Notices
Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets HRM, GPS, MP3, HID. Whether it's got an acronym or not, here's where you'll find discussions on all sorts of tools, toys and gadgets.

Fast REchargeable battery pack

Old 08-11-19, 12:40 AM
  #1  
gauvins
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: QC Canada
Posts: 1,178

Bikes: Custom built LHT & Troll

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Fast REchargeable battery pack

My battery bank (16Ah) takes several hours to recharge.

Something can be done? (Would probably require a smart regulator)

[edit]

The critical factor is how many Wh/h a bank can absorb. It looks like Qualcomm Quick Charge provides the best options. Anker sells a Power Core that can recharge at 27W, almost three times as fast as a typical bank.

Unfortunately it is huge (26Ah), possibly in order to spread the load across several batteries.

But it's a step in a promising direction.

Last edited by gauvins; 08-14-19 at 06:28 AM.
gauvins is offline  
Old 08-11-19, 04:06 PM
  #2  
Litespeedlouie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 293

Bikes: Litespeed, O'Brien, Specialized, Fuji

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
What model battery pack is this, and how do you charge it now?

Very generally speaking, faster charging decreases the life of rechargeable cells, and can make detection of a full charge more difficult. This can be an increased fire hazard.
Litespeedlouie is offline  
Old 08-11-19, 05:52 PM
  #3  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 7,119

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3876 Post(s)
Liked 368 Times in 238 Posts
I doubt the cells could handle a charge rate higher than 4 or 5 amps, meaning as the best case it's going to take 3.5 to 4 hours to charge that battery from dead to full. And as mentioned, charging at high rates decreases cell life. Unless they are egregiously expensive, I would look into having two packs and just cycling them.

Now if you have a charger that's only putting out like 1 or 2 amps, yeah, you can absolutely charge it faster. The chemistry of the battery is going to determine what charger you need. Most of the DC-powered R/C chargers can handle all cell types, and several sub-$100 chargers will go up to 10A charge rates.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 06:02 AM
  #4  
gauvins
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: QC Canada
Posts: 1,178

Bikes: Custom built LHT & Troll

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
My current bank is a 16A (62Wh) RavPower. Rated 5V/2A input (as is usual).

Is it possible to accelerate the process? How?
gauvins is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 06:44 AM
  #5  
Trevtassie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,163

Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 338 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
My current bank is a 16A (62Wh) RavPower. Rated 5V/2A input (as is usual).

Is it possible to accelerate the process? How?
Not much I suspect. You may be able to get a 2.4A Micro USB cable and a decent power adapter than can put out 3A, generally they'll have a red USB outlet like this one https://www.gearbest.com/chargers-ca...p_1662472.html . That at least minimises any losses up to the inlet plug. But ultimately the charge rate is controlled by the circuitry inside the pack.
Next step is to get a power bank with a USB C input, especially ones with "Power Delivery" and use a minimum 18W USB C power pack. That will halve the charge time roughly.
Trevtassie is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 07:02 AM
  #6  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,918

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
If it is 62 watt hours, that is a pretty big power bank. I can't imagine you would be able to push a lot of current through the electronics in that one unit for charging regardless of how big your USB supply is.

If you had two power banks, you probably could cut your charging time in half by having separate chargers for each.

If I recall correctly, you used to use a Forumslager (spell?) for bike touring. My big power bank that I bought for bike touring is 44 watt hours. During a bike tour I assume that on average my Sinewave Revolution puts out 2 watts, thus from empty to full would take 22 hours of rolling time. I learned to be patient.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 07:08 AM
  #7  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 7,119

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3876 Post(s)
Liked 368 Times in 238 Posts
My mistake, I thought this was about batteries, not a USB battery pack. A USB pack is going to charge at 1.5 to 2.0 amps, limited (as mentioned above) by the internal circuitry. There is no way to speed it up, nor should you try.

What you should do is get a USB ammeter to find out what rate the pack is actually charging at, so you can try different chargers and cables to get as close to 2A as possible.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 08:14 AM
  #8  
gauvins
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: QC Canada
Posts: 1,178

Bikes: Custom built LHT & Troll

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Well... Look at this bank. Looks like it could take 4A (see 4th picture).

Hmmm... the forumslader. I've removed it. Issue with the steerer cap cables. Haven't long toured since and no out-of-the-way plans. So it lays somewhere in a drawer.

I will try to use a smartwatch and see how it goes. Looks like it does its thing on 100mAh per day. At least one order of magnitude better than phones or computer heads. Game changer wrt power management.

Still months away. Several options to consider
gauvins is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 09:22 AM
  #9  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,918

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
...
What you should do is get a USB ammeter to find out what rate the pack is actually charging at, so you can try different chargers and cables to get as close to 2A as possible.
Very good point. Fully agree.

My last bike tour, I planned to be fully self sufficient on electrics from my dynohub and Sinewave Revolution USB charger that was powered by the dynohub. Before the trip I had estimated all my power needs. And I had checked all my cables to make sure that I did not have any high resistance cables.

After about two and a half weeks of touring, my powerbank was nearly empty, some of my camera batteries were nearly depleted and my phone was low. So much for the self sufficiency plan.

While sitting in a laundry room at a campground I started to plug stuff in to an outlet to get charged up. And I had brought an ammeter with me. And I discovered that I had a high resistance cable along that I did not discover before the trip, that cable was limiting how much power was going into my power bank. Changed to a different cable that I had brought as a spare, that solved all my problems. I did not need to plug into an outlet for the next two weeks and finished my trip with a power bank nearly full, camera batteries charged up, taillight spare batteries charged up, GPS charged, and phone charged up.

Shows how one bad cable can really mess up your plans.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 09:28 AM
  #10  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Posts: 37,474

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1973 Raleigh Twenty, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 435 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5626 Post(s)
Liked 214 Times in 154 Posts
Yes, and cables go bad, so bring spares.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 09:30 AM
  #11  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,918

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
Well... Look at this bank. Looks like it could take 4A (see 4th picture).
...
I do not have anything that uses USB C yet, so I am intentionally remaining ignorant.

But if you get it, you will have two power banks so your worst case scenario would be that you could charge up both of them at the same time with two chargers, doubling how fast you can obtain power. And if the new one charges faster, that is even better.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 09:35 AM
  #12  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,918

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Yes, and cables go bad, so bring spares.
My rainy month touring in Iceland, several cables died from corrosion at the plugs, as did one of my two taillights. So, yes, on a bike tour I bring spare cables. And I always bring two taillights.

Photo below is from my Canadian Maritimes trip two months ago, lots of damp days.

Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 12:17 PM
  #13  
mibike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
You can go with a power bank that uses a Quick Charge, USB-C or some other input that needs a special charger to charge fast. The only option I know of that uses a standard USB charger and is faster is https://www.anker.com/products/varia...26800/A1277011 it can use 2 chargers at the same time so charge in 1/2 the time.Or use 2 smaller power banks.

Last edited by mibike; 08-12-19 at 12:18 PM. Reason: spilling
mibike is offline  
Likes For mibike:
Old 08-12-19, 12:59 PM
  #14  
01 CAt Man Do
Senior Member
 
01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Columbia, Maryland
Posts: 1,115

Bikes: Mountain bike & Hybrid tour bike

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Okay, here you go....This battery bank looks like the fastest "input" recharge I've ever seen. Input current is listed as 5.6A!
30 minutes to full recharge! The downside is looks like it cost twice as much as a normal USB battery bank and output is limited 2A. If you scroll down the page on the link there are other "fast input battery banks" and some that have higher output current listings. Shop and pick what you think would work best for you.

( Note: I'm sure to get that speed you have to use the special included plug-in charger )

Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 08-12-19 at 01:03 PM.
01 CAt Man Do is offline  
Likes For 01 CAt Man Do:
Old 08-13-19, 04:42 AM
  #15  
gauvins
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: QC Canada
Posts: 1,178

Bikes: Custom built LHT & Troll

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
Okay, here you go....This battery bank looks like the fastest "input" recharge I've ever seen. [snip...]
Interesting, but awful reviews....

[edit]

After (too) much searching, I tentatively came to the conclusion that a charger equipped with a USB output is the way to go. Such as this. 4x18650 Lithium batteries would make it a 40Wh bank. It charges at 4A, twice the speed of typical banks, and in a pinch you can drop disposable batteries in the charger and use them as a poor-man's bank. (If I am not mistaken, it'll charge close to 15Wh in an hour. Allowing for inefficiencies, let's assume 10Wh. Not bad)

I've looked into super capacitors, but makes no practical sense.

Last edited by gauvins; 08-13-19 at 11:22 AM.
gauvins is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 01:09 PM
  #16  
01 CAt Man Do
Senior Member
 
01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Columbia, Maryland
Posts: 1,115

Bikes: Mountain bike & Hybrid tour bike

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
Interesting, but awful reviews....

[edit]

After (too) much searching, I tentatively came to the conclusion that a charger equipped with a USB output is the way to go. Such as this. 4x18650 Lithium batteries would make it a 40Wh bank. It charges at 4A, twice the speed of typical banks, and in a pinch you can drop disposable batteries in the charger and use them as a poor-man's bank. (If I am not mistaken, it'll charge close to 15Wh in an hour. Allowing for inefficiencies, let's assume 10Wh. Not bad)

I've looked into super capacitors, but makes no practical sense.
About the edited part of your comment; Yes, you can buy a cell holder and use something like what you linked to to recharge the cells at a faster rate. However I would not buy the 4-bay charger you linked to. First, if you are looking to use a 4 x 18650 cell holder as a power bank I doubt you would want to use 18650 cells with just 2500mAh of capacity when there are so much better batteries. Secondly if you scroll down the page of the Amazon link that you linked to, you can read the product specifications which are not so impressive. Yes, if you only charge two cells you might get them to charge in a little over two hours assuming you use cells that are more near 3000mAh capacity. But...if you charge all four cells at the same time than the current is split between all four ( 1 amp for each bay ). The real deal killer is the USB output port which only supplies 1A of current. Charge anything with that and it will take twice as long as a standard USB wall charger ( 2A ). Not to mention that the USB output port on your typical Trustfire 4 cell holder is likely something like 1.5A ( my best guess ). Making it worse the 4 cell holders have a terrible rate of self discharge. I take the top off of mine when not in use.

Now about the reviews on the battery bank I previously linked to. If you are referring to the bad Amazon reviews, sometimes you have have to read what the people are actually complaining about in order to see if they are making a fair assessment of the product. Seems the nonexistent customer service was the biggest complaint ( which is probably actually true ). However there are only 40 - some reviews to judge from ( a rather small consumer base ) but from what was said the product did actually charge in 30 minutes. Some of the complaints I felt were nit-picky but if you are using Amazon Prime you should have no problem returning an item or arranging for an exchange if something goes bad on the product.. If I had one of those and if the button came loose or the USB output port came loose I would just return it to Amazon ( if still under the warranty guidelines ). Then again I'm not into fast recharge of a battery bank so if I bought a battery bank I'd likely buy one of the Anker products. That said if I was into bike touring and needed to charge my battery bank fast while at a pit stop I'd likely roll the dice on one of these 30 minute recharge battery bank...AND...while I'm at it plug in my Samsung S9 wall charger which charges my phone pretty fast all on it's own.
01 CAt Man Do is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 02:02 PM
  #17  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,918

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
... . 4x18650 Lithium batteries ....
If you buy some Li Ion batteries, there are a lot of counterfeit ones out there and there are lots of ones that claim great power which they do not have. I have bought several that were worthless.

I got lucky and got some from a seller on Amazon that appeared to have their rated capacity but I just checked and that seller no longer sells Li Ion batteries, so I have no suggestions on where to buy.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 02:34 AM
  #18  
01 CAt Man Do
Senior Member
 
01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Columbia, Maryland
Posts: 1,115

Bikes: Mountain bike & Hybrid tour bike

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Best place ( IMO ) to buy loose 18650 cells is from the Orbtronic website. They have the best brands and are a USA based seller. They sell Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, LG....all the best brands, both protected and unprotected. I've bought both LG and Sony 18650's and also some 26650's. All rated ( and tested by myself as well ) at the highest capacity. They even sell the newer 21 and 20700 type cells. All products shipped from Fla. Fast shipping too. Every order I placed arrived within 4 days ( east coast ). The protected cells they sell use their own protection circuit which then get the "Orbtronic label" regardless of the actual battery manufacturer. Otherwise you get the basic manufacturer's label if buying unprotected cells. Personally, I won't buy li-ion batteries from any other place.
01 CAt Man Do is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 05:12 AM
  #19  
gauvins
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: QC Canada
Posts: 1,178

Bikes: Custom built LHT & Troll

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
Best place ( IMO ) to buy loose 18650 cells is from the Orbtronic website. They have the best brands and are a USA based seller. They sell Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, LG....all the best brands, both protected and unprotected. I've bought both LG and Sony 18650's and also some 26650's. All rated ( and tested by myself as well ) at the highest capacity. They even sell the newer 21 and 20700 type cells. All products shipped from Fla. Fast shipping too. Every order I placed arrived within 4 days ( east coast ). The protected cells they sell use their own protection circuit which then get the "Orbtronic label" regardless of the actual battery manufacturer. Otherwise you get the basic manufacturer's label if buying unprotected cells. Personally, I won't buy li-ion batteries from any other place.
Well, the more I read the more I tend to think that recent power banks offer the best solution. I've seen a couple of models that accept an input of 30W. I'll probably be looking at the smallest high input model available and get 2 of them.

OTOH, if you have suggestions for a fast charger with USB-out capability, let me know. I don't really care about output Amps since most devices could charge all night. It's the input that I want to maximize.
gauvins is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.