 and 500 for the same price as online retailers, so I'll take a look at those this week. They're within my budget. If they're adequately bright on medium and low I might be able to use them for my longer nighttime rides. Depends on the beam pattern.

The Busch + Muller mirror used to shape the beam is very clever for lighting up the road without spill that might annoy other cyclists or drivers. So I'm still leaning toward the B+M.

I've mentioned before the inexpensive Vivo-Bike Illuminati uses a similar mirror design to shape the beam. While not as smooth as the B+M, it does project a beam pattern that's bright enough to see the road ahead at my usual pace (I average 12 mph in daytime and only 8-10 mph at night). Normally I use it on flash in traffic, day and night. I've tested the Illuminati on video at night, and the beam pattern is tight enough that it can be seen from the front and sides, but suddenly gets very bright when aimed directly into the lens. So I can avoid blinding anyone by mounting the Illuminati on my helmet, aimed downward at the road ahead. But by lifting my head and looking directly at a driver I can see they notice quickly and will pause before leaping into traffic from a parking lot or intersection. It's nearly the perfect to-be-seen light for helmets because it weighs almost nothing. But it's not quite bright enough for riding faster than around 10 mph at night, and lasts only an hour or so on steady bright. On longer nighttime rides I'll use it on flash to prolong battery life, but switch to steady bright on tricky areas such as dark underpasses, etc., then back to flash.

Last night I rode for several hours with a friend who uses a popular standard type handlebar mounted headlight, and the flasher wasn't nearly as effective as the Illuminati -- it's not as visible from the sides or as bright on flash. And on steady it casts a typical circular pattern that might annoy other cyclists or drivers on steady bright, unless aimed downward enough to compromise lighting up the road well enough for the rider to see effectively.

There's always this light for the bars with pretty darn good reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/Sahara-Sailor-...M3H6454KYKC8MK

simply aim the light low and no beam in eye problem.

I used a cheaply Planet Bike light for general city commuting that cost about $20 including taxes at Mountain Equipment. The thing lasted fives years and just used recharable batteries and I would still be using it if I didn't leave it in the shed over winter causing batteries to leak. For nighttime off road bicycle paths been using a Cygolite dual cross it is just like daylight only downside is about 4 hrs of battery life vs 30 on a replaceable battery powered led.

I use these kinds of lights. $3 a pair. Then again I don't ride outside the city limits at night ;)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=511766

My advice to you is to have someone ride your bike so you can observe it with these lights. Once you do this, you might decide to upgrade. Those lights are only visible to those looking for them. They don't do much to enhance your safety. I see them a lot here, and I feel sorry for the people using them, thinking they help.

Those lights and riding in city limits is actually more dangerous.

Outside city limits there are usually few or no light sources other than vehicles. So even lower power lights are somewhat or moderately effective.

Inside city limits, you have lots of car headlights, you have lots of sodium-street lamps with poor coverage. Resulting in everyone's eyes not being adapted to low-light....meaning to see and be seen you need much brighter lighting than you otherwise would on a country road.

+1, it takes much more light to stand out in contrast in the low light of dusk or urban street lights. In full dark you can get by with a candle (if it doesn't blow out).

I'm glad you guys chimed in on those small puny lights, I get tired of playing the bad cop. In a sea of car headlights in the city a motorist will never notice those teeny tiny lights, but they might notice you after they turn in front of you and bounce off their car. Todays world of motoring is a far cry from what it was 40 years ago, people back then would have noticed you, today with their brains distracted off their primary duty of driving that unless they see something very bright you will go unnoticed till it's too late. Get a brighter light if you want to stay around long enough to see your kids grow up.

All depends on what you need. If you are riding in an urban setting where it's never really dark then that's a different problem than if you ride on a heavily wooded and hilly rural route like I do. Without a light, it can be so dark that it's hard to see much at all so quality, reliability and redundancy are paramount. I learned that lesson the hard way with a light that died on me and I had to pretty much walk home in mosquito infested roads. Not pleasant.

For me, I have a backup light on my helmet that I can use to shine cars that could be pulling out in front of me and as a redundant light. I use Lupine lights with a Wilma or Betty on the bars and a Piko on the helmet. Admittedly, that's a lot of light and not cheap, but the alternative made it all seem worth it.

I like to ride with a lot of light so that I'm considered a vehicle on the road. Blinkie style lights (head or tail) are worthless, IMO.

And it's true that batteries will last several years (it's a characteristic of the chemistry). The cheapie ones a lot less the better ones several years more.

My vote, because of where I ride, is for top end lights.

J.

You've chosen Lupine ... can you compare to Dinotte? Lumen & Ah to lumen & Ah, Lupine seems a bit more expensive.

I ran Ed Kearney lights way back early 80's, if anyone remembers those. It was a big ol' round halogen car-like headlight in a rubbery casing, plus a huge lead acid battery that I carried in a rack trunk bag. It weighed about five pounds. Then I moved to a couple of different dual beam halogen systems where the batteries were enclosed in a water bottle. Now I'm running the Fenix BC30R. It's tiny in comparison; it's easily under 1/2 pound. I like that it's one single piece, has two separate LED emitters, four constant levels of 100, 200, 500, and 800 lumens, a burst button for 1600 lumens, and a 200 lumen flashing mode. Plus it has an OLED digital fuel gauge that shows the level setting, and the remaining power in five-minute increments. The BC30R lists for $140, but you can get it for under $100 when it is on sale and combined with online coupons.

Lupine is more expensive. I have had Dinotte headlights in the past.

I've found are that the Lupine batteries are probably the best in the business. Most of my Dinotte batteries started having issues with capacity after about 2-3 years. I have Lupine batteries that are over 5 years old and appear to be just fine. Lupine offers many more battery options too. I have had Dinotte batteries that were finicky from the start. Dinotte's batteries are a lot cheaper, but that is one of the places I don't think compromise is good if you are going to be going somewhere where the loss of light is a critical problem.

I also found the beam spreads on the Lupine to be better for my purposes but that is going to be an individual preference. My Lupine lights concentrate the beam ahead but they give a nice spill side to side. If you were riding down the middle line in a two lane road, the Lupine lights would give you decent illumination from side to side with decreasing intensity and a broad bright center.

I also like the programmability of the light and the option for a bluetooth remote.

Don't get me wrong - Dinotte makes great lights and they are absolutely the king of the hill for rear taillights although that dominance is now being challenged. Dinotte is also a great company with which to work and correspond. But so is Lupine's North American distributor - Gretna Bikes.

I ride with lights on my road bike at full speed up and down hills and through turns with my Lupine lights with great illumination - truthfully, it's not much different from riding during the day. I also ride with them on my fatbike all winter long up and down snowmobile trails and up and down a beach by my house. Again, even with the obstacles in these off trail scenarios, there is no issue at night. To me those two applications say a lot about the quality of the beam and width of the beam. It seems to match up well with the human eye. I also like a lot of light - descending a hill at speed is not recommended unless you have great lights that adequately light the field of view.

Finally, I'm sort of a Lumen hog. I think it's fair game to have about the same lumens as a car headlight if you want to get respect as a vehicle on the road. These lights to that.

The downside is that Lupine's lights are expensive. But you get what you pay for and I'm confident in their reliability.

The workhorse of the Lupine line is the Wilma for the bars and the Piko for helmet. That's a great combination that will serve you well for years.

Lupine has been pretty good about providing upgrades for the Wilma the Betty lights. I just upgraded my 5 year old Wilma from 1500 lumens to around 2000 and my 2400 lumen light to about 3200 lumens. I should probably sell one of these....

J.

Battery Quality - Assuming that Lupine batteries last 5y, and Dinotte last 2.5y, but Lupine are 2x as expensive ... um, that yields essentially no difference (minus a discussion of time-value-of-money). My guess is that this is a wash, let me know if/how you disagree...

Beam Spread - It's my impression that Dinotte beam spreads are wider, and Lupine longer. Given that I'm not the fastest cyclist, and not off-road, but that I'm planning on a headlight only (no helmet-mounted light), I'm guessing that it's kind of a wash here too. Maybe a slight advantage to Dinotte.

(not mentioned above)
Mounting Options - Lupine has a "GoPro" mount adapter, together with the BarFly Roadmax mount allows the light to mount underneath a Garmin on one mount. This is really appealing to me (saving handlebar space), and with the bluetooth control of the Lupine, there's a real advantage here. For the cost of ~$250 addnl, approx.

According to Wikipedia, HID car headlamps put out 2,800 - 3,500 lumens. That's Wilma territory (remember that a car has two), so one Betty at full power is about a whole car. Wow.

Let me know by PM if you're serious :)

the Lupine Betty RX 14 costs nearly 1000 Euros? ....

http://www.lupine-shop.com/en/lights...94/betty-rx-14

don't just spend your money unnecessry ...Heck .... I'd rather buy a used Harley Davidson motorbike with headlights for that money ... and I can guarantee you that my Chinese Cree for £16 on high setting is very close to the output/brightness of the Lupine

http://www.dailomo.net/wp-content/up...ocked-face.png

I wouldn't count on the £16 Chinese device putting out anywhere near 5000 lumens, even if advertised as such. But regardless, there's certainly a place in the marketplace for much cheaper lights. It's just not one that Lupine or Dinotte plays in.

That orange rear light is the same one included "free" with the Vivo-Bike Illuminati. It's adequate as a tail light, bright enough for most purposes, with steady, slow and fast blink. I keep one clipped to my rear rack. It has good side visibility too. I've done some nighttime video up close and riding away from the camera to get a sense of visibility.

And I have a much brighter Blackburn 2'Fer clipped to the back of my helmet. While brighter what really helps is the irregular strobe pattern. In my test videos it really pops at a distance, but doesn't appear too piercingly bright.

The white front light wouldn't hurt as a to-be-seen light, in addition to a headlight to actually see the road.

LOL.... believe what you want .... I have a cheap Chinese Cree that looks like a magicshine with 3 lamps and is as strong as a Volvo bus' headlights on bright, and I have a £30 Cygolite Hotshot that works very well and that can be seen from 1/2 a mile away in the dark .... I always shop wisely but look at all options..... I'm very careful how I spend my money

I do disagree because a battery that runs out prematurely while riding is a failure. Li-ions can get flaky when they get old and because they have a flat discharge curve that goes off a cliff. Battery reliability is key and I've found Lupine batteries to be more reliable than Dinotte.

One of my Dinotte batteries would show as low on the light after 30 minutes of riding but would seem to last the 90 minutes or so that I rode with it. I never went without a spare battery after that though. Again, this is dependent on where you ride and the criticality of lighting. If I were riding in an urban environment with street lights, then it's not such a big deal. In the heavily rural area where I ride, it's completely critical.

The main downfall, IMO, of Dinotte are their batteries and chargers. I like the company a lot but primarily for tail lights.

You'd have to ride them each to actually see. The beam shots online are not accurate because cameras do not have the dynamic range of the human eye (not even close) so the beam appears to fall off faster than it actually does. I much prefer the beam of my Lupine lights to the Dinotte ones in side by side testing. Do note, however, that those are the older Dinotte lights and not the current ones.
I haven't compared mounting options, but the GoPro mount is how I mount mine on the underside of K-edge computer mounts. I like that mount a lot and would recommend it. I also don't have to change out parts when it goes on the helmet so I've standardized on GoPro mounts in both places. Do note that this was a problem for me until the GoPro adaptor was available from Lupine. I also use my lights as a headlight for various summer activities with the head band. With the GoPro adaptor this is now a tool free switch and quick to change.

Correct. The Betty is kind of overkill - I was mixed on getting it but the 3400 lumen Wilma wasn't available yet. I already had the batteries so it was a matter of buying the light. That said, there never was a better light for descending on a road bike. I have mine programmed for 1200, 2500 and 5000 lumens. Uphill, it's 1200. Regular riding it's 2500 and for downhill it's 5000. For me that works really well. Here's a good review: http://windinmyface.com/Lupine-lights-BettyR_4500.html

My rant with all high bright mfgs is that I wish they would put a long press onto the selector button as a full bright trigger and then have quicker presses to cycle between the remainder of the settings.

Let me think about it.

Yes, but that's with a 13.2Ah battery - a crazy size. Unless you need a battery that will run for 16 hours at 2000 lumens, who'd buy that? You also can't guarantee the reliability of either Chinese light or the battery. Imagine how much fun it is to be 15 miles from home on a moonless hot summer night in mosquito infested woods on a 55mph speed limit road with a malfunctioning light. (my actual experience, BTW). You will find that the value proposition changes considerably and quickly.

I doubt your Chinese Cree light is anywhere near a Betty or Wilma - not even close. I believe the LEDs cost more than the price you paid for your light. If the output is that bright, then be worried about the longevity of the light because of overheating. Putting in the heat sinks and electronics to thermally protect the light cost money. Elevated temperature is an accelerant to prematurely age electronics for life testing devices and invites premature failure. Overheating beyond the specs causes permanent damage and risks imminent failure in semiconductors (i.e LEDs). Imagine how much fun a failure would be when you really needed the light. No one ever values this until it happens to them.

The Wilma is the workhorse of the product line and is probably the best choice for most riders who need this kind of light.

Here's the runtime for the Betty with that 13.2Ah battery. Most people are very happy with a battery half (or less) that size. I typically run mine on 2000 lumens and get back to the barn after an hour or so with a lot left (maybe 60%) in the can according to the fuel gauge and the charger.

[TABLE="class: specifications"]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 45 W / 5000 Lumens [/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]2:00 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 34 W / 3900 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]2:45 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 28 W / 3200 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]3:20 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 22 W / 2650 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]4:20 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 16 W / 2050 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]6:00 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 12 W / 1550 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]8:00 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 8 W / 1050 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]12:00 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 4 W / 520 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]24:00 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 2 W / 270 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]48:00 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 1 W / 160 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]95:00 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Runtime at 0.3 W / 30 Lumens[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]310:00 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Exactly right. It's the market where reliability is not as important - like the urban setting I was talking about. Also don't count on accurate specs. Make sure you test one before you buy it if you are worried about beam quality and output.

IMO, it's nucking futs to spend big money on lights with output far beyond any rational need that are also inappropriate for use on public roads. Those cheap Chinese lights may be obnoxious, but their real output is still fairly limited.