I use the Apple Watch to make phone calls and answer calls while riding. I use the Karoo2 as the cycling computer. Simple as that. :)

Ditto. Modern IP67+ rated phones will have a marginal if at all disadvantage compared to a cycling computer. After all, the devices tend to all be tested to the same standard. However, a cycling computer does tend to fare better when they're roughed up in a crash or dropped.

Pretty much on target. other than ANT+ connectivity.
Phones are more costly and easier to damage in the bike environment, especially when they need to be frequently dismounted to carry from a parked bike.
Battery life is also an issue whenever you have a big bright color screen.

That said pulling off to make a call after being notified is only prudent and not in the least unreasonable.
We are still quite a way away from a car like mobile PAN that has the flexible capacity that the bigger car market took years to reach.
Bike computers are sort of like Flip-phones and will probably share their trajectory and fate.
Few enough pony up for the added SIM and data link for the Karoo, and I think that is the provenance of the hackers and marketing folks.
Phone still does phone stuff better.
Adding an ANT+ bridge seems to be inexpensive, but adds complexity that has a pretty narrow appeal.
Karoo added a second BT channel, because of the conflicts a single one appeared to create.
It's not like carrying a phone is an added burden, though carrying stuff you don't need is.

Adding a SIM card to a Karoo 2 was $12 for 125 minutes of data time.

I wonder what proportion use them.
The sideloading sounds nifty, but hasn't been compelling and I imagine a VOIP cell could work.
Again ,even without the need to coordinate updates, It would be interesting to see how many are actually using the SIM regularly.
The fiddleyness made me want to get simpler. For the limited uses I have , the phone fills in pretty well .
Advanced navigation, finding group, urgent calls, POI, route changes and complex routes are useful, just not all that common for me
and easy to use my phone.
? Does any one do a serious ride without one?.

I'm active on the Hammerhead FB group. As just a guess, I'd say a minority use a SIM card and mostly those in Europe which has somewhat less restrictive cell service issues, don't know but it seems there are fewer cheap SIM card providers here in the USA ij that I see users list the companies and they are all Euro based. FreedomPop was available and listed on the HH website as a known card that worked, was $12 for the initial card. I see zero usage logged as of today when I used it this morning.

. Ed Wiser I’m confused. Hammerhead say Karoo2 cannot be used for calls, but you’re saying it can. How does running a SIM allow Karoo 2 to work as a phone?

You can sideload a VOIP app that does voice over data.

Karoo say that does not work. I don’t know if only because the unit has no mic, or if there are other tech limitations (e.g. data transfer protocols).

I suppose Bluetooth headphones with mic might be the workaround for the not having one, but are all BT protocols the same and support audio? It’s all beyond what I know about, but Hammerhead did not equivocate about calls not working on the unit either natively or via app.

You'd have to be able to use a BT mic/headphone.

BT protocols are standardized (BT wouldn't work if it wasn't). Different classes of BT devices use different "profiles". It's possible that the Karoo doesn't support all of the BT profiles.

I haven't found anything that anybody has tried to get VOIP to work.

Sideloading is also something that isn't officially supported but it does work (it appears).

In any case, the Karoo wouldn't be that good of a "phone" since the coverage for data is much less than that for voice.

If your're going to do that, why not just pair the BT with your regular phone in your jersey pocket or bag attached to your bike? Unless the goal is to not carry your phone on a ride at all, in which case now I have TWO comms devices with associated numbers/lists/messaging/etc. That sounds like a PITA - "honey, I'm heading out on a ride, remember don't call me on my phone, call me on my Karoo!" :)

The point of using the Karoo as a phone is so you don't need to carry your regular phone (obviously).

Dealing with two phones is a PITA and expensive. Which is a strong reason one isn't likely going to see cycling computers do phone stuff (which is what I keep saying). There might be a few people who would want it but not enough to make the more-expensive device (which I also keep saying).

I think most people are thinking of using the phone feature for emergencies (that is, rarely).

The contact-syncing thing shouldn't be that hard to solve.

Not necessarily. The point could simply be to not have to pull the actual phone out.

As with the Apple Watch which can place and receive calls while connected to the iPhone, obviating the need to handle the phone, I can see the same functionality being handy in a cyclocomputer.

Relatedly, an Apple Watch can call over WiFi even without an iPhone if it connects to a wifi network which the iPhone connected to previously and if the cell carrier service supports wifi calling. I can do this from my iPad and laptop as well, as ifi alling s suppored by Verizon. It’s handy if I take off to the cafe wthout my iPhone, but the use-case for a cyclocomputer is less obvious.

Sure, that's possible but not likely at all. Whoever is calling you would need to know to call you on the other number and you'd need to spend extra to enable it. Compared to just using your regular phone you are carrying, that doesn't seem worth it at all.

The Apple watch is something people would have access to nearly all the time. Having that functionality in something you always have with you is much more valuable.

Sure, some people might see the same functionality as "handy" in a cycle computer but probably not enough to do the engineering work to support it.

The market for the Apple watch is much, much larger than that for cycle computers. You are the second person in this thread that is missing that important thing.

All of these things are, basically, the same kind of devices: technologically, it's possible for all of them to do the same things. The problem is that adding features costs money, money that makes no sense spending unless you can make substantially more selling it.

So, the issue isn't whether it's possible (it's certainly not that hard) or whether it's useful (any feature will be useful to somebody).

The issue is whether there is a sufficient market to make enough to offset the cost of adding the feature.

It's worth doing for the Apple watch since the market for that is huge and not that price sensitive.

It doesn't seem worth doing for cycle computers because the market for that is tiny and, probably, more price sensitive. The fact that you are adding a feature that duplicates the functionality of a device most people are going to also carry (and which is more convenient and cheaper to use) makes it even less worthwhile.

And the market for expensive cycle computers be at some risk of people just opting to use the phones they already have instead.

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No, again, that’s not how it works. As I tried to make clear to you upthread, there is only the phone SIM and only one number.

:rolleyes:

The Apple watch isn't a cycle computer.


The Apple watch works because it's one company coordinating everything for a huge market. Apple can make agreements with carriers that other company (smaller ones, especially) can't.

The Apple watch uses an eSIM. You need a cell plan to use it as a cell phone. The watch is a cellphone.​​​​ (Mapping a phone number to two devices is trivial: It's a database lookup.)


​​https://www.apple.com/watch/cellular/

Again, the issue isn't technology, It's being able to make money.


Again, the issue is it seems that there aren't enough people willing to pay extra for this feature in a cycling computer.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see. ;)

You’re not paying attention and you are not understanding. Any Apple Watch, not just cell enabled ones, can make calls. Cell service is just one of the ways they do it.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...926948ca0f.png

Accurate.

:rolleyes:

Being able to make calls over WiFi is of very limited use on a bicycle.

The issue isn't technological. The Apple watch is more or less just a tiny smartphone.

And just because something is available for the Apple watch (which has a huge market) doesn't mean it will be made available on a cycling computer.