Computer choice
 

Hi everyone. I'm an ex-roadie, getting serious again and looking to add cadence, heart rate (and eventually power) to my ride data. Talk about confusing choices!

I'm ditching my Cateye Strada with HRM; probably the most unreliable device I've ever used (heart rate has never worked properly). But what to replace it with? Having spent hours looking through forums and customer reviews, here are the choices so far: Wahoo Rflkt (not +) is on it's way; I figure I have 30 days to test it in my setup. Also, a Wahoo Tickr heart rate monitor; this seems to have almost 100% positive reviews and has Ant+ and BLE, so should be pretty universal whatever setup I end up with.

The more confusing choices right now are the speed and cadence sensors. I know this may change if I end up returning the Rflkt! The options appear to be: Wahoo Blue SC combined speed and cadence, Wahoo's magnetless individual sensors or Garmin's individual magnetless sensors. Cost wise, there isn't much between them, but customer reviews are incredibly variable for all of the aforementioned units! Phone is a Samsung S6 Edge (I have a spare iPhone 5S I could use too).

My aims are: show real-time live data as I'm riding, heart-rate, cadence and speed, plus be able to get max and average of these as I'm riding. Then at the end of a ride, be able to upload my workout to Strava (happy to pay for Premium, if required) and have Strava show: data from my speed sensor (I experience a few GPS dropouts on some of my regular routes), data from my heart rate monitor and also be able to get accurate climbing elevation data, if possible. My Samsung Galaxy S6 has a barometric altimeter built-in and a temperature sensor.

My questions are:

• Which speed/cadence sensors to choose and why?
• Which phone app to choose and why?
• Can any phone app utilise the Samsung's built-in altimeter? If yes, which?
• If the Rflkt proves unworkable, is the Cateye Padrone+ a viable alternative? Has anyone switched from one to the other?
• Should I just mount the iPhone 5S on my stem and use that?
• Should I save up for a Garmin 520 instead?

I apologise in advance for the number of questions, but I don't have unlimited funds to keep buying and ditching stuff if it doesn't work.

Grateful for any information/experience/observations!

Thanks all.

For some research, have a look here DC Rainmaker

I'm currently using the RFLKT+ with a Wahoo TICKR and Blue SC. The reason for the plus is that when I got it, I was using Garmin Ant+ sensors. The reason for the Wahoo sensors is because they transmit BTLE and Ant+ simultaneously and I can use them on an Ant+ device if I have to. I'm using these on an iPhone 5c, which is optimized for extra battery life. The app I'm using is Cyclemeter, which is only available for iPhone and Apple Watch at this time. I have the Elite version of Cyclemeter which is only $4.95/year rather than per month as other apps charge. It has more features than you'll ever need and more than the other cycling apps I've used before settling on Cyclemeter. It has complete customization for the RFLKT, which some of the apps suggested by Wahoo don't have or have limited customization. It will automatically upload to Strava, Facebook, Twitter and a few others at the end of each ride as well as send you, or anyone else you select, an email with the link to your ride data (kind of like it's own Garmin Connect web site). It also has live tracking, which is good if you are doing charity rides and you want your family to know where you are at. What it doesn't have, and they are working on it, is turn by turn navigation. You won't need to worry about battery life unless you plan on doing a double century, in which case carry a battery charger to charge your battery when you need to. I lose about 10% battery life an hour on my 5c. If I pause Cyclemeter at my rest stops, I use less battery power because the app isn't processing and parsing GPS data.

Issues: I've had the RFLKT+ for over two years. When I first bought it, I was having major issues with it's battery life. Riding between 2 and 4 hours a day, the battery was dying about once a week. Other users were also complaining about poor battery life and the problem was corrected with a firmware upgrade. Since upgrading the firmware, I have been getting about 4 months on one battery. If you don't ride daily, as I do, you'll probably see much better battery life than what I'm getting. The only other issue that I have had with the RFLKT is a very rare disconnect from the phone. This is easy to fix by pressing the top two buttons simultaneously for 10 seconds and resetting the RFLKT. Restart it and you're good to go. The sensors have been working flawlessly and have not given me any problems in the year that I've had them. You will have to download the Wahoo Utility (regardless of which phone you use) in order to update the firmware on the RFLKT and sensors. I check my devices about once a month to see if there are any new firmware updates.

I have been extremely happy with the setup I have and personally see no need to use a Garmin to do the exact same thing I'm doing for twice what I've paid for my setup. The nicest thing I like about my setup is that I don't have to connect to a website in order to see past ride data, charts and maps. They're all in a database on the phone. Cyclemeter also had the most complete and comprehensive sets of statistics than any other app I've seen and beats Garmin stats hands down. I've never had an Android phone so I can't help you with those questions but I hope this answers some of your other questions and addresses some of your concerns. As far as the Cateye Padrone, it's best feature is that you can use it with or without being connected to a phone, but it only works with the Cateye phone app. Topeak's Panobike version of the Padrone works the same way.

Thanks for your responses. I will be trying the Wahoo setup with IPBike on my Samsung and Cyclemeter on iPhone - here's hoping I can get one or other of them to work reliably!

If I were you I would try to save up and get the Garmin 520 bundle pack. It has the magnet less speed and cadence sensors and the Garmin soft strap HRM included. I picked this up a few weeks ago and it's been working flawlessly each and every ride.

What I was using prior to this was an Edge 500 paired up to the Wahoo blue SC speed and cadence sensor combo unit with the magnets on the left crank and rear wheel. And I was also using the Wahoo Tickr HRM. I had problems with both of the Wahoo pieces that I was using. The speed sensor would drop out at various times for no apparent reason. Adjusting the sensor position to get the magnets closer had zero effect, nor would replacing the battery. It would resume sending data on its own when it felt like it. Issues I would have with the Tickr were that if I didn't wet the electrodes well enough before I put it on it would show a heart rate and then just freeze. The only thing that would get it to unfreeze is removing and reinstalling the battery...and then of course making sure the electrodes were plenty wet before I put it back on. It even happened to my wife tonight with the Tickr, she just did her first couple of rides using an HRM and it froze up on her. Ordered her a Garmin HRM today to fix that problem.

The Wahoo stuff we have is just going to sit in a drawer from now on and kept as an emergency backup that will only be used until we can replace with Garmin sensors. I've had enough with trying to get the Wahoo stuff to work....what a waste of money that stuff was for us. We should have just gone with the Garmin stuff from the beginning.

Strange! It was just the opposite for me. I was using both the Garmin HRM and speed cadence sensor and was getting very sporadic readings. The HRM would appear to be working but apparently was transmitting the same heart rate. When I looked at the HR graph, after my ride, there would be several areas where the graph was flat at 0. I started using my wife's speed/cadence sensor (GSC-10) when she quit using her Forerunner watch and started using her phone. I was getting dropped connections on a regular basis. Since she used it for two years, I thought it may just be the unit was just failing and I purchased a new one. While I didn't get dropped connections with the new unit, my rides were full of speed spikes as high as 90 mph. And I'm not talking just one or two per ride. I contacted Garmin and they told me to reset it, which I did, but that did nothing for the spikes. I went with the Wahoo TICKR and Blue SC and have had zero issues with the TICKR, whatsoever, and while I do get an occasional speed spike with the Blue SC, it's something I can live with.

When I first got the Blue SC, it did move around a little on the chain stay but I quickly solved that problem by putting some Elmer's Glue Spots on the bottom of the rubber foot. The glue spots are the same thing that credit card companies affix credit cards to the paper when you get new cards. The sensor no longer moves unless I remove it for cleaning or battery change and the glue spots don't permanently stick to the bike. Just replace them and reset the sensor.

In case anyone else is having a similar dilemma regarding computer choice, I thought I'd share my experience.

I now have a Wahoo Tickr HRM, Blue SC speed and cadence sensor and 2 head units; a RFLKT and a Cateye Padrone Smart+. I can send either head unit back for a refund, so may as well test both.

Firstly, the dual ANT+/BTLE signals of the Wahoo sensors is a great plus in my opinion and they work seamlessly in both, so no regrets buying them. My observations on the head units are as follows:-

RFLKT

• It takes a while to set up
• The only viable software (on Android) is Wahoo's own. I couldn't get RideWithGPS to work
• The screen is big and clarity is good, although the buttons are quite stiff to press
• The screen designer is awesome!
• Why couldn't Wahoo include a 'proper' out front mount (ie. centered at the front of the stem)?
• No 'pacing arrow'

The one negative for me is the messing around at the start of a ride waiting for sensors to 'pair', which can sometimes take a while, although this is partly because I run 2 apps, Wahoo's Fitness app to send data to the RFLKT and IPBike for gathering detailed data to upload to Strava.

Overall, though, despite reservations about dropouts, losing connection etc, the RFLKT has worked flawlessly once out on the road.

Cateye

• Also takes a while to set up
• Connects with Wahoo's sensors (BTLE only) no problem
• Only works with Cateye's app
• Screen is big and clear and general ergonomics are better than RFLKT
• Works perfectly in both modes, but 'Sensor Direct' offers something the RFLKT doesn't (it still records your ride even if your phone dies or you're in a race and can't take a phone)
• In either mode, shows a pacing arrow (whether you are currently above or below your trip average speed). I have used this for 20 years on Cateye computers and find it invaluable

All in all, there isn't much to choose between them. If I could 'reflect' the data from IPBike on my Samsung S6 to any head unit, that would be the deciding factor, but as I can't, I'm left to choose using the above observations. If I use 'Sensor Direct' on the Cateye, then it will be a simpler process to set off on a ride and this may be the deciding factor.

To conclude, you can't really go wrong with either unit, it may just come down to price in the end or which app you prefer. From what I've learned, Wahoo works more smoothly with iOS than Android and you have the option of a great iOS app called Cyclemeter which isn't available on Android. Fortunately, us Android users are well-served by an amazing app called IPBike, although you then need another app to send data to a head unit.

Not sure why you would need the two apps? The iPhone version of the Wahoo Fitness app will send your ride data to Strava for you. It should be the same for the Android version. I use Wahoo Fitness as a backup cycling app to Cyclemeter and as I remember, sending data to Strava could be done manually by selecting the ride and then exporting it. One of the export options was sending it to Strava. I don't remember if there is an automatic export feature but I think there is. As for speeding up the connection process, try running the Wahoo Fitness app until the sensors are paired before running IPBike. I notice that if I run Charity Miles, along with Cyclemeter, and run it first, it does take a little longer for the sensors to pair. I'm not sure but I think it's more of a GPS issue between the two apps than a sensor connection issue.

The pacing arrow is a software issue. Unfortunately, I don't know of one that sends that data to a RFLKT, not even Cyclemeter. However, Cyclemeter does have an Announcement setting where you can set spoken announcements about your ride. They can be set by distance or time and the selection of what you want announced has 48 data items to choose from. Selecting Competitors as an option, which includes yourself, you can select sub-options which include From Best, Worst or Median in Distance or in Time. Essentially, a custom verbal pacing arrow. I know this doesn't help you on an Android, but I mentioned it in case there are some Cyclemeter users out there that weren't aware of this feature.

I use IPBike as it has the most comprehensive set of ride metrics imaginable and seems absolutely rock solid, never dropping connections etc. If only it could be reflected over to the RFLKT! Of course, I have the same issue with the Cateye, as that unit will only accept Cateye's own app, nothing else. IPBike, for example, uses my Samsung's built-in barometric altimeter to track elevation and, although Strava seems to disregard it, TrainingPeaks uses it, so it is useful.

I'm impressed with the RFLKT; it does everything I expected of it and seems to work, for me at least, very reliably. The Cateye, though, has quite a lot extra, especially if used in the same way (ie. reflecting Cateye's phone app). The screen is marginally better, screen designing is just as flexible and it seems to 'just work'. But I also get the following, which I don't get on RFLKT: pacing arrow, on-screen compass, phone battery life indicator, phone call and SMS notifications and, as long as the reliability is there, it seems better value (it was only £15 GBP more than the RFLKT). Plus, I can buy a proper 'out front' mount for it!

I may give my RFLKT to my brother who has an iPhone 6S and will therefore be able to get the most out of the RFLKT using Cyclemeter. It is a very good product and I'm happy to recommend it.

:thumb:

I thought about the Padrone but it wouldn't work with Cyclemeter so that was an instant turn off. BTW, look in the RFLKT box. There's a mount (1 0f 3) that will let you use it with a Garmin K mount. Cyclemeter has a direction field that it sends to the RFLKT and a phone battery life field as well. It doesn't have a pacing arrow but does have verbal announcements. I hate getting phone calls and text messages in the middle of my rides so not having those features doesn't both me. I do have my phone mounted on my aerobars so I can hear it if I get a phone call or text message. I have those limited to certain people when I ride. If you decide to give the RFLKT to your brother, I'm sure he will be very happy with it. :D

Before giving up on the RFLKT, try Locus Maps (https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....android.locus) and Locus Wahoo RFLKT add-on (https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ocusRflktAddon) and see how that works out for you.

There IS one setting within Locus Maps that is disabled by default that you must change to use the RFLKT: Inside "Settings"->"Miscellaneous", check off "Enable periodic updates for add-ons". The RFLKT will otherwise be useless.

I've come to very much liking Locus for navigation with online routing but have run into limitations with using this with an offline routing app Brouter (https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ols.routingapp).

I've ordered the Wahoo Tickr Heart Rate Monitor but have yet to use it. I don't have any speed or cadence sensor either yet. You could get out ahead of me on these.

I've been meaning to post my experience of using the RFLKT with Locus but have been extraordinarily busy lately.

How does the screen for the Cateye Padrone Smart+ compare to the RFLKT?

Well...my enthusiasm for the Cateye Padrone Smart+ is waning fast!

For me, the most important characteristic for these units is reliability and I'm experiencing connection issues with the Cateye. A mid-ride dropout may not seem that bad, but the Cateye app also lost connection to the sensors as well as the head unit, meaning a small part of the ride was lost. I know this, because I can compare the ride data to IPBike that is recording simultaneously. I did experience a very brief dropout once with the RFLKT, but that was only the phone to RFLKT connection; the ride data was still accumulating on my phone, so this was really no big deal.

I have also now tried 'Sensor Direct', cutting out the use of a phone altogether. What a nightmare! The Padrone was losing connection with the sensors every minute or so; I lost 1/3 of the ride data. It appears to be useless in this mode.For anyone considering the Cateye, you may need to use it with the Cateye sensors to get it to work reliably.

Wow, that looks like a really cool app; the open functionality of the RFLKT is what sets it apart from proprietary units like the Cateye, which will probably only ever work with their own app. I will give this a go; thanks!

I would say the Cateye screen is slightly better (very marginal - there's not much to choose). I guess Cateye have been making bike computers for so long, that they know how to make good screens. It's a shame that the rest of the Cateye experience does not match up!

I'm putting the RFLKT back on the bike today and will, pending reliability over the next week, stick with it.

For the last few years I have just been using a Garmin eTrex 20. It gives me the information I need while riding. I can then download the info into Map My Ride to save the information.

Well, I wasn't too happy with the RFLKT when I first got it, having set it aside and looking at it as being among the bad tech purchasing decisions that I've made over the years. The only reason I wasn't truly furious was that I got it for half-price on Black Friday back when the normal list price was $100. I've done an about-face only recently because of Locus.

I also previously wasn't too thrilled with the Android app choices and the idea of being paying a subscription fee for navigation and such. It wouldn't be all that long before a Garmin unit might pay for itself. (Well, maybe a used one)

It does appear to me that Wahoo gives iPhone users first preference while Android support is comparatively given more of an afterthought. Maybe if they hired the guy who developed the RFLKT add-on for Locus then they might also get the RFLKT+ to work 100% with Android.

How might your opinion change of your Cateye Padrone Smart+ if there were also a Locus add-on for that?

Coming back to the RFLKT after a couple of days inactivity and it has stopped working! I cannot get the screens to display; I see just the 'I'm working' message.

Oh well - it was a good idea in theory, but in practice neither the RFLKT or Cateye are fit for purpose...looks like I'll have to save for a Garmin after all. :(

This is very good information! I was in a similar spot a few weeks ago. My current set up include Garmin Fenix 3 mounted on my bar which connects to my HRM and garmin cadence sensor. It took less than 5 minutes for the set up. The data is pushed seamlessly from fenix 3>garmin connect > strava. This may be useful for someone who is invested in garmin products or looking for a watch to track their run also.


Enjoy your ride :)

You're using the Wahoo Fitness app, correct? The only place you should get that message is when testing to see if the app and RFLKT are connected. If you can't get it to stop showing that message, try unpairing the RFLKT with your phone, turn on the RFLKT and press and hold the top two buttons for 10 seconds. That will reset the unit. Pair the unit to your phone. That should give you a clean connection. I get that message whenever I connect the RLFKT to the Wahoo Utility to check for firmware updates.

Yes, using the Wahoo Fitness app and it refused to load the screens that I had set up. Tried everything, unpairing, deleting and reinstalling the app etc. but nothing. I know Wahoo claim their Android app works fine, but it's definitely flaky compared to the iOS app.

So, as I have an iPhone 5S as well, I thought I'd try that instead. The Cyclemeter app is very good and the screen designer is even more flexible than Wahoo's own app. It also seems to be actively developed, unlike Wahoo's own app; I get the impression Wahoo are going to let the RFLKT fade away now as they push the 5 x more expensive ELEMENT! Or maybe that's just me being overly cynical...

Cyclemeter also seems to pair much more quickly with the RFLKT than any other app I've tried and hang onto the pairing for MUCH longer than other apps. This makes it so much easier to use! I'm looking forward to trying out this combination...it looks very promising so far.

I've tried all the cycling apps that are available for the iOS and Cyclemeter beat them all hands down. They are working on Turn by turn direction but have put that off on the back burner until they get all the bugs and kinks out of their code that has to do with the Apple Watch. They also have excellent customer service. You can email them a problem and they usually get back to you within an hour and that includes nights and weekends.

I think Wahoo will hold on to the RFLKT for a while, at least until the next generation of Bluetooth that's no longer BTLE compatible. I also don't think they will be adding any new features to it. I might be wrong, but .......

Running the latest version of Cyclemeter and having the latest firmware updates on the RFLKT and my sensors, the only time I have to reconnect the RFLKT during a ride is if I pause Cyclemeter during a ride and it stays paused for 15 minutes. The RFLKT has a battery saver feature that will turn it off if it doesn't get a signal from the phone for 15 minutes. All you do is press any button on the RFLKT and it quickly reconnects without a problem.

So far so good. Cyclemeter on iOS is clearly the way to go with the RFLKT; no dropouts at all so far and lots of ride data available on the bike and easily configurable. Fingers crossed I got there in the end! :thumb:

Question
 

Sorry to hijack the thread!

I am in the exact same spot, I can get a CatEye Pardone+ with Cadence for $130. I have an HTC 10 for my phone which supports ANT+

At the same time, I can get a REFLKT for $50 on amazon with no sensors.

I ride casually 1-2 times per week, just want to keep my phone safe and have some ride data out front. I have been liking the Ride with GPS alot.

Or 3rd option mount my old DROID Razr M to the handle bars? I tested it today and the accuracy was quite impressive with the Ride with GPS app.

Strava is also another app I have been messing around with and growing to like it. Ride with GPS is more popular in my area it seems.

I only have a smart phone at the moment, no sensors or anything. Which way should I go? Just spend a bit of cash on pedals, shoes and other gear (First Road Bike) always rode single track on my MTB.

Thanks for the help!