The next level

Hello,
I am looking into a garmin for alot of uses. For training and tracking but I need help understanding which units will let you load a route for navigation. This has been recommended to me for an upcoming race through the forest for navigation vs using a cue sheet. Would that be the 820 then? I believe that is how I read the spec's?
Thanks Troy

TrojanHorse

Garmin just announced the 520+ which should do what you want without the crappy touch screen of the 820 (or the price)

You do have to build the course on ridewithgps or the like, so I'm not sure if that's possible with your forest race. Give it a shot on ridewithGPS before committing to a GPS

The next level

I forgot to mention they do release gps files for the race. I would believe it would be just a matter of downloading??

njkayaker

Yes.

Generally.

There's some chance the file won't work (https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/gpsbabel/ might fix that -> convert the file from GPX track to GPX track).

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The Garmins provide two types of route/course following.

1- A basic follow a line ("breadcrumb" trail that can have simple turn instructions called "course points" (via TCX files).
2- A more sophisticated type (called "turn guidance") that looks more like what you see on a car navigation unit.

The second type requires maps and the track/route/course has follow roads/paths that are on the map. Sometimes, the second type doesn't always work. The second type works by having the unit calculate a second route to follow (this can take some time). The units that can use the second type can also calculate a route to a location (like a car navigation unit).

The first type is simple enough that it can't really fail but the turn instructions ("course points") are very sensitive to location (which means they won't always "pop-up" on the screen because you don't get close enough to their location.

The paths used in a "race in the forest" might not be included on the map.

Units up to the 520 provide just the first type. Units from the 520+ provide both types. The 820 (and, likely, the 520+) are might be a bit too slow for the route calculation and the screens are a bit too small for looking at maps. The larger 1000/1030 are faster and the screens are much better for viewing the maps.

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Using the devices for navigation requires a bit of practice. I typically keep an eye on the map. That gives me an idea of what is upcoming and lets me notice any turns I might have missed.

Steve B.

Iride01 

I didn't look to see if you specified what race. But be aware that some race organizers are pretty archaic on the course/route files they publish. Just because it has a .tcx or .gpx type on it's file name doesn't mean it's going to import into the device you get correctly if at all.

I'm sure more race organizations are more aware, but when I got my edge 500 back in the ancient days of 2010, ride and race routes were problematic. Many of the rides I've done lately are published on RWGPS or Strava so the results are much better.

When you consider what device to get, consider exactly what features are really important to you. Power? Cadence? Wheel speed/distance? HR? Route Navigation? Route Planning? Reverse course to return? Suggest routes? Do any of the Garmin IQ apps appeal to you? Some Garmin Edges don't handle certain features and a few do navigation stuff slightly different.

Much seems or at the time I was keeping a close eye on them seemed to revolve around whether you were more interested in your metrics and other ride data with maps and navigation of lesser importance. Or were more interested in Maps and Navigation with less emphasis on metrics and data.

If you stray outside the Edge device line, then be certain the device will handle all the sensors you might want to add.

If you aren't familiar with any GPS stuff, you might just try using your smartphone with an app, if for nothing else than it's cheap and you'll get some more experience that may help you as you dive in.

The next level

I'm sorry, I will try to be more clear. I am interested in my performance data first and foremost but would like the navigation to aid me. The ride is called the hungry bear 100 in Cable,WI. Mostly gravel roads from the description but I do believe not all roads are labeled.

njkayaker

if the route file doesn't work, the following site might fix it.

https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/gpsbabel/

TCX is a Garmin format. So, it would be odd if whatever was producing it produced a file that didn't work. It's possible that course points aren't included.

GPX is a more general format and some GPX files aren't formatted in a way that works on the Garmins.
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In either case, since most people would be using the file on a Garmin, it would be kind of odd that the file wouldn't work.
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njkayaker

It's very likely the file they are providing will work on any Garmin you choose.
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All of the Garmins will provide performance data and basic navigation.

​If you are interested in FTP and power, you might need a 520 or "better" unit.

(The Touring/Explorer models don't provide much performance data.)

If you want to use the fancy navigation (in addition to the basic navigation), you need a unit that supports maps (520+ or "better").

There's a good chance this event can't use the fancy navigation.

It seems likely you want a unit for more than this one event.

​​​​​​A unit like the 520+ or "better" gives you all of the options.

A unit like the 520 or "less" doesn't support maps and doesn't provide the fancy navigation.

A unit like the 1000/1030 will be better for navigation that uses maps.
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Iride01 

Just because it's a .tcx file or .gpx file does not mean it is a valid course file that will import into your Garmin device. Maybe you have not been around long enough to experience what I have, or maybe I've been around too long and not realized that everyone has cleaned up their act and gotten their crap together when posting ride routes.

But those files can also contain activity logs and other type ride data. Not every edge imports a .gpx. My edge 500 only imports .tcx, .fit and .crs files. Though perhaps all the new Garmin's will handle a .gpx now. I've also used online tools that didn't correctly form the header information in the file and a few manual edits of the file fixed the issue.

I just think anyone basing their desire for purchasing a dedicated gps for cycling on navigation of routes created by others should be aware. In my experience and opinion it's a crapshoot as to whether it is easy-peasy. But certainly if you want to use their info, you can build your own course on RWGPS, Strava, bikeroutetoaster (does that still exist), or a plethora of other sites and downloadable software or apps.

njkayaker

I never said either would always work.

I don't think this is that much of a concern now (it might have been years ago). It seems unlikely that a TCX file wouldn't have worked. I have seen even recent sources of GPX files that don't work.

It would be a bit weird if the organizers sent out files that don't work on Garmins.

As long as the file contains track data, the other stuff shouldn't matter.

The 705/605 couldn't use TCX files (I believe). If you get a GPX file, you can convert it to a TCX file (or a fit file).

https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/gpsbabel/

Yes, starting with the now-ancient 800.

I've seen issues not only with header information but the order of track point attributes. But it's unusual.

They should be aware of it but it's likely that it won't be a problem.

It existed a few months ago. It appears to have gone missing.

The next level

Thanks everyone! I am digesting this info. So there is a difference between 520 and 520+. I will see if I can locate the + and read up.

njkayaker

Yes, there's a big difference.

The 520+ has the same routing/navigation features that the 820 has.

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The organizers provide a GPX file.

That means you won't get "course points" (the basic turn instructions that all/most of the Garmins support) since "course points" only can come from TCX files. (And it's likely you won't get "turn guidance").

Basically, you'll see a line tracing the path/course and you'll see your location. When you get too far from the track, the unit will say "off course" and chirp at you.

When the organizers release the GPX files, I'll try it (on my 800).

TimothyH

There are other brands besides Garmin.

Polar, Wahoo, Bryton, etc.

Some of these are a great value.

The next level

I googled the plus, not available yet. 5-8 wks.

njkayaker

The Garmins let you use custom maps. I don't think the others do (Wahoo doesn't).

The Wahoo seems to be well-liked (even if it has limitations).

A refurbished 800 is an equal or better value.

njkayaker

The 820 would be the unit that most closely matches the 520+.

TimothyH

I mean this with all due respect and speak from experience - GPS, cue sheet or otherwise, if it is an unfamiliar area then the best thing you can do at this point is get out and ride it, or portions of it, or at least pre-drive it in an automobile.

If you do get a GPS then you had better not over analyze it. Decide quickly and learn how to use the basic navigation features. 12 days isn't very much time at all.


-Tim-

The next level

I appreciate your thoughts. I won't be in that area until the night before the ride. At this point it feels like I should just roll with the cue sheet and not put any pressure on myself. Being my first event I should be able to just use it as a learning experience. From the little I have read and what I have learned from this site it sounds like trying to use a GPS could complicate the situation with learning curve associated with it.

njkayaker

The general case is that doing a pre-ride is unrealistic.

It takes some experience to use a GPS well. It's something else that takes your attention.

It's generally best practice to add one new thing to an activity at a time.

If you get a device, you can plot a short route in your neighborhood to get some of that experience. You might even be able to have a friend who uses one to help you.

The other issue is that (presumably) you aren't picking a device for just this one event.

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bogydave

TimothyH

I have some of the same thoughts.

It is not impossible to learn the GPS and it certainly isn't rocket science. Once you have it set up properly then you just look at it and follow the dot on the map. That's all.

On the other hand, if you don't get it soon then messing with it during the ride could take away some of the enjoyment or at least complicate matters, and if something were to go wrong you would need a backup.

I would probably buy a GPS and dive headlong. That's just me. I hope it all works out for you. The ride seems like a challenge and I hope you do well. Stay safe.


-Tim-

josephjhaney

I have the 810, if you can find one, they are the best blend of the full featured 800, without the shirnky dink size of the 820, and it connects to the app on my phone via bluetooth for live tracking, which is awesome. Again, they are hard to find, but I love mine.

Joe

sierrabob

If you really want the Hungry Bear ride on your choice of bike computer, you'll find TCX/GPX versions from previous years on Ridewithgps.com. But the ride host wants you to use their own cue sheet after you sign in. If they made public a TCX file with turn alerts, street names (if there are any), and cue sheets for TbT navigation, people would just "bandit" the ride and do it without paying.