tempocyclist

If I owned a Hammerhead computer and Di2 that's exactly what I would do (assuming they're not forced automatically).

That said, I do have a Garmin computer and Di2, but I've never tried to set up any of the Di2 metrics on screen. I should really have a play around.

seypat

Not a good look for the industry in general. Maybe Shimano is attempting to align themselves with Specialized.

Or maybe another fitness tech company. How big is Wahoo? Or Polar for instance? Maybe the Shimano portfolio is about to get larger.

Iride01 

Could be anything. Maybe Shimano doesn't feel their agreements with Hammerhead for name use of Di2 and such cover all the implications SRAM brings to the party. All of the above might be in play too.

Perhaps at a later date they'll iron everything out in a new agreement and the world will be at peace again. <grin>

Polaris OBark

I did my one and only firmware upgrade to Di2 in anticipation of doing this, but I lost interest when I realized it would be a net drain on the battery (oh, the irony) and I would have to buy some extra parts. I've never missed not having this. I shift by feel, anyway.

Polaris OBark

I just looked at DC Ray Maker's video review of this:

JohnJ80

Yep. It's a stupid move on Shimano's part. Probably some junior product manager that's a little over caffeinated. This *might* have made sense a number of years ago when Shimano had a clear advantage, but it's pretty even now especially in the electronic shifting market where, arguably, SRAM might even have a significant advantage with their wireless eTap. You can pull these types of shenanigans when you're the dominant market leader but not when you're in a pitched battle for tech dominance.

I'd say the main loss are your second and third bullets with the shifter displays. The buttons, while they might be nice, are only found on the DA shifters and not on the Ultegra ones. I'd have to believe that the Ui2 drivetrain far outnumbers the Di2 DA ones. I have a Karoo (which I really like) and fortunately I replaced all my Di2 with eTap a few years ago. That said, Hammerhead supported Di2 before eTap when they introduced the electronic shifting support and it wasn't a huge deal but nice to have those features when they showed up for eTap.

I'd have to say that I like the Karoo far better as a bike computer over Garmin than I value the things that are being lost. So if I had to pick, knowing what I know now, I'd still go the same route. But, if I were trying to do a paper evaluation before buying a bike computer, this might give me pause. But I think more importantly, if I were making a bike purchase, this would more heavily influence my choice of drivetrain and make me much less likely to buy something with a Shimano drivetrain.

Ray Maker (DCRainmaker) ripped Shimano within minutes of the announcement coming out. He pretty much said that he'd not look at a Di2 bike because he didn't think Shimano could be trusted for long term support based on this. That's about as strong of a condemnation as I've heard him put out on almost anything. Especially noteworthy is because it's after one of the giants in the bike business. But, he's right - it's a dick move and really isn't in Shimano's long term interest. I've been a Shimano fanboy for decades and this really gives me pause.

Hopefully that over-caffeinated product manager has some adult supervision straighten this out. Not a good move.

surak

Wrong. Last two generation Ultegra Di2 shifters have the hidden hood buttons.

JohnJ80

I wasn't aware of that - all happened after I jettisoned Ultegra Di2. Thanks.

Either way, probably an issue for some (undoubtedly) but almost certainly not for most Karoo users. The most significant loss still remains the shifting fields as I had said before. I follow this closely on the Karoo forums and the whole button issue is virtually never mentioned.

Seattle Forrest

I heard a rumour this was a lawyer or investor or something putting a foot down, saying Shimano can't share private information about how their electronic drivetrain works with a company (owned by another company) that makes electronic drivetrains. I have no way to know if this is true, and it seems a little goofy since SRAM is shipping them, they're not trying to figure out how to make one and eager to steal the secret.

If true, that's not a minor licensing issue that would be solved by more money.

Seattle Forrest

Personally, I'm disappointed that Shimano is being a bad citizen. But I've been happy with all of my Shimano bikes. If I was somehow forced to only ride a SRAM bike, I would just take up running instead.

I think this will be a minor blip that people (except KDi2 uses) will forget in a month. People don't choose their drive train to fit their computer.

AlgarveCycling

It's a shame Shimano have taken this stance, I fully agree with DC Rainmaker. Personally however, it makes zero difference to me - I don't use those functions; I don't need my computer to tell me what gear I am in, for example, so my Shimano-equipped bike isn't going to suffer and while my SRAM-equipped bike will still have those functions, I don't care. I have never checked to see the battery levels either, I simply charge them regularly.

On the subject of updates though, they aren't all about corrections to fix things that have come to light with general public use. HH update 2x a month with functionality upgrades that make it better each time. When the HH2 was launched, it was a nice unit as it was, I preferred it to my Garmin 530. It was comparable to its competition at its price-point immediately. Since then, it has had many firmware updates - thanks in part to it being Android based - that have improved the device immensely.

For example, HH have released the latest update today, and, besides the expected DI2 removal, it adds this, among a few other things for crits etc :

• Auto-Lap Pins can be placed whenever you press the lap button, as well as at the start of recording. A new lap will be marked whenever you ride through those points again in the same ride.
• Unique to Karoo, Auto-Lap Pins that are placed while moving will only trigger if you ride through them in the same direction, preventing incorrect laps being marked if the course doubles back on itself.

I've never been interested in software updates until relatively recently thanks to two products I own - the HH2 and its twice monthly upgrades (they are upgrades) and my Canon R5 camera where Canon have released some great updates to improve AF.

JohnJ80

Largely agree that people don't pick their drivetrain because of the computer. This move on Shimano's part though does give me serious pause if this is their new corporate strategy that they will not support anyone with competitive products. I'm betting that it is because Shimano has typically been pretty benign as a competitor instead choosing to compete on features and quality. If this is where they are going now, then I'd expect to see shortly that they will cut off support for Garmin, Wahoo, and Stages for starters. All have competing products too. The question, I suppose, is going to be how far will they take this and where do they draw the line. They haven't said and until they do, I'd also agree with Ray Maker and Shane Miller that Shimano is a risky choice at present.

I was a Shimano fanboy for decades. I wound up with eTap bikes because I converted an older mech bike to electronic shifting and eTap was far and away the cleaner choice for that (no need to run wires in a frame not set up for it). I was pretty surprised how well it worked and how much I liked it that I converted my Ultegra Di2 bike over to eTap when I got a great deal on a groupset. Anyhow, that all surprised me greatly and I have to say I've been pretty happy with it.

Yep. I'm solidly in the "this is Shimano's fault" camp on this too. At this point until we get more clarity, I don't trust them. The whole bike component industry seems to be working hard to withdraw from standards and come up with proprietary pieces to capture more business. Integrated stems/bars, proprietary seat posts, bottom brackets, etc... seems like this could be part of that. Shimano did just buy Pioneer power meters a couple of years ago which to me indicates that they are pretty serious with owning that and tying that to their cranks for incremental sales.

For once though, I managed to find my way to not get whacked by these industry moves. Usually, I'm the guy that finagles my way into the worst possible position for a consumer. Somehow, I managed to tiptoe between the raindrops on this one.