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Outside Magazine article on DC Rainmaker

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Outside Magazine article on DC Rainmaker

Old 03-18-18, 07:13 PM
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Shimagnolo
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Outside Magazine article on DC Rainmaker

https://www.outsideonline.com/2288226/conjure-storm
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Old 03-18-18, 07:31 PM
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It is a bit much to claim that he has singular power to "make or break a product launch."

He has told some fibs himself from time to time too.


-Tim-
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Old 03-20-18, 02:57 AM
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Thanks for sharing. An interesting read.
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Old 03-20-18, 11:27 AM
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Indeed..Very good article. Nice to know the background of the guy doing all those reviews. Incredible resume! I had no idea the guy now lives in Paris. That explains all the reviews I read where he was riding through areas of France. I just thought the guy traveled a lot. Very admirable that the guy returns all the stuff that he reviews and that he accepts no advertising from the companies who's products he reviews. I guess that makes him the "Go To" source if you need a good product review.
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Old 03-20-18, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
It is a bit much to claim that he has singular power to "make or break a product launch."

He has told some fibs himself from time to time too.


-Tim-
Examples?
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Old 03-20-18, 03:02 PM
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Oh wow. The author of the article was killed while on a bike ride just a couple weeks ago. https://www.outsideonline.com/228255...s-in-collision
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Old 03-20-18, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
Oh wow. The author of the article was killed while on a bike ride just a couple weeks ago. https://www.outsideonline.com/228255...s-in-collision
Weird;
The article was published a month after his death.
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Old 03-20-18, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
Examples?
Garmin 820's with the first few firmware versions required that the screen be shut off or the battery would last no more than 4 hr 20 min. One was required to configure the screen to auto-off after 30 seconds, 1 minute and so forth or if one wanted the screen on all the time they had to live with poor battery life. This ability to auto-off the screen was called a "Nifty battery save feature" instead of what it really was, a workaround for horrible battery life. Later firmware versions have at least doubled battery life and no longer require use of the nifty batter save feature.


-Tim-
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Old 03-20-18, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Garmin 820's with the first few firmware versions required that the screen be shut off or the battery would last no more than 4 hr 20 min. One was required to configure the screen to auto-off after 30 seconds, 1 minute and so forth or if one wanted the screen on all the time they had to live with poor battery life. This ability to auto-off the screen was called a "Nifty battery save feature" instead of what it really was, a workaround for horrible battery life. Later firmware versions have at least doubled battery life and no longer require use of the nifty batter save feature.
1- That's not a lie.
2- It seems it's the only example you have.
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Old 03-20-18, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
1- That's not a lie.
2- It seems it's the only example you have.
So we maybe call it misleading information ?. Instead of stating the unit has terrible battery life, he espouses the battery saving feature. Misleading.

As well, one odd comment he made (a basic inaccuracy) was from his Karoo review where he stated " Now, Wahoo actually doesnít have legit on-device turn by turn navigation like Garmin or Hammerhead does". Well yes they do. Here's a picture off a Bolt, so not sure what he's referring to.

Essentially he tends to gloss over what can be glaring issues with a device, though sometimes that's because he tends to get beta versions. As well his testing is very centered around the particular activities he enjoys. I've yet to read a review of a GPS being used off-road or mt. biking as example, so he's likely no clue that a Wahoo can't display a Topo map, where as you can do that with a Garmin. He just reviews a LOT of gear in his limited experiences.

Still I find the site useful and do check on occasion.
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Old 03-20-18, 09:29 PM
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I think some people think it's important that the Wahoo is just getting its info about turn by turn from ride with gps. Seems to me that garmin's turn by turn doesn't work any better than RWGPS either, so I'm not sure that's a downside.
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Old 03-21-18, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
So we maybe call it misleading information ?
DCR was accused of "lies".

Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Instead of stating the unit has terrible battery life, he espouses the battery saving feature. Misleading.
No, not misleading.

Anybody with any sense looking for information about battery life would look at actual battery life information.

I believe it was in a preliminary review, for which getting actual battery life information would not have been feasible.

Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
As well, one odd comment he made (a basic inaccuracy) was from his Karoo review where he stated " Now, Wahoo actually doesnít have legit on-device turn by turn navigation like Garmin or Hammerhead does". Well yes they do. Here's a picture off a Bolt, so not sure what he's referring to.
The Wahoo doesn't have "legit on-device turn by turn navigation". The problem is that people don't understand what he's saying (what he's saying might not be clear to everybody).

The turn-by-turn information the Wahoo displays is embedded in the file downloaded to the unit.

The Garmin 500/510/520 Edges do the same thing with the "course points" embedded in the TCX files downloaded to them. This is an ancient feature (though, the Wahoo might do it better).

The Garmin 800/810/1000/1030 generate the turn-instructions on the device. You don't need to use some other computer (like a smartphone) like the Wahoo requires.

Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Essentially he tends to gloss over what can be glaring issues with a device, though sometimes that's because he tends to get beta versions. As well his testing is very centered around the particular activities he enjoys. I've yet to read a review of a GPS being used off-road or mt. biking as example, so he's likely no clue that a Wahoo can't display a Topo map, where as you can do that with a Garmin. He just reviews a LOT of gear in his limited experiences.
This is (arguably) a reasonable criticism. These issues are not that hard to see (by a reasonably careful reader). But it's not "lies".

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Old 03-21-18, 08:37 AM
  #13  
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So after having written 8+ billion words of detailed reviews of thousands of products we've uncovered one weak-assed example of a missing test on a Beta unit.

Shocking!
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Old 03-21-18, 08:57 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
So after having written 8+ billion words of detailed reviews of thousands of products we've uncovered one weak-assed example of a missing test on a Beta unit.

Shocking!

No one said he didn't provide a valuable service to the community or that his work was completely without merit.

We are just pointing out the absurdity of the magazine's claim that he possesses singular power to "make or break" the success of any given electronic device and that he is not immune to sugar coating obvious flaws in equipment. That's all.


-Tim-

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Old 03-21-18, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
Weird;
The article was published a month after his death.
That part's normal, magazine articles are typically completed months in advance of publication.

I read a couple tributes to the author that were very moving. As with all such incidents it was tragic and it sounds like he really touched the lives of those around him.
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Old 03-21-18, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
We are just pointing out the absurdity of the magazine's claim that he possesses singular power to "make or break" the success of any given electronic device and that he is not immune to sugar coating obvious flaws in equipment.
I didn't find the article absurd at all. They mentioned Apple wouldn't worry too much about a review but for many other smaller companies his reviews could have considerable impact one way or the other.

You mentioned he fibbed but provided no evidence. If you're going to challenge someone's integrity you should be prepared to back it up with some facts.
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Old 03-21-18, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
DCR was accused of "lies".



No, not misleading.

Anybody with any sense looking for information about battery life would look at actual battery life information.

I believe it was in a preliminary review, for which getting actual battery life information would not have been feasible.


".
Good points NJ.

Essentially the method of providing turn-by-turn isn’t really important to the average user and I was suprised by the comment, especially as it seems to state the Wahoos don't do TBT or don’t do it well. when in fact they do, just differently then a Garmin.

I think what I am trying to say is the DC’s reviews tend to not dwell much on any negatives (unless it’s a glaring issue) and as such, leaving out some information seems misleading to me. General issues with the Edge 810 is a case in point where I did extensive searching on the 810, didn’t see too many negatives from DC, saw it in other places and failed to follow the posts on the device in DC’s site. My bad.

And where would you see an actual laboratory type test of each devices battery life ?, you can’t, it’s generally threads on here and other forums, or the occasional online magazine review, and DC Rainmaker. He’s certainly about the most proliferate, but as stated, tends to gloss over some issues and really never gets back to a long term usage review, which might be useful. The Garmin 520 is about the only real device I’ve seen him return too. Part of this is he’s an athlete that has a review on the side, so possibly he just doesn’t have the time or inclination to get back to a Garmin 820 or 1030 for long term.

The fact that he does hundreds of reviews of a lot of different devices I’m certain makes his reviews lack long term depth, but are still useful to somebody wanting information. I found the Garmin Swim Watch thru his site. Love it.

Last edited by Steve B.; 03-21-18 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 03-21-18, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Essentially the method of providing turn-by-turn isnít really important to the average user and I was suprised by the comment, especially as it seems to state the Wahoos don't do TBT or donít do it well. when in fact they do, just differently then a Garmin.
I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered reading that when the ELEMNT or the BOLT first came out it didn't do turn-by-turn -- that functionality was part of a later firmware upgrade?

I have no idea the timeline of all this vs. when the review was posted. But that might be an explanation.

For the record I am quite happy with my BOLT turn-by-turn. I rarely need it but it's nice to have when I do.
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Old 03-21-18, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Essentially the method of providing turn-by-turn isn’t really important to the average user and I was suprised by the comment, especially as it seems to state the Wahoos don't do TBT or don’t do it well. when in fact they do, just differently then a Garmin.
If the TBT is computed by the device, then the device can handle rerouting when you go off course. The Garmins can also compute routes without needing a cell-network. That's a useful option (for example, if you are in a foreign country).

There's a functional difference. People should understand the difference and then decide whether it's important to them.

Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
I think what I am trying to say is the DC’s reviews tend to not dwell much on any negatives (unless it’s a glaring issue) and as such, leaving out some information seems misleading to me. General issues with the Edge 810 is a case in point where I did extensive searching on the 810, didn’t see too many negatives from DC, saw it in other places and failed to follow the posts on the device in DC’s site. My bad.
He does extensive feature reviews when devices are released (or before they are released). He doesn't always review the devices after "living with it" for awhile.

Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
And where would you see an actual laboratory type test of each devices battery life ?, you can’t, it’s generally threads on here and other forums, or the occasional online magazine review, and DC Rainmaker.
The problem is treating description of a feature that is irrelevant to battery life as being about battery life.

Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
He’s certainly about the most proliferate, but as stated, tends to gloss over some issues and really never gets back to a long term usage review, which might be useful.
Sure that would be useful. It's not misleading (or lying) not to provide it.

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Old 03-21-18, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered reading that when the ELEMNT or the BOLT first came out it didn't do turn-by-turn -- that functionality was part of a later firmware upgrade?
Yes, apparently.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/03/...th-review.html

TBT released 11/2016.

https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/...ftware-Updates
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Old 03-21-18, 05:33 PM
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The DC comment about Wahoo “Now, Wahoo actually doesn’t have legit on-device turn by turn navigation like Garmin or Hammerhead does “ is from his 2/2018 review on the Hammerhead. So apparantly he hasn’t used a Wahoo recently.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/02/...th-review.html

And you can call it what you want, but it seems DC skips mentioning some things, like no BT on the Karoo. To me, and dependent on motive, it comes off as misleading. Note that he’s pretty straightforward that the Karoo does not connect to a smartphone, just doesn’t really mention the lack of BT, so it just seems odd and well, misleading. Thus I’ve read of folks that were surprised to find that Karoo decided to go the WiFi only route, with no BT connection to an app. Maybe they didn’t see DC’s comments or didn't understand the implications.

Last edited by Steve B.; 03-21-18 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 03-21-18, 05:59 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
The DC comment about Wahoo “Now, Wahoo actually doesn’t have legit on-device turn by turn navigation like Garmin or Hammerhead does “ is from his 2/2018 review on the Hammerhead. So apparantly he hasn’t used a Wahoo recently.
No, he mentions the Wahoo TBT in his review of the Bolt from about a year ago.

He mentioned that it was a feature added after the Elmnt was released.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/03/...th-review.html

Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
And you can call it what you want, but it seems DC skips mentioning some things, like no BT on the Karoo. To me, and dependent on motive, it comes off a misleading, but I’ll agree to disagree.
He says the Karoo ANT+ and BT LE sensors.

What BT support are you talking about?

I don't think you read the review very carefully.

Originally Posted by dcrainmaker
Speaking of mobile apps, there is no mobile app for the Karoo (nor any plans to at this point). Similarly, at present, there’s no smartphone notifications (e.g. missed calls or texts or what-not). Hammerhead doesn’t really have any timelines for those either.
Originally Posted by dcrainmaker
There are no audio alerts built into the device: Thus, you have to watch your screen for upcoming alerts. The hardware simply doesn’t exist in Karoo to make a beep. The company says they’re looking to add Bluetooth headphone support (which would also work with helmets like the COROS Linx I use). But they don’t have a timeline for that.
Originally Posted by dcrainmaker
In most of my devce reviews I include a section about the smartphone app and online site experience. But in this case, that’s kinda hard to do.

Starting with the smartphone app: There is no app.

There’s at present no method to connect to the Karoo from your smartphone, save creating a WiFi hotspot. But even then, that’s not an app – that’s just allowing the Karoo to access the interwebs to upload/download things. In talking with the company, they say that they really wanted Karoo to stand alone on its own as a device, and not need a smartphone app.

Last edited by njkayaker; 03-21-18 at 06:23 PM.
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