Outbound Lights
 

Ran across these guys on another forum. US based, decent pricing, know what their doing. Hoping the kick starter gains a lot of momentum (Im on it now as well) to see these become reality.

Lights are definately more towards the road crowd but not bad off road either.

https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...htweight-long-lasting-bike-lig

Links break if you don’t post them correctly.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...sting-bike-lig

Haha and here I was on my way over to post a thread about us!

So thankful you backed! I really appreciate it!

These lights are indeed an incredible road light, but they are also quite a change in thinking for a trail light. I've been riding with our prototype, and have benchmarked it to the Seca 2500. Same peak intensity (65 lux @ 10m), wider beam width, and only using about 1500 lumens, which lets us get 3 hours of legitimate runtime on high with the 6400 mAH 7.4V battery pack. I'm holding off on posting more beam pattern photos in the woods until our newest prototype MPCB board shows up from my Electrical Engineer, and the production samples of the silicone lenses show up. They shape the beam far more than what's in the video and the real-world photos on the kickstarter.

Optical simulations have been spot on though! So I have high hopes that it'll be legitimately like what I have designed. I absolutely love the width and even field of illumination on the trail version compared to the typical spot beam pattern we've all grown used to.

Also wanted to state, the March 2018 delivery is just giving us some very generous headroom for delivery. I'd love to be able to start shipping these at the end of January. But I am one to under promise and over deliver when I can. To throw some more insanity in the mix, in between launching my company, and starting to produce the first run of these lights, I am expecting my first baby in mid January. :eek: :)

Congrats on both the product and the anticipated new arrival!

Was wondering why the flash mode is at reduced intensity. In bright daylight conditions it might be useful to have a very bright flashing mode. Also wasn't clear what reduced intensity steady modes will be available to give greater run times per charge.

Great news! Didn't read about it at mtbr...


Strobe function is mostly used as an non lethal weapon by police officers to be able to distract attackers.
Flash mode is less intense, but also decreases the ability of calculating your speed and position.
So instead of inceasing your safety, you put others and yourself in danger.

I own the Cateye Rapid X3 (TL-LD720-R) with 200lm red light. In steady full mode it is so bright during daylight, that it will blind everyone below 10 distance.
Imaging this would be a even more intense light with additional flash function, it would create an effect similar to a flashlight strobe.
In public road traffic use of such combination would be irresponsible.

We aren't totally dead set on exact values yet. Software is extremely easy to change right up to the first production run. So we'll experiment with a few settings.

As for the runtime duration for other settings, I've attached a chart that is in the Kickstarter campaign.

These numbers are my Electrical Engineers conservative numbers driven by an intense spreadsheet he has. Numbers should be taken +/- 10-15% given changes in outdoor temperature, speed riding (aka the cooling effect on the headlight) and more has some positive and negative changes for run time. However no matter what, will always be left with at least an hour of runtime on a low setting to get home.

And thanks on the congrats! :)

This looks good. What are the physical dimensions? What is the approximate weight? How much would I pay for one once it's generally available?

All found on our Kickstarter page! :)

Apparently I can't posts URL's until I have 10 posts.... but the link is up there near the top. :lol:

General Dimensions are: 61x56x48mm, 100g for the light head (deceptively light for its size!) and 416g total system weight with the bar mount and everything.

Price will be around $240-250 once released. Not a cheap light to produce due to the chips, silicone lenses and die-casting. Except should legitimately be the last light you will need to buy! :thumb:

don't you have a real website? We don't allow kickstarter links, so the one in the OP is on borrowed time. And you should be able to shortcut the limitations on new users by upgrading your membership

www.outboundlighting.com

Full website should be up hopefully by the end of the week, developers have been building it for us over the last few months.

Going to get on that membership thing now! Thanks. :)

Would be nice to see a small leflet/flyer or something with all technical data in one place.
I'd worked it out, but wasn't easy ;)

I don't need a new light yet and have enough output from my current lights. This is what I'd like to get for my next set, especially if the cost comes down after being on the market for a while.

Just thought I'd pop in and say that we are FULLY FUNDED! :)

This means that when the campaign ends on Dec 22nd, we will have the funds deposited to us, and we'll be able to immediately start the production run. We are currently tweaking a few minor parts on the production tooling to make sure things are just right.

Meanwhile can still jump in on the kickstarter and get the lights for 20-30% off!

I think one problem with all the bike-specific lights is they don't have replaceable batteries. I don't know if this light addresses that. but the battery is a wear item and after so many uses it needs to be replaced. In addition it would be good to have spare batteries on longer tours.

I just use flashlights and helmet lights with 18650 batteries for that reason.

That light is large enough to house standard 18650 batteries. Why not use those? This is an expensive light I really want to keep forever, but the battery won't last. if it could have 18650 batteries, I could keep it forever and just replace batteries.

I'm not a fan of the separate battery pack. Too much clutter. Why not just include the batteries in the light and make the light a bit larger? Or not make it larger and use 18650 batteries that I can switch out as I ride. not sure how long the battery would last (3 vs. 6 hours ), but on a long tour it sure is acceptable to stop after 3 hours to switch batteries.

I'm sure it provides good light, but still pricy. A light is an item that can get stolen, or fall down and break. With the fast development of LED there will be a much better light next year, and the year after. So the argument this is an investment and will be good for life is a bit weak in the electronic market in general. I work professionally with building interior and exterior lighting. some years ago LEd was odd and at 70 lm/W. now 120 lm/W is normal and many commercially available lights have over 140 lm/W. for every project I design I have to update data because the fixture line that was on the top 6 months ago now is superseded by a new line or a competing product. There is no "really expensive light you buy now that will be great for many years"

You can use an 2S2P case for 18650 cells:
Fenix BA4C Case found- Mtbr.com
Review: 4 (2S2P) and 6 cell (2S3P) hardshell waterproof bicycle battery packs from GB- Mtbr.com

Or go for an "Assembled in Germany" battery pack:
ENERpower Mitte Plus Battery 7.4V 10200mAh with Round Plug at ENERprof
Bike Light Batteries at ENERprof


It will get much more heavier, so mounting safety isn't that good anymore. Also many would complain about he size and weight...
You can get an Fenix BC30 if you like an bright light (but it has no cutoff-beam).
Specialized Flux Expert has an cutoff-beam, but battery is only replacable with tools.


Comparative Light like the Lupine SL A or B&M Ixon Space costs $200-350. So the price is okay.
If a light reaches 1.500lm, this is automotive level brightness. So finally bicycles are up to other vehicles, after more than 120years. So brighness would last some years.
With electronics and good CRI lamps can reach >120lm/W, but would be more expensive then. Reaching 100lm/W is already very good.
If you'd buy the Supernova M99 Pro back in 2015, it will be even compare with the best bicycle lights in 2020.
Same with LED retrofit bulbs from Philips, 60W/806lm did cost $60 back in 2012. Now they still work fine, only the current price for similar lamps would be just 1/6 of 2012.

According to the Kickstarter page the light comes with an optional separate battery pack using a DC5521 connector. So you can get just the light and add your own 18650 (or 26650) based lithium battery pack. Not quite as clean a package as lights that include the batteries, but I prefer it to designs with sealed cases where I can't replace the cells when they wear out.

If I buy a $175 light I expect to not have to McGyver a battery solution....

For $60 I got this 1000 lumen helmet light. works really great and is a good addition to any handlebar light since it shines where you look at. In addition I have a $30 flashlight (which is an expensive one compared to most) that has over 1,500 lumens and also an 18650 battery. Back when I fell for that specialized bike light idea I also bought a $60 600-lumen niterider light (not replaceable battery) and use that as second headlight. Once that Niterider battery dies, I replace it with a flashlight.
From a light distribution point that outbound light may be better, but price and battery situation greatly favor my "cheap" solution.

The $175 option comes with the battery pack and pouch that provides a 3 hour runtime on high. The light head is not large enough to house enough batteries to create a usable runtime without it becoming very large and very heavy as AngerDan said, that is why I went for the external route.

The light output is going to be one of those things that is hard to get people to understand until they actually experience it in person. It's such a wide even wall of light for the trail version, and such a well defined intense cutoff for the road version, that it won't compare at all to a cheap light that is using a bowl optic and large cheap LED chips. Even if you stack up 5 of them on a bar. :)

Will the technology get better? Yep, will it happen next year? Nope. Why? Because these chips are one of the newest ones. XML2 has been around for almost 8-10 years now and the only improvements is that manufactures have boosted the amperage in order to get another 100-200 lumens to upsell as the next model year. It takes 4 times the lumens for a light to feel twice as bright. Lumens per watt isn't the concern in optical illumination, it's the luminance, or how bright a chip is. These are emitting 1500 lumens from a combined square area of less than 3.5mm^2. For comparison an XML2 is about 16 mm^2. That insane intensity is why we are able to create a controllable beam pattern.

I will say, I know many will still think any bike light over $100 is nuts. And for that I don't have an answer, some people will always want the cheaper option. I truly believe a good quality light really opens up a new door for how you get to enjoy your bike. I've ridden on many many many cheap lights over the years benchmarking and trying things out. The expensive lights, like the Seca 2500, are expensive, but man do they make a night ride so much more enjoyable, to the point I almost prefer to ride at night now, even when the days are long. That's why I benchmarked that light and made sure mine could match it in beam width (actually exceed it) and peak intensity, then one upped it by having a longer battery life with a lower weight overall package.

Hope to see our light on your bike soon. :)

Oh, I would totally be OK to buy one single headlight at higher price instead of fiddling with multiple ones. and I don't doubt the light from your light will be great. not sure if $175 great, but sure better than my $30 solution :)

I perform lighting design and know the actual outcome (an average lux/fc, uniformity etc.) is more important than just a single lumen number. with my flashlight I get a lot (a lot!) of light in one spot and little light over a wider area. So i see the limitation of normal flashlights for biking.

Would it be possible to have just 1.5 hours runtime with the batteries integrated? The issue I see with the external battery is that first more clutter. Second, when you have multiple bikes you take the light from bike to bike. Or when we commute and take off the lights to take in. Seems unnecessary hassle to deal with two "boxes" and cable. I assume no one wants to leave the light on the bike when it is locked up somewhere.

I see the limitations of lm/W and Wh per battery you have to deal with. Standard li-io batteries probably are where they are now, and LED may add 10 lm/w per year. so if you have that much lumen output, you will need a physically large battery for a while.

May I ask what lm/w your LED have? I assume manufacturers bin their LED and the lower efficiencies (100-140 lm/W or even less) go to light fixtures, and the higher ones to battery device? I found this 2014 anouncement of Cree breaking the 300 lm/w barrier. but none of their fixtures goes anywhere near that efficiency. Actually Cree is trailing a bit behind Philips these days regarding efficiency.

We are running a 1x5 Lumiled Altilon. You can check out the datasheet here: (apparently still can't post URLs), but google "Lumiled Altilon" and it'll be one of the first results.

The older Altilon PnP has been out for a bit, but that was a full PCB assembly that was being pushed to try and drive lower cost alternatives. Most OEM's have opted for a custom PCB board since the overall actual cost doesn't really decrease once you start making hundreds of thousands of modules. The Altilon SMD's are very new. OEM's were given access to them in the last year or two, so you'll start seeing it pop up on automotive OEM headlights in about a year or two (typical design lifecycle for a new headlight is 2-3 years). We actually had to get approved by Lumileds to use the chip, and have to buy through approved US suppliers. It's a pain sometimes, but the chip performance is worth it.

The actual Lm/W is probably around 110-125 depending on what bin and a lot of other factors. The larger the chip the better Lm/W you'll get, but the optical performance will decrease quite a lot. CREE rates their chips at standard room temperature, aka the second the chip turns on. As I am sure you know most chips actually run at 85-90*C, so trying to rate a chip at 20*C I find is just stupid. OSRAM does this as well, very annoying. :lol: Lumileds thankfully rates their chips at actual operating temperatures, so their published numbers *seem* lower, but they are actually more in line with real world applications.

As for the internal battery, it's next on the list to design. I've got plenty of ideas for a bar or helmet mount specific internal battery lamp. Also in the future I do want to do a whole low/high beam lamp that's a little bigger than the current one, but that'll also be fairly pricey just because now have to double up on the chips and tooling sizes. The chips are one of the biggest cost driving factors (along with the battery). But if the kickstarter goes well, and specific optic type lamps like the Focal series can help us bring in revenue, can buy chips in larger quantities to help bring price down.

Link's here:
1x 5 LUXEON Altilon SMD
A1SB-58505DH0xxxx0
www.lumileds.com/uploads/657/DS175-pdf

But with 1,500lm at 16.9W, wouldn't it be 89lm/W ?

If you construct the battery as case for replacable 18650-cells, costs would be fair. Especially if you think about he amaount of YinDing/Magigshine users who will be interested because of the compatible DC5521 plug.

16.9V is the maximum voltage, typical rating would be 15.2W according to the datasheet at 85*C. If you are rating like CREE, you assume maximum binning (1600Lm @ 1A, 15.2V) and 20*C temperature which boosts the lumen rating by 7%, so now at 1712lm @ 15.2W, so roughly 112lm/W when comparing to a CREE. But like I had mentioned, its a lower lm/W rating due to the sheer minuscule size of the thing. It's hard to get an appreciation of how tiny the emitters are until you have it next to something like the XML2. Which is fantastic for beam pattern control. That's why chip selection for automotive lighting engineers (myself) I go based on chip emitter size, color control (how well will it maintain it's color temperature throughout different thermal profiles, OSRAM black flat not very good at this), and then the lumen amount. At these lighting conferences all the big name chip companies like Lumileds, Nichia, Osram, dong feng and more were going on about their research into reducing the emitter size even more, while maintaining the same lumen amounts.

Other industries focus on other things, like architectural and residential lighting focuses on CRI and Lm/W since it's a marketing point.

Should check out the new Jaguar F-type headlights, and Range Rover Velar to see just how tiny the actual optics of automotive headlights can become thanks to these new high luminance chips. The actual headlight housings themselves are big, but the actual optic? No more than an inch tall, and maybe 4" wide. So can imagine that if it's acceptable to have two optics that big on a $100k car that can do god-knows-how-fast, then a similar optic and chip will be pretty awesome for a bike. :thumb:

Hey guys! Just an update. We are entering the final days of our campgain, have been 100% funded (right now at 175% funded actually!) so this means we'll be recieving the funds and be able to start production very soon. Last chance to get these at almost 30% off.

We are going to do a livestream tomorrow night to answer any questions you guys have, as well as show off what we are doing, the prototypes, and more!

https://live.kickstarter.com/broadcast/22209/overview

Very easy to submit some questions.

In the meantime, be sure to check out the updated campaign page! Things have changed since 3 weeks ago. :)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ting-bike-lig/

Another update time! We closed with nearly 200% funding, got the money transferred to us early this week, and suppliers have been paid. Now we play the waiting game for all the parts to arrive before we start assembly.

In the meantime we've opened up the website for pre-orders still, allowing you to still get a discounted price until we start shipping in March.

https://www.outboundlighting.com/store/


We have gotten an updated trail reflector after I wasn't thrilled with the first two revisions. Now have the light carpet in full effect. Notice the even illumnination from the front all the way up to where your eyes are. The beam width is the same width as your binocular vision, which means you'll take full advantage of your natural depth perception. This photo came straight off my phone. Will get some better ones once our production lens shows up in a few weeks.

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/l...sion-ol002.jpg