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GPS speedometer as few functions as possible and with USB-C

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GPS speedometer as few functions as possible and with USB-C

Old 04-21-22, 08:34 PM
  #51  
Seattle Forrest
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Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
I think many people here gave good information for me to think about. I'll just spend the rest of the summer to see how much I really moss seeing my instant speed. there are many things i hadn't thought of. So thanks to all.
One last thing. This guy is very OCD and his reviews are better than the manuals. This has tons of pictures and explains literally everything about the Instinct. (He does lots of other tech too.)

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/07/...different.html
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Old 04-22-22, 07:04 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​As a hiker and backcountry skier, I really like being able to know how many miles etc I've done without having to get my phone out. Especially when I have gloves on. ❤️
If you are already using GPS on a non-phone for speed, it doesn't make much sense to use the GPS on a phone to track distance separately. Using the GPS in the phone is just a waste of juice. Having to look at two devices doesn't make much sense either.

Recording distance on a GPS doesn't cost anything extra.

This is a big reason why why the device the OP wants doesn't really exist.

Maybe, the OP doesn't realize that location is the primary data for GPS (and speed is derivative).

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You might find this acceptable. I do. The OP clearly doesn't. I'm trying to provide him true information so that he can make a choice that works for his needs.
Being clear about how things work is fine. The OP just thinks this is harder than it is in fact. For the Instinct, it appears to be a little more work than for the Edges (if you have one profile, there's no issue with picking a profile).

The OP really needs to understand more about how these things work.

What he wants isn't exactly unreasonable. It just seems there's no market for it. That is, no manufacturer sees the exact thing he wants cheaply to be worth making.

The USB-C requirement is a problem because the manufacturers of cheap devices aren't going to see much (any, really) value in redesigning/requalifying what they are already making (and know works) for this minor thing.

A watch would be a good choice for him but it's too expensive and a bit harder to use than he lists as a requirement.

What he needs for the bike is a simple non-GPS cycle computer (that's exactly what he needs there) but he makes that impossible by the complication of needing to use it on the SUP.

Last edited by njkayaker; 04-22-22 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 04-22-22, 07:14 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
I would be OK manually turning on and off. And the auto on/off only would work on a bike computer, not on a watch since it always would be in movement. Maybe the auto on/off only works on a bike computer that uses a hub or spoke sensor.
Yes, cycle computers can turn on automatically with the rotation sensor.

Basically, these computers never turn off. They just go into a very low power mode and "wake up" when they detect a signal from the sensor.

It doesn't really cost more to do this because it's using the parts it already needs.

It works well because "wheel is rotating" meaning "you're riding" is reliable (it's not perfect).

A GPS doesn't need an accelerometer. So, using one is an extra cost (you won't see one on a cheap device).

Last edited by njkayaker; 04-22-22 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 04-22-22, 12:04 PM
  #54  
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https://www.androidauthority.com/eu-...rgers-3155851/

EU wants to mandate USB C for everything. Fortunately, watches still be exempt.
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Old 04-22-22, 12:43 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
https://www.androidauthority.com/eu-...rgers-3155851/

EU wants to mandate USB C for everything. Fortunately, watches still be exempt.
May not apply to already existing devices.

There's a good chance anybody designing a new device would choose USB-C even without this resolution (except manufactures trying to be real cheap).

Anyway, is anybody using a proprietary charger? Laptops seem to be going towards using USB-C already. There are differences (sometimes very significant) in power output but that isn't addressed by this resolution at all.

Chargers have been standard for quite a while and plug differences are dealt with by using a cheap cable.

=========================

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...ectronic-waste

Rapporteur Alex Agius Saliba (MT, S&D) said: “With half a billion chargers for portable devices shipped in Europe each year, generating 11,000 to 13,000 tonnes of e-waste, a single charger for mobile phones and other small and medium electronic devices would benefit everyone.
This doesn't make any real sense. Chargers have been standard for a long while already. The solution is to not include chargers by default.

Last edited by njkayaker; 04-22-22 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 04-22-22, 02:35 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
May not apply to already existing devices.
​​​​​​
​​​​​​It's a pretty safe bet that was law that might be passed in the future won't change how things were already manufactured in the past. Thanks for pointing that out, I guess.
​​​​​​
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
This doesn't make any real sense
​​​​​​
... you don't say ...
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Old 04-22-22, 02:49 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​
​​​​​​It's a pretty safe bet that was law that might be passed in the future won't change how things were already manufactured in the past. Thanks for pointing that out, I guess.
​​​​​​
​​​
It still might.

Itís not going to change much for things made in the future (except iPhones): things were already moving towards USB-C.

And it doesnít address the problem that is said it addresses.

It might nudge cheaper manufacturers to use USB-C in new designs sooner but they still arenít going to make the particular device the OP is looking for.

The resolution doesn't change anything and doesn't help the OP at all. So, it's odd you even brought it up (and complain about people discussing it).

Last edited by njkayaker; 04-22-22 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 04-22-22, 03:53 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
USB C isn't a proprietary Garmin cable. And having that kind of port on the watch would be inconvenient as an owner and probably significantly less waterproof.

​​​​
Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
I fear most will use a proprietary cable. I don't think that is inherently more water-proof than USB-C.
There are starting to be USB-C waterproof connectors in a lot of things and there have been some around for some time. For example, the Hammerhead Karoo2 has one.

On very tiny electronic assemblies like in watches, the issue with a USB-C connector is the internal real estate. That's really valuable volume for a designer and the tradeoff is giving up the volume to a waterproof USB-C connector instead of to a bigger battery. Far and away, the smarter choice is for more battery. FWIW, a USB=C connector is pretty big in the grand scheme of things at this scale.

Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
If there is nothing I like, I just don't have one. A speedometer isn't like a good saddle or brakes that really impact my riding. I rode this morning and didn't think of the speedometer before I rolled back into my garage :-)
​​​​
I'm thinking this answers the whole question. It's either going to be to get something you aren't entirely thrilled about because your feature set does not exist in a product. So you just do without.

Last edited by JohnJ80; 04-22-22 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 04-22-22, 05:31 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​As a hiker and backcountry skier, I really like being able to know how many miles etc I've done without having to get my phone out. Especially when I have gloves on. ❤️
I'm the opposite. For any tracking I don't need to know how many miles while doing whatever I do. I only need to do that later at home (and may or may not post the route and pictures on facebook etc.). I don't even think the Samsung app shows me the distance so far until I "finish" the activity. But what I need while riding/hiking/boating is the map to explore and sometimes to find my way back. I really only get the phone out to take a picture, or if I need to make a decision on where to go at a fork. And for that the large phone screen works better and the phone also has cell-data to update (and to transmit my location to Google, in case my family needs to recover my body :-). I also listen to podcasts on the phone via BT. So for my use, all these functions would be severely compromised on a watch. Obviously for hiking I don't need to know my instant speed. That's only interesting for biking and SUPing (for me anyway).

Someone mentioned GPS drains the phone battery. That is totally irrelevant. I never turned off GPS unless maybe on an actual airplane. Using the screen uses a lot of battery, but GPS is almost nothing compared to all other phone functions. For a small watch battery GPS may matter,. but not for a modern phone. And the overall benefit of GPS to show me on a map where I'm and where I came from outweighs any battery use. Better than any map.

I'm glad someone brought up the (hopefully) upcoming EU regulation regarding USB-C. That is a huge accomplishment to simplify life and reduce waste and those extreme prices manufacturers charge for ever-changing proprietary cables. I'm glad I'm not the only crazy person wanting a single type of cable.
I'm still at 50% of my devices on micro-USB and it will take me years to get them all to USB-C. Until then it is taking many more cables with me (I always take 2 of each, in case one is broken).
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Old 04-22-22, 06:16 PM
  #60  
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Using the screen uses a lot of battery, but GPS is almost nothing compared to all other phone functions. For a small watch battery GPS may matter,.
).[/QUOTE]

My Garmin Instinct 2 Solar is now on 40 some odd days without being charged, running GPS all that time. If I do tracking with it, battery does run down, but its got remarkably good battery life that in theory, can run forever if you solar charge it enough.
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Old 04-22-22, 08:55 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
I'm the opposite. For any tracking I don't need to know how many miles while doing whatever I do. I only need to do that later at home (and may or may not post the route and pictures on facebook etc.). I don't even think the Samsung app shows me the distance so far until I "finish" the activity. But what I need while riding/hiking/boating is the map to explore and sometimes to find my way back. I really only get the phone out to take a picture, or if I need to make a decision on where to go at a fork.
I got the Gaia app a while ago and like it for hiking. There's a free version, without ads I think. You can download maps (trail, topo, satellite, and more) at home and then use them without a data connection.

Usually the way I prepare for a hike, I'll know there's a trail junction at 5 miles, so I'll keep an eye out for it when I've gone about that far.
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Old 04-24-22, 08:54 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
I'm glad someone brought up the (hopefully) upcoming EU regulation regarding USB-C. That is a huge accomplishment to simplify life and reduce waste and those extreme prices manufacturers charge for ever-changing proprietary cables. I'm glad I'm not the only crazy person wanting a single type of cable.
I'm still at 50% of my devices on micro-USB and it will take me years to get them all to USB-C. Until then it is taking many more cables with me (I always take 2 of each, in case one is broken).
This doesn't make any sense.

​​​​​The EU regulations really only affect Apple lightning cables. And reasonably priced ones have been available for many years.

No other manufacturer uses proprietary cables for phones (they haven't used proprietary cables for many years).

The standard for (non Apple) phones was microUSB (and has been for years). They have been moving to USB-C for a while already (without the regulation).

And USB-C cables haven't been one thing either.

The EU regulation is about 10 years too late. The things it is trying to do where mostly already happening (except for apple cables).

Last edited by njkayaker; 04-24-22 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 04-25-22, 05:40 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
I don't think my requirement for USB-C is odd. What is odd, that the bike industry is a laggard and still uses outdated standards. There is no modern electronics that still uses older USB. USB-C is THE standard. But I only can choose from what is offered.
Not sure which products you're looking at, but micro-B is till very much the predominant charging port among the cycling and non-cycling products I've seen, though some top-of-the-line headphones and such are beginning to adopt USBC ports. Frankly you're still a bit ahead of the curve in your expectations of USBC adoption in the device marketplace.

Someone mentioned Garmin Instinct. Some refurbished units cost $150 and they look like they do what I would want. Their manuals don't specifically say, but some pics look like it, they seem to use USB-C. Is that correct? What other wearables use USB-C and can be had for say under $200?

I saw some watches use some proprietary clamping cable. That seems to be a big step way backward since cables can and WILL fail and I really want to avoid having to bring different types of cables (I always have USB-C with me for the phone).
None that I'm aware of; all use some form of clamping or magnetic or something comes off and the device presents a USBA male, some use magnetic / induction such as Apple Watch. The clamp connections for my Garmin Forerunner watches never failed despite years of usage, so your expectation may be a bit pessimistic.

I'm really surprised manufacturers are not specific with the the type of charging cable. I looked through many manuals and none really say what cable they use, or just say "USB". And the pictures never show the type of plug the cables have.
Assume USBA for most of those cables since the world of charge points is remains predominantly USBA. Some devices (Apple Watch) have USBC cables available. For the others just plug an adapter on the end of the cable and you're good. Also, be aware that inductive charging is not necessarily Qi compatible. I know Apple Watch is not, and my understanding is Samsung Gear watches also are not (last I checked).

the watches I saw say they last 24 days, but with GPS use only a few hours. So that makes them less suitable for ME since the GPS is main function for me for speed.
Active GPS positioning for an activity is power hungry.
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Old 04-25-22, 06:27 PM
  #64  
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What about a cheap wired unit with replaceable batteries. Are those still made. Something that's sold in the bike section at Walmart/Target for $19.95.
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Old 04-30-22, 11:03 PM
  #65  
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Is it possible to charge the hammerhead karoo 2 during a ride ? Thats a requirement for me.
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Old 04-30-22, 11:55 PM
  #66  
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Pretty much all bike computers can be charged off a regular external battery whilst riding and the Karoo being basically an Android phone customized as a bike computer will be able to.
And not sure why the post about the Cyplus M2 was ignored - it's $46 and has Usb C so it ticks all boxes.
Also the Bryton S500 is usb C (but not cheap)

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Old 05-01-22, 07:12 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Northwestrider View Post
Is it possible to charge the hammerhead karoo 2 during a ride ? Thats a requirement for me.
Yes.

As well, depending on how the mount used fits, you might need to use a 90 deg. connector on the cable. Amazon usually has these.
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Old 05-01-22, 09:38 AM
  #68  
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I'm not 100% sure if all computers will function while plugged into a battery bank, but it might not be healthy for the computer if the temps are winter like conditions.
I've been meaning to try slaving the wahoo elemnt with a battery bank while it's in use, but I just haven't had the need to do it yet. Also, it's been too cold.
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