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Old 08-10-20, 01:10 PM
  #26  
njkayaker
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Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
From this reader's perspective, you both went into areas I did/do not understand. So there's that perspective. Lol. But I have to say that the finer points of the issue(s) intrigue me... but maybe not enough to learn about all those distinctions!
It's not that complicated. It just requires being clear about what "format" means.

"Course points" are a little confusing. They are "turn information" embedded in the file. They are mostly intended for Edges that don't use maps.

The Edges that do use maps can use "course point" and "turn guidance".

I wasn't going to talk about "course points" because it's likely that you'll just be confused by them (at the moment).
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Old 08-10-20, 05:24 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
The problem is that what you are saying is vague and unclear. It doesn't help anybody understand how this stuff works.

A TCX file (one format) can have "course points" or not have "course points". The format is the same.

The difference in behavior is due to a difference in data (not the format).

"Format" refers to how data is stored/represented. It doesn't refer to what data is stored.


Garmin Connect, using the same format (FIT), outputs different data for different models (it doesn't output normal course points for models that use maps).

Different sites might not ever output course points for FIT or TCX.

So, what you are saying isn't correct and doesn't help people understand what is going on.

And this is irrelevant for people who are not using course points.

===========================
  • The behavior of the different formats for turn guidance is the same.
  • The behavior of the different formats for track following (on/off course), used by all the units, is the same.
  • If the file (regardless of the format) doesn't have course points, you won't get course points.
  • GPX files will never have course points.
  • TCX and FIT files won't necessarily have course points.
So it now I'm thinking the whole thing that has you riled up is that I used the word "format" when I should have used the word "type".

All I know is that I do get different results when I've created courses on a website and saved them as different file "types" and put them in the /garmin/newfiles folder of several devices and let the device import the file.

RWGPS routes can be exported with a choice of multiple types. Some multiple ways for the same type. Here are their current choices and not all will produce a course. And some won't even work with various devices.

FIT Course (.fit)
TCX Course (.tcx)
TCX History (.tcx)
GPX Track (.gpx)
Google Earth (.kml)
GPX Route (.gpx)
Cuesheet CSV (.csv)
Map/Profile Images

Regardless, they may or will contain different data. So I'll now use the word file type, and see if that is okay. MapMyRide, Strava and others do similar stuff. They put different data in different file types.

If someone exports a file to their device and does as I do, and manually put it in the /garmin/newfiles folder, it might have different results depending on what type file it was exported as.

I've had differing results with several garmin devices. Mostly on an Edge 500 without maps and some on an Edge 820 which does have maps. Sorry I'm vague, but it was a while back. I know that isn't real helpful, but it seems that trying out a different file type might give some different results and knowing what those results are might help getting us some more to babble about.
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Old 08-10-20, 05:31 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I'm thinking though that what you are getting is actually from the 830's navigation software and not contained in the course file you created. You may or may not have much control of that. As I don't use navigation features, I'm not the one to tell you with any certainty.
I am.

Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
So it now I'm thinking the whole thing that has you riled up is that I used the word "format" when I should have used the word "type".
That's better but you still provide no insight at all as to what the differences are.

Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Sorry I'm vague, but it was a while back. I know that isn't real helpful,...
No, it's not helpful and is just confusing people. Your insistence on being vague and not helpful is what is "riling" me.

Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
FIT Course (.fit) ==>> Track file (with course points).

TCX Course (.tcx) ==>> Track file (with course points).

TCX History (.tcx) ==>> Track file (no course points). If you don't want course points in a TCX file, this is option to choose (it will work just like GPX track). Mostly IRRELEVANT to current thread.

GPX Track (.gpx) ==>> Track file (no course points). You might only be able to get a GPX file. You want to know that it will still work! Other than not having course points, it will work the same!

Google Earth (.kml) ==>> Not a format the Edges can use. IRRELEVANT to current thread.

GPX Route (.gpx) ==>> This only contains "waypoints" ==> It's not a track file. This option doesn't work properly on the Edges. IRRELEVANT to current thread.

Cuesheet CSV (.csv) ==>> Comma-separated cuesheet text. IRRELEVANT to current thread.

Map/Profile Images ==>> These are bitmaps (pictures) of the map and elevation program, IRRELEVANT to current thread.
I know all about these. RWGPS doesn't really explain what's different about them.

Note that there are two options for TCX (the same format) but with different data.
Note that there are two options for GPX (the same format) but with different data.

The Edges require "track" files. They can also use "course points" (but that's optional).

Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I know that isn't real helpful, but it seems that trying out a different file type might give some different results and knowing what those results are might help getting us some more to babble about.
No, this is a waste of time. It's better if you understand what the differences are.

Last edited by njkayaker; 08-10-20 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 08-10-20, 06:19 PM
  #29  
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For RWGPS on the Edges*, here's all you need to know:

  • FIT Course (.fit) and TCX Course (.tcx) ==>> Track file with course points. These options work the same way (they contain the same data). Both have course points. Use these for devices that don't use maps. Use on units that use maps if you want course points.

  • GPX Track (.gpx) ==>> Track file (no course points). This option works the same way on all units EXCEPT these files DO NOT HAVE course points.

  • Ignore the other options!

  • For units that don't use maps (500, 510, 520), the only way to get turn instructions is with "course points". Without course points, you'll just get basic track following. Prefer TCX or FIT for these units.

  • For units that do use maps (520+, 530, 800, 810, 820, 830, Touring, Explore, 1000, 1030, 1030+ you can get turn instructions as "turn guidance" (which shows up as big white arrows). Turn guidance works independently from course points. That is, for these units, you don't need to use a file that has course points.

  • "Turn guidance" requires that the track follows/traces the road/paths on the map installed on the device.

  • "Course points" don't use the map on the device. They work when you go "off road".

------------------------------
* The 705/605 don't use FIT or TCX (I forget which).

Last edited by njkayaker; 08-10-20 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 08-12-20, 07:14 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Sorry, I was thinking of the courses I make in Garmin Connect. Those have a speed that you can change to give yourself a time goal.
It appears that you can get "estimated time" with a basic subscription to RWGPS.
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Old 08-12-20, 08:47 AM
  #31  
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There is a RWGPS app that can be installed on your 830. It's been working great for me on the 530. I don't know what impact this has on the U-turn issue, file type (format), etc.
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Old 08-12-20, 08:50 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by tntyz View Post
There is a RWGPS app that can be installed on your 830. It's been working great for me on the 530. I don't know what impact this has on the U-turn issue, file type (format), etc.
Absolutely no impact.

The RWGPS app is just a shortcut for downloading the same FIT file that you can download in other ways.
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