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Firmware 6.0 and the 830 and RTL515

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Firmware 6.0 and the 830 and RTL515

Old 08-27-20, 12:46 PM
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Firmware 6.0 and the 830 and RTL515

I upgraded my 830 to FW 6.0 (from 5.5) a few days ago. I've had a few issues that I didn't notice on FW 5.5. But it could be that I only have a few weeks experience with the 830 and RTL515 on FW5.5.

Today I got about 1/2 mile from the house and couldn't remember closing the garage door, so I reversed course (the 830 wanting to recalc) but didn't touch the 830. After verifying the garage door closure, I turned around and resumed my ride and assumed the 830 would pick back up once I reached the spot where I turned around. Nope. I went about a quarter mile past that spot and it never picked back up, so I hit the recalc button, then got a recal error and had to cancel the route and re-select the route.

I don't know that I ever duplicated that scenario under 5.5, but I don't recall ever seeing a recalc error like that. I've now seen issues with the recalc function on a couple of rides since the update to 6.0

And as regards the RTL 515, I've had a couple instances where it hasn't reported a vehicle behind me. The first time I thought was just an anomaly or maybe I wasn't quite sure if it missed the vehicle or not. Today, there was a 3rd vehicle a few hundred yards behind a 2nd vehicle that was never reported. I saw the first 2 vehicles on my 830, but the 3rd one never showed up. It was a late model Tacoma 4 door pickup, so no way it missed it. OTOH, a cyclist snuck up on me later in my ride and my RTL 515 notified me of closing traffic... and the overtaking cyclist was the culprit.

I don't recall ever seeing the RTL 515 miss overtaking traffic prior to the FW 6.0 update. But again, I've only had the equipment for a few weeks, so I may not have been in a similar scenario with the older FW.

Lastly, I've noticed lately (since the update) that my 830 is giving me some bogus navigation instructions (turn onto off roads from my route). Since I know where I'm going, I just ignore the instructions and cycle on and the 830 figures itself out and joins back up without further input from me.

I think I'm going to delete all the saved coursed in my 830 and transfer them back over from my PC and see if that resolves that minor issue.

Anyone else seen similar anomalies since the update to 6.0?

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Old 08-28-20, 06:30 AM
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I've seen a lot more satellite drops and the resulting speed/distance errors and generally poor tracking on my 530, even in situations where there was very light tree coverage that shouldn't have been problematic. On a couple of rides on my ~18 mile recovery ride loop, I've lost ~1 and ~2 miles, respectively.

Some phone notifications, texts specifically, haven't come through, either.

I haven't noticed any issues with my RTL 510.

My own caveat to this is that don't have a huge frame of reference for either this particular 530 or for Garmin devices in general; I picked up this particular 530 a few days prior to the FW update as a replacement to another 530 that bricked on me, and I'd only owned that 530 for a week (prior to which I was using a Wahoo Bolt).
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Old 08-28-20, 08:26 AM
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On any Garmin device, when I have an issue after an update, I do a reset. Many times that fixes oddball things. Just what some call a soft reset that doesn't affect user data. Normally hold the power button for ten or so seconds till it restarts. No sure what the procedure is on yours.

Some at the Garmin Forum used to recommend doing a reset after every update.
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Old 08-28-20, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
On any Garmin device, when I have an issue after an update, I do a reset. Many times that fixes oddball things. Just what some call a soft reset that doesn't affect user data. Normally hold the power button for ten or so seconds till it restarts. No sure what the procedure is on yours.

Some at the Garmin Forum used to recommend doing a reset after every update.
Sounds like a good idea. I'll try that.

And just to be safe, I backed up the files specified here:
https://support.garmin.com/en-MY/?fa...aC3xrXxmQj7U9A

Edit: I assume you mean a soft reset and not a hard reset?

I do something similar on my Android phone after an update. I always wipe the system cache from recovery. I find that gives me a fresh start on the new update and gets rid of any leftover debris from the prior firmware. Keeps the data and seems to eliminate upgrade issues (heavy battery drain, etc) that sometimes comes along with an upgrade without having to do a factory reset (which is always my last option).

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Old 09-03-20, 12:53 PM
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36 miles into my ride today and had another missed vehicle with my RTL515. Again, it was behind another vehicle, but a good distance behind... probably 30-40 meters or more. Simply no reason for it to be missed. I got the green alert that the first vehicle passed me (and visually confirmed) and the 2nd vehicle was approaching from the rear but I never saw an alert on my 830 today. While 1 vehicle out of over 300 ain't bad, it ain't good either. I wouldn't expect it to miss any approaching vehicles.

I don't know if this is a function/issue of firmware 6.0.... or if maybe these vehicles have a radar jammer. I kinda doubt the latter... but no way to really know. Would a radar jammer defeat the RTL515? Anyone know?
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Old 09-03-20, 01:14 PM
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I think a large part of what the Varia is looking at is closure rate. So if the vehicle was coming up on you very slowly, it might not show.

I do know that sometimes when I follow my son, I can shadow his varia from seeing cars in some circumstance. He has one of the first versions of Varia. Not sure what model number at the moment.
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Old 09-03-20, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
36 miles into my ride today and had another missed vehicle with my RTL515. Again, it was behind another vehicle, but a good distance behind... probably 30-40 meters or more. Simply no reason for it to be missed. I got the green alert that the first vehicle passed me (and visually confirmed) and the 2nd vehicle was approaching from the rear but I never saw an alert on my 830 today. While 1 vehicle out of over 300 ain't bad, it ain't good either. I wouldn't expect it to miss any approaching vehicles.

I don't know if this is a function/issue of firmware 6.0.... or if maybe these vehicles have a radar jammer. I kinda doubt the latter... but no way to really know. Would a radar jammer defeat the RTL515? Anyone know?
Are you saying that it wasn't marked (as a dot) on your screen? Or that it was on the screen but you just didn't get a warning beep for that particular vehicle?

I've recently noticed the latter, where I won't get a notification for a new car at the edge of detection if there's already a car that's closer. It's a bit disconcerting because you can get one beep and have another car sneak in to range just as the first car passes, leaving you with a car behind you long after you've forgotten about the original warning beep. It might be more obnoxious if it beeped for every single car, but I'd rather it be obnoxious and keep me on my toes as opposed to being so polite as to lull me.
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Old 09-03-20, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Are you saying that it wasn't marked (as a dot) on your screen? Or that it was on the screen but you just didn't get a warning beep for that particular vehicle?

I've recently noticed the latter, where I won't get a notification for a new car at the edge of detection if there's already a car that's closer. It's a bit disconcerting because you can get one beep and have another car sneak in to range just as the first car passes, leaving you with a car behind you long after you've forgotten about the original warning beep. It might be more obnoxious if it beeped for every single car, but I'd rather it be obnoxious and keep me on my toes as opposed to being so polite as to lull me.
I did not get a dot representing the car. The only way I knew it was behind me was by looking in my helmet mounted mirror. This is at least the 2nd time I've observed the RTL515 missing overtaking traffic since I updated to 6.0. I just don't know if 6.0 has anything to do with the RTL515 missing overtaking traffic or not. I didn't have the RTL515 long enough under 5.5 to know whether the issue happened there too.
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Old 09-03-20, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I think a large part of what the Varia is looking at is closure rate. So if the vehicle was coming up on you very slowly, it might not show.

I do know that sometimes when I follow my son, I can shadow his varia from seeing cars in some circumstance. He has one of the first versions of Varia. Not sure what model number at the moment.
In both cases where I've observed the RTL515 missing the overtaking traffic, there has been a large delta in the overtaking speed... so in neither case was the overtaking car coming up on me slowly. I have no explanation as to why the Varia would miss overtaking traffic.

I was riding solo in both instances, so there was no possibility of another rider blocking the Varia. And in both cases, the missed vehicle was trailing one or more vehicles by 30-50 meters or so and passing me at normal speeds with deltas of probably at least 20-30 mph. The lead vehicle was shown by the normal dot on the side. The trailing vehicle never showed up with the representative dot as would be expected.
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Old 09-04-20, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
I did not get a dot representing the car. The only way I knew it was behind me was by looking in my helmet mounted mirror. This is at least the 2nd time I've observed the RTL515 missing overtaking traffic since I updated to 6.0. I just don't know if 6.0 has anything to do with the RTL515 missing overtaking traffic or not. I didn't have the RTL515 long enough under 5.5 to know whether the issue happened there too.

Hmmm. Positioning of the Varia seems to be by the book, though, in terms of height and below any obstructions, like the rear wheel, saddle bag, racks, etc? Other than that, I've got nothing, then, but missing cars like that would be concerning to me, too.
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Old 09-04-20, 07:57 AM
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Sounds like it's time to call Garmin Support. I highly recommend you actually call them. The email support is slow and the responses usually things as silly as "ensure the device is turned on", "charge the device fully", and a bunch of other steps that you've already probably tried and will be fruitless.

Their phone support, at least for North America is very good. Likely you'll call and the VRU will tell you there are many calls ahead of you. But it offers you a chance to allow them to call you back and they do. Usually the same day and within about thirty to forty-five minutes. While they will start with the same items that they would have ask in the emails, you can quickly do those and satisfy them there is something else going on.

Being in warranty doesn't matter. They'll try to help you regardless until they've exhausted all things they can think of. As well, if it appears an issue with the update, then I'd imagine the more customers they find impacted by it the better their response for correcting it.

I'll have to find out if my son has the latest update on his Edge 820 and RTL-500 and see if it gives any less than what I consider fabulous performance for what it is.

Do you have the separate display unit that allows you to use it without an Edge device? If so, try using it and maybe you'll find it's something in the Edge and maybe leans more toward a issue with the update.
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Old 09-04-20, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Hmmm. Positioning of the Varia seems to be by the book, though, in terms of height and below any obstructions, like the rear wheel, saddle bag, racks, etc? Other than that, I've got nothing, then, but missing cars like that would be concerning to me, too.
Yes. Here's a quick pic hanging on the wall. It appears perfectly positioned to me. I can take another pic later in the correct orientation if needed.

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Old 09-04-20, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Sounds like it's time to call Garmin Support. I highly recommend you actually call them. The email support is slow and the responses usually things as silly as "ensure the device is turned on", "charge the device fully", and a bunch of other steps that you've already probably tried and will be fruitless.

Their phone support, at least for North America is very good. Likely you'll call and the VRU will tell you there are many calls ahead of you. But it offers you a chance to allow them to call you back and they do. Usually the same day and within about thirty to forty-five minutes. While they will start with the same items that they would have ask in the emails, you can quickly do those and satisfy them there is something else going on.

Being in warranty doesn't matter. They'll try to help you regardless until they've exhausted all things they can think of. As well, if it appears an issue with the update, then I'd imagine the more customers they find impacted by it the better their response for correcting it.

I'll have to find out if my son has the latest update on his Edge 820 and RTL-500 and see if it gives any less than what I consider fabulous performance for what it is.

Do you have the separate display unit that allows you to use it without an Edge device? If so, try using it and maybe you'll find it's something in the Edge and maybe leans more toward a issue with the update.
I echo your support experience with Garmin. I'll give them a call later.

I'm not familiar with the separate display unit. My Vivoactive HR watch also shows the traffic info, if that counts.
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Old 09-05-20, 02:10 PM
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I won't swear to this and I may be totally wrong but I'm thinking that Garmin has a sensitivity setting in it's computers that may have something to do with your problem. I say this because I have several friends with Varia radars and it seems that the detection sensitivity is different by device. One of my friends has an RTL 510 connected to the Varia control head that comes with the bundle. His display will show approaching cars but not bicycles. Another friend has the RTL 515 connected to his phone and RWGPS. He will pick up approaching cars as well as approaching bicycles. My RTL 510 is connected to a Wahoo Bolt and another friend's RTL 515 is connected to a Wahoo Roam. Both of us can pick up approaching cars and bicycles and if we are stopped, we pick up approaching pedestrians. To me, that sort of points to a sensitivity issue.

What you might want to consider before contacting support is to download RWGPS, if you don't already have it on your phone. Since the 515 has both Ant+ and Bluetooth, connect it to your phone using the Bluetooth channel. The free version of RWGPS will allow you to connect to the Varia so you can run them at the same time and see if one or both are missing the same approaching vehicle. If RWGPS detects the vehicle and your Garmin doesn't, that would appear to me that the problem is in your computer.
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Old 09-05-20, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by speedlever View Post
I echo your support experience with Garmin. I'll give them a call later.

I'm not familiar with the separate display unit. My Vivoactive HR watch also shows the traffic info, if that counts.
The original Varia and I suppose others came with a display unit that fit on your bars too. I guess it was for those that didn't have an Edge or other Garmin device to control and display the info with.

I don't have a Varia myself, but am supposing a lot of stuff based on what my son tells me about his and what I've read elsewhere since I am interested in getting one at some point. But then I keep thinking how that money could also make a powermeter of some sort happen quicker.

And it's also time to replace my very old but works well Edge 500. Being able to see phone notifications and control bike lights is something that I think I'd like to have. Many times lately I've had some important calls and text msgs I've missed while riding because I'm oblivious to my phones ring in my back jersey pocket. Maybe a Edge 530 for me.
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Old 09-07-20, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by John_V View Post
I won't swear to this and I may be totally wrong but I'm thinking that Garmin has a sensitivity setting in it's computers that may have something to do with your problem. I say this because I have several friends with Varia radars and it seems that the detection sensitivity is different by device. One of my friends has an RTL 510 connected to the Varia control head that comes with the bundle. His display will show approaching cars but not bicycles. Another friend has the RTL 515 connected to his phone and RWGPS. He will pick up approaching cars as well as approaching bicycles. My RTL 510 is connected to a Wahoo Bolt and another friend's RTL 515 is connected to a Wahoo Roam. Both of us can pick up approaching cars and bicycles and if we are stopped, we pick up approaching pedestrians. To me, that sort of points to a sensitivity issue.

What you might want to consider before contacting support is to download RWGPS, if you don't already have it on your phone. Since the 515 has both Ant+ and Bluetooth, connect it to your phone using the Bluetooth channel. The free version of RWGPS will allow you to connect to the Varia so you can run them at the same time and see if one or both are missing the same approaching vehicle. If RWGPS detects the vehicle and your Garmin doesn't, that would appear to me that the problem is in your computer.
While that sounds like a viable troubleshooting tip (phone app), I don't have a practical means of putting my phone out in view while I ride, nor do I know if the battery would last for long in that mode. I'm not sure how to implement that testing scenario since the missed vehicle issue is random and could occur (or not) at any point of a 3 to 5 hour ride.
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Old 09-07-20, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
snip

And it's also time to replace my very old but works well Edge 500. Being able to see phone notifications and control bike lights is something that I think I'd like to have. Many times lately I've had some important calls and text msgs I've missed while riding because I'm oblivious to my phones ring in my back jersey pocket. Maybe a Edge 530 for me.
I avoid that issue by carrying an old phone that I use for standby purposes. Just a select few people have that number. So I'm not bothered by a bunch of calls or texts during a ride.
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