Notices
Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets HRM, GPS, MP3, HID. Whether it's got an acronym or not, here's where you'll find discussions on all sorts of tools, toys and gadgets.

iPhone as bike computer?

Old 08-30-19, 01:24 PM
  #1  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 23,105

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3133 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 133 Posts
iPhone as bike computer?

Wifey says she switched us to unlimited data, so now I can use my iPhone (5s) as a bike computer?
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 08-30-19, 05:47 PM
  #2  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,147
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1756 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 25 Posts
You should be able to use it as a "bike computer" and even as a "bike computer + gps recorder" without using any data at all. (Getting GPS position and recording it doesn't require a data connection.)

You might need data for navigation but even that isn't a certainty. I believe most navigation apps (any worth anything) don't require data (they will let you download maps).

For example, the RWGPS app lets you download the map beforehand (which you could do using WiFi).

Other than downloading maps (which you should do beforehand), there shouldn't be much data usage for any reasonable app.

I wouldn't use anything that required data since you won't always have a cell connection.

Last edited by njkayaker; 08-30-19 at 05:50 PM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 08-31-19, 05:06 PM
  #3  
JohnJ80
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,026

Bikes: N+1=5

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 565 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Well, you can. If you have any ANT+ sensors, they won't work. Only BT sensors will operate with the iPhone.

FWIW, after having used most of the bike computer apps, they are at best just mediocre. The displays usually have a hard time keeping up with direct sunlight and not tearing up the battery.
JohnJ80 is offline  
Old 08-31-19, 07:11 PM
  #4  
BookFinder 
Lifelong wheel gazer ...
 
BookFinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lower US 48
Posts: 282

Bikes: 4 good ones, 1 junker

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts
The IP5s has its own gps chip. The only thing you will need is a cycling app to save specific data. I used a 5s until I upgraded to a 7s last year.

Apps: After weeks of reading and several experiments to decide which app to settle on, I opted for MapMyFitness for tracking miles and rides. Just load the app, then stash the phone in a tail bag or some other secure location. So far I've not forgotten to retrieve it and save the ride, etc.

As a caveat, if you are looking for something that works for an odometer and onboard speedometer, the phone can provide the speedometer but the odometer will probably call for a dedicated unit such as a Cateye, or such as that.
__________________
Current bikes: '80's era Cannondale police bike; '03 Schwinn mongrel MTB; '03 Specialized Hard Rock (the wife's)
Past bikes: '97 Giant ATX 840 project bike; '01 Giant TCR1 SL; and a truckload of miscellaneous bikes used up by the kids and grand-kids

Status quo is the mental bastion of the intellectually lethargic...
BookFinder is offline  
Old 09-01-19, 08:07 AM
  #5  
sdmc530
Heft On Wheels
 
sdmc530's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2,118

Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 78 Posts
I know it tough to justify sometimes to purchase a bike specific computer but coming from an iPhone set up back in the day and breaking one iPhone its way cheaper to get a whatever brand computer for the bike than replacing or fixing a iPhone. My current iPhone was $800! I don't ride with it at all way to spendy, my Garmin was only $199.

Glad I got a Garmin.

BUT an iPhone works fine. Data is a bit slower for real time and no ANT+ options but it does work. Data and battery life were still a bit of an issue with the iPhone but sounds like you would only have to overcome battery life.
sdmc530 is offline  
Old 09-01-19, 12:40 PM
  #6  
Steve B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 3,371

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Soma Smoothie, Miyata City Liner, Specialized FSR Comp, Fuji Professional

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1158 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by sdmc530 View Post
I know it tough to justify sometimes to purchase a bike specific computer but coming from an iPhone set up back in the day and breaking one iPhone its way cheaper to get a whatever brand computer for the bike than replacing or fixing a iPhone. My current iPhone was $800! I don't ride with it at all way to spendy, my Garmin was only $199.

Glad I got a Garmin.

BUT an iPhone works fine. Data is a bit slower for real time and no ANT+ options but it does work. Data and battery life were still a bit of an issue with the iPhone but sounds like you would only have to overcome battery life.
Lots of folks just buy a cheap Android or old iPhone on e-bay, never activate it as phone and just use it to navigate.

I agree with others though, and these are common comments on this subject of “phone vs. dedicated GPS”, is that screen visibility can be an issue, battery life is not as good sometimes, though you can easily add a battery stick, and the touch screen can be an issues with gloves.
Steve B. is online now  
Likes For Steve B.:
Old 09-02-19, 08:45 AM
  #7  
RGMN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 13 Posts
I used to use an iPhone 5 as my primary workout computer (cycling, running, walking/hiking, skiing) and it worked fine, even with ANT+ sensors. I do use a fiscia key to make those work, however, as I haven't found a reasonably affordable BLE stride sensor.

Like others have said, the biggest drawbacks with using the phone as the computer are the display is very hard to read in sunlight and using the phone display kills battery life. I solved both by using a Wahoo RFLKT+ display, so the iphone, safely tucked away, gathered the data but the RFLKT+ showed the data and controlled the phone. Phone battery life was never an issue with this setup. I rode a century and easily had over half the battery left at the end of the ride. I really like the setup until Wahoo screwed-up their app and I started to lose workouts.

Now I have a Garmin Edge 130 and wouldn't go back. It works SO much better on the bike. I still need to figure out a good setup for the rest of my activities, however, as I am really not that enthused about the Strava app I've been using for them.
RGMN is offline  
Old 09-02-19, 09:25 AM
  #8  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Posts: 37,469

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1973 Raleigh Twenty, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 435 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5624 Post(s)
Liked 214 Times in 154 Posts
I use an iphone 6s and ridewithgps. I use a Quad Lock case and a Quad Lock handlebar mount. For longish rides, I connect the phone to an external battery. With that battery, I can leave the screen on all day, and my phone's battery will still be at 100% by the end of the day. I tried lots of different mounts, and none of them satisfied me before I got the Quad Lock stuff. I like it so much, I got mounts for my wife's cars, and I got her a case so she can mount her phone on her dashboard.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Likes For noglider:
Old 09-02-19, 11:29 AM
  #9  
BritishV8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 62

Bikes: 1979 Bridgestone SkyWay, 1990 Bridgestone RB-1, 2002 Specialized Hardrock Comp, 2018 Soma Smoothie

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I prefer an iPhone to a dedicated bike computer.

The iPhone display is plenty bright for my eyes - and I usually don't even run it at full brightness. Perhaps thats partly due to the excellent case I'm using, which shades the display somewhat. More on that below...

My phone's battery is currently good for about 60 miles... but with a $25 Anker "PowerCore Lite" portable charger (connected via Rock Space 180-degree charging cord), it's good for at least 300 miles. On hot days, I can only plug into the charger periodically, because in an enclosed space the iPhone will get too warm while charging and shut itself off.

I use the Wahoo app while riding, and then download my rides to Strava later.

For sensors: I enthusiastically recommend a Wahoo heart rate monitor. I've had pretty good luck with Topeak/Panobike cadence/speed sensors, but I don't recommend their heart rate monitor. Favero Assioma power meter pedals are on my shopping list - I know they'll work fine with iPhone - but I haven't justified the cost yet.

I probably wouldn't have picked the case I carry my iPhone in - it was a gift - but I quickly came to love it. It was made by a company called Wheel Up, and it's awesome because in addition to the phone it holds essentials like keys, ID's, power bars, chapsticks, nose-rags, my portable charger, the second iPhone I carry for work, etc.

I like the Wheel Up bag so much, I bought one for my commuter bike and another for my mountain bike. (They're only about $11 each. They do work better on my road bikes though... due to flatter stem angle.)

This set-up has served me well for over 5000 miles, so far.

BritishV8 is offline  
Old 09-02-19, 10:19 PM
  #10  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,465

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2910 Post(s)
Liked 243 Times in 185 Posts
It can be done, but it's a compromise. Even my smaller, lighter weight iPhone 4s is heavy compared with most bike computers, and the battery doesn't last long.

I do use the iPhone 4s with an older 2012 era Wahoo Fitness sensor pack. This includes a housing that adds ANT+ capability. It has a cadence sensor and a wheel sensor that reaches the rear wheel wirelessly, which is handy for indoor trainer sessions. That's pretty much all I use the device for. It doesn't last quite 2 hours on outdoor rides and is heavy. The only time I use the iPhone and Wahoo pack outdoors is to try something new, like a slow cadence drill on a nearby 5 mile loop. But it's useless for a 50 mile ride and too heavy to bother with.

Mostly I set my Android phone to Wahoo Fitness to record rides (sometimes with my Wahoo Tickr heart monitor) and stick the phone in a pocket. I don't look at the phone again unless I get a call or during a rest break. I don't bother checking my ride data until I get home.

I don't even have a basic computer on either road bike at the moment. I took it off when changing the handlebar a few months ago and never put the computer back on.

But I am considering one of the Bryton computers with GPS, ANT+ and compatibility with phones, Strava, etc., for less than $100. They get pretty good reviews, are compatible with my Wahoo sensors, and are smaller and lighter than a phone.
canklecat is online now  
Old 09-03-19, 12:27 PM
  #11  
Drew Eckhardt 
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Posts: 5,733
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
Wifey says she switched us to unlimited data, so now I can use my iPhone (5s) as a bike computer?
It depends.

Phone screens are less visible than LCD in bright sunlight, you only get four hours of screen time, the capacitive touch screens register rain drops as presses, and most phones won't interface to standard ANT+ sensors.

I wouldn't.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Likes For Drew Eckhardt:
Old 09-03-19, 01:15 PM
  #12  
shelgame
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
In my experience, the iPhones GPS sucks. I bought a Lezyne Super GPS. Much better accuracy, if you care about using the GPS for speed/distance...
shelgame is offline  
Old 09-03-19, 04:36 PM
  #13  
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,617

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3465 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 45 Posts
I use an old iphone 4 with no cell service for Strava and paired to BT HRM. I keep it in pocket since I don't care to see stats until after ride. Then I use wifi to upload activity once home.
noisebeam is offline  
Old 09-03-19, 04:42 PM
  #14  
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,617

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3465 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
It can be done, but it's a compromise. Even my smaller, lighter weight iPhone 4s is heavy compared with most bike computers, and the battery doesn't last long.
I use an old iphone 4s and when set to airplane mode I can record tracks in Strava for two full days of backpacking as long as I don't take pictures or keep the screen on extended periods. Your battery is aged.
noisebeam is offline  
Old 09-03-19, 04:56 PM
  #15  
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,617

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3465 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
GPS is a sensor. If you don’t have any sensors, the phone is largely useless except as a phone.
GPS is a receiver. Sensors convert physical input into electrical.
noisebeam is offline  
Old 09-03-19, 06:21 PM
  #16  
JohnJ80
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,026

Bikes: N+1=5

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 565 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
GPS is a receiver. Sensors convert physical input into electrical.
Yep. And that is EXACTLY what a gps sensor does. It converts physical input (gps RF) into electrical digital information. Distinction without a difference. There are lots of “sensors” that are “receivers” and vice versa.

But don’t accept my word for it. How about Garmin’s? Here’s where they are selling their GPS sensors for OEM applications.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/oem/...Boards-p1.html

In fact, it’s fairly common in the industry to refer to them as such and interchangeably. At least it was when I worked in the business in engineering.

Last edited by JohnJ80; 09-03-19 at 06:33 PM.
JohnJ80 is offline  
Old 09-03-19, 11:17 PM
  #17  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,465

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2910 Post(s)
Liked 243 Times in 185 Posts
Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
I use an old iphone 4s and when set to airplane mode I can record tracks in Strava for two full days of backpacking as long as I don't take pictures or keep the screen on extended periods. Your battery is aged.
I use my old iPhone 4s with various Wahoo sensors, which use Bluetooth and/or ANT+. That drains power quicker. Just leaving Bluetooth enabled drains the battery quicker without using any activities apps.

And leaving the display enabled so I can see my speed, cadence, heart rate, etc, drains it even quicker. That's the whole reason I got those doodads.

But, yup, in airplane mode or just disabling Bluetooth that old 4s will still last a couple of days or longer between charges.

A dedicated bike computer like the sub-$100 Brytons would make better sense. Longer run time per battery/charge, lighter weight, more functional, works with the same Wahoo sensors.
canklecat is online now  
Old 09-04-19, 07:56 AM
  #18  
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,617

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3465 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 45 Posts
I rarely look at screen when using Strava whether hiking or cycling. I just record tracks and HR and review afterward. Looking at the screen would certainly drain the battery fast. There are definitley other low cost options, but the 4s was free. (There have also been some iterations of Strava and/or iOS versions that resulted in battery draining in a few hours, but this has been fixed for a while now)
noisebeam is offline  
Old 09-04-19, 06:52 PM
  #19  
denada
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: chicago
Posts: 75

Bikes: '92 trek 700, '07 jamis ventura race

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
my iphone se will go to sleep after a few minutes unless apple navigation on car mode is running as the front/currently selected app. gps tracking apps will still run in the background in sleep mode, but that doesn't help with navigation. maybe there is some way to change that in settings. the apple navigation app doesn't have a bike mode, and even with highways unselected it will still take me on more foolish routes than a garmin.
denada is offline  
Old 09-04-19, 08:14 PM
  #20  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,147
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1756 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
GPS is a sensor. If you don’t have any sensors, the phone is largely useless except as a phone.
GPS is a receiver. Sensors convert physical input into electrical.
Pretty much, "everything" is or uses a sensor.

Clearly, the discussion was concerning the need for external sensors.

He either knows this (like everybody else) and is trolling or is just obtuse. In any case, he's way out in the weeds. I'd recommend not following him there.

It's silly of him to suggest that people didn't realize smartphones didn't use a GPS receiver.

======================

"Sensor" is usually used to indicate something that measures a fairly-basic physical change (which is what you basically said).

A GPS receiver is doing more than mere "sensing". So, referring to a GPS receiver as a "sensor" is imprecise (sloppy).

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sensor

a device that responds to a physical stimulus (such as heat, light, sound, pressure, magnetism, or a particular motion) and transmits a resulting impulse (as for measurement or operating a control)

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-04-19 at 09:12 PM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 09-04-19, 08:16 PM
  #21  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,147
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1756 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
GPS is a sensor. If you don’t have any sensors, the phone is largely useless except as a phone.
No, without any sensors, it wouldn't be a phone.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 09-06-19, 01:57 PM
  #22  
dougmc
Senior Member
 
dougmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,037

Bikes: Burly Canto

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Personally, I'd suggest not using a phone as a cyclocomputer unless it's a very occasional thing -- it works, but there's just so many compromises, especially regarding battery life and the phone going to sleep trying to save its battery.

Instead, just get a basic cyclocomputer, or if you want a GPS I'd suggest buying a used Garmin -- 305s are often available around here for $20, for example. Or if you want to go new, get a basic GPS -- the Bryton Rider 10 is only $60, for example.

That said, if you need it for occasional navigation, the phone can be good for that -- but if you need it for that a lot, it's worthwhile to buy a dedicated GPS unit that can do it -- and it doesn't have to be the latest and greatest. For example, the Garmin 705 and Garmin Touring can be had on eBay for less than $100 and they do a good job of this -- and the maps can be replaced for free with up to date OpenStreetMaps, and this can also get you things like trails and such that aren't included in the stock maps.
dougmc is offline  
Old 09-07-19, 10:34 AM
  #23  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Posts: 37,469

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1973 Raleigh Twenty, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 435 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5624 Post(s)
Liked 214 Times in 154 Posts
Everything is a compromise. I'm not saying @dougmc should be satisfied. I'm saying I am satisfied, and some others will be, just as some others won't be. For one thing, pressing the screen is quite difficult while riding, since I can't steady my finger enough to be precise. But I already own too many gadgets, and I can't manage a bike computer. This also saves money, so I'm willing to make compromises. I record every ride with ridewithgps. I sometimes mount my phone to the handlebars so I can view it. On long rides, I set the screen to stay on constantly, and I connect an external battery to the phone so I'm not using the phone's battery.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 09-08-19, 03:32 PM
  #24  
Steve B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 3,371

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Soma Smoothie, Miyata City Liner, Specialized FSR Comp, Fuji Professional

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1158 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
No, that's you!

(It's not circular. It's absurd.)

Keep digging that hole!!
NJ, just a thought that myself and others have found your posts to be difficult to deal with on occasion. Please note that you are (IMO) a really valuable member here, not that it's my place to judge, but you have exceptional knowledge of the subject of GPS devices that is typically correct and of a depth that helps novices understand what they might be seeing or experiencing. I have learned much from your posts and mostly value the information, if sometimes not the tone. But I like to think that adults can on occasion take a wee bit of constructive criticism.

On occasion it seems you are arguing with somebody that is agreeing with you for the most part, on what are often times just nuances of language. Thus the "circular argument" that I and others have to deal with. I am aware of how hard it is to reply to posts in such a way that a response doesn't come off condescending, or in an obnoxious way. My grammar and ability to type is challenged at times (I paid zero attention to such things in grade school) and at times will realize I typed something snarky, when it was inappropriate and have at times gone back and typed an apologetic reply. Thing is, the others here are adults as you are and the endless arguments become childish and doesn't serve you well, nor your argument or point. I've yet to find a method to changing another adults mind on most thing especially in the written text format of internet forums and I think that's what you get looped into, an endless need to change a person's opinion and you're not going to do that.

Just some thoughts.
Steve B. is online now  
Old 09-09-19, 06:56 AM
  #25  
BillyD
Administrator
 
BillyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 25,593

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92

Mentioned: 271 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6250 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 68 Posts
Its a new day, let's hope you two guys can move on and agree to disagree.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
BillyD is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.