daniel58

perhaps a visit to the following below Led Light beam comparison light link(s) can shed some further illumination(enlightenment) on the Led Lightset engine comparison subject matter:

https://www.mtbr.com/beamcomparisoncrx.aspx (check out the rollover comparison feature)

https://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/

There one can find an assortment of P7 based lightset engines for further comparison and evaluation with ones own "naked" eyes.

Yes, also please reference the website article on mtbr.com titled also as:

Bike Lights Shootout Light Meter Measurements

and you may also be interested in the related article on mtbr.com titled;

2010 Mtbr Bike Lights Shootout

and you may also be interested in the related article on mtbr.com titled;

LED Bike Lights Shootout3

operator

The dinotte 200L is $119 withOUT batteries or a charger. The magichsine is $85 with BOTH!

P.S Is anyone have trouble contact geoman? He doesn't seemto respond to his emails anymore.

dynodonn

What I would like to see is a MS version of a tail light, since most inexpensive tail lights that I've tried were bright but too focused or had a wide pattern but underpowered.

daniel58

usually the method of quickest response;

via geoman is affected by going directly to the geomangear.com and

leaving an instant message that also requests your internet mail address.

If its on a business day the response is usually same day.

ItsJustMe

Geoman has said multiple times for a couple of months that he's working with MS on this very thing.

daniel58

Indeed the Magichine is a radically brighter P7 based Led Lightset Engine that is even brighter than two dinotte 200L's combined(see referencing links posted #651);

with a included decidedly superior 4.4aH external rechargeable lithium ion battery;

with a included AC rechargeable lithium ion battery recharger:

Simply put, one gets the light output of at least two dinotte 200L's, twice the battery run times using an included superior lithium-ion battery, fast recharging with an included AC lithium ion recharger.

$119(dinotte #1) + $119(dinotte #2) + $8(4AA rechargeable nimh batteries #1) + $8(4AA rechargeable nimh batteries #2) equals $254 not bad to get the Magicshine Led Lightset engine for only $85 instead which represents a

These "massive savings" are "simply to large to ignore", based of course on calculated savings of $254 - $85 equals $169 ;

$169, that is enough in accrued savings to; if one needed to or wanted to purchase two additional Magicshine Led Lightset($85 x 2 = $170) to get the equivalent of four more additional Dinotte 200L Led Lightset.

Now those are some pretty interesting and highly "illuminating" options indeed, right?

RapidRobert

So three Magicshine headlights! With that many lumens pointing in three independant directions on the handlebars, there's no reason to mount a light on a helmet.

nwmtnbkr

Actually, if you simply order a second lighthead and Y-cable the cost is $140.97, plus shipping. (I ordered a second lighthead from thesingeltrackstore.com because Geoman seems to be having problems getting the single lightheads right now. The singletrackstore.com charges a flat shipping rate of $5.95 for USPS priority mail for US orders, which is considerably less than I paid for shipping from Geoman. They also shipped it immediately; I received it in 2 days.)

ItsJustMe

FYI, "quantum leap" is the absolute smallest possible improvement. It's a complete fallacy to use it to mean a big change, it's actually the smallest possible change.

daniel58

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Indeed, it seems Geoman is having trouble getting even Magicshine lithium ion batteries.

No matter though, I have found allbatteries online store has 8.8ah rechargeable lithium ion batteries for $24.13, which represents a doubling of amp-hours lithium-ion capacity run times; while at the same time saving an additional:

$38.00 minus $24.13 equals a savings of $13.87 which are some tasty, interesting and highly "illuminating" savings options indeed, right?
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No more worries about getting that spare or second rechargeable lithium ion battery pack as its only $2.74 per amp/hour to get extra add on and spare rechargeable lithium-ion rechargeable batteries.

$24.13 divided by 8.8aH equals $2.74 per amp/hour for an 8.8aH capacity 7.4VDC lithium ion battery "not to bad pricing" or

7.4VDC times 8.8aH equals 65watt-hours

$24.13 divided by 65watt-hours equals 37cents per watt hour
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when compared to Kodak 2500mah "AA" NiMh batteries

$9.94 divided by 4 equals $2.49 "AA" apiece

$2.49 divided 2.5aH equals $1.00per amp/hour for an 2.5aH capacity 1.2VDC NiMh battery "walmart pricing" or

1.2VDC times 2.5aH equals 3watt-hours

$2.49 divided by 3watt-hours equals 83cents per watt hour

Holy watt-hour!, a 7.4VDC/8.8aH Lithium Ion battery at allbattery online shop for $24.13 is only 37cents per watt/hour versus

1.2VDC/2.5aH Nickel Metal Hydride "Kodak AA" battery at Walmart shop for $2.49 is only 83cents per watt hour.

What does this actually mean to the rechargeable battery consuming user? Bottom Line Lithium Ion battery chemistry can be had "now" for less cost than NiMh battery chemistry(at least on a watt/hour basis).

The above calculations clearly show that one can obtain all of the benefits of Lithium Ion rechargeable battery chemistry for less initial cost, has virtually no battery self discharge(unlike the NiMh self discharge battery problems) and also has the added advantages of both high current draw capability/high cycle life rechargeable battery capabilities over NiMh based rechargeable battery chemistry.

One can get Lithium Ion rechargeable battery chemistry at a cost of only 37cents per watt/hour versus 83cents per watt hour for NiMh rechargeable battery chemistry.
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Since its such an unbeatable rock bottom pricing for a rechargeable lithium ion battery pack pricewise, I will probably be picking up two spare/extra lithium ion rechargeable battery packs for hiking/cycling or even flashlight/searchlight Magicshine Led Lightset Engine applications.

Thankfully, I won't be needing my now obsolete Led based Maglite anymore as it does not use rechargeable batteries and is only 3watts of Led light output versus 10watt of Led light output using the Magichine Lightset;

this Magicshine Led Lightset Engine delivers magnitudes of order; a much brighter combination ten watt spotlight/floodlight beam intensity in such a surprisingly small/compact profile footprint with user friendly ergonomics, to boot.

I can definitively say that the Magicshine Led Lightset supplies an overall vastly superior quality light beam along with the very desireable fully rechargeable capability to boot; these are some of the most desireable characteristics for "ten watt" spotlight/floodlight/headlight/flashlight potential light illumination tool applications.

kudude

depends on what your quanta is.

socalrider

dapedaler on ebay has the ms light + all the accessories in stock right now..

https://shop.ebay.com/dapedaler/m.htm...&_trksid=p4340

ItsJustMe

After probably 25 to 35 uses, my runtime is down to right around 2 hours from 3:10. Anyone else seeing reduced runtimes?

I lost my light unexpectedly this morning (just charged it over the weekend, I should have been able to make it in this morning with plenty of time to spare on the battery). Just topped it off and ran a full run-down test, I only got 2 hours.

I've ordered new decent quality (well reviewed anyway) 18650 cells from DealExtreme for $20. They should get here in a couple of weeks. I'll just keep this set topped off. If it gets any worse, I'll replace the cells in this pack with better ones. I really should get a backup pack too, but I think I'll build my own; $40 for four 18650 cells and the protection chip is too steep for me when I can buy the for < $20 for parts.

daniel58

Holy Engergizer batteries you have already lost 1/3 capacity? How many times have they been recharged so far?

How deeply has the li-ion battery pack been discharged between recharges? 50% DOD, 75% DOD, 85% DOD, 90% DOD, 95% DOD, 100 % DOD?

One of the "key things" with Li-Ion batteries is to discharge them no more than about "half of their total capacity", that way they will last out about "250 to 350 recharge cycles";

well at least that is what they say over at batteryuniversity about prolonging li-ion batteries

Also, took a page out of batteryuniversity play book and "doubled" the amp hour capacity of nominal battery from "4.4aH to 8.8aH"; that way one has "doubled" the battery run time while at the same time ensuring the battery is "somewhat unlikely" to fall below "50% charge levels"; thus enabling one the likelihood of actually achieving the 250-350 cycle times recharge capability on ones lithium ion battery pack.

Beauty is it only costs $24.13 to get 8.8aH Li-Ion battery pack from allbattery.com; sorry Geoman you lost out on that bid purchase as you did not even have any li-ion batteries in stock whatsoever(what's up with that "G" man?).

nwmtnbkr

LiION batteries do like like deep discharges. Those who recharge less frequently may be prematurely killing their battery's capacity. https://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Now that commercial bike light manufacturers are starting to pump out upgrades with the new Cree XP-G, the MS and older generation lights it emulates (like the Lupine Wilma pre-Cree XP-G) will look pretty weak. There are pictures posted in some German forums showing the upgrade and it's pretty incredible. https://www.lupine.de/phpBB3/viewtopi...=de&f=8&t=2432
The Chinese like to make cheep knockoff and that's part of the reason that the MS has the P7. Chinese manufacturers will be hard pressed to match the output of the Cree XP-G trying to use other, cheaper LEDs.

Not the Slowest

I haven't seen any drop off yet, but do not think I have come near the 20 night rides yet. I have been able to do 2 trips per charge and have been running most of my ride on SOSO mode. I'll keep you posted, but did expect the problem you are having but not THIS Quickly. Can you take some images on your buildup when done?

Cyclist0383

Considering the massive price difference it's really a mute point.

dougmc

Yes, if you make the cycles smaller, you'll get more of them.
Well, yes, you've now got double the batteries, so they should be able to provide double the amount of runtime before running out, and double the amount of total runtime before their performance has degraded to a certain amount. I'm not sure that's really an improvement -- OK, you get 500 cycles instead of 250 -- but you paid twice as much for the pack, and it weighs twice as much to boot.

In any event, LiPo/LiIon batteries degrade even when not being used -- and I'm not referring to the self discharge rate (which is low, but not zero.) They don't last more than a few years even if they're not used (and even if they're only charged back to 60% every three months.)

Also, four new 18650 cells from Deal Extreme (complete with the protective circuits in each) will set you back about $16.50, and it's not hard to solder a new pack up. If each pack will give you 450 hours (total, after many charges) of full brightness use before they degrade to say 70% of their original capacity (and then you discard/recycle it), that's only 3.7 cents/hour -- and it gets a lot cheaper if you use the lower power modes. That's not too bad, just make new packs as needed.

socalrider

I have had good luck building packs with tenergy cells from Battery junction, a little more than DE, but quality and mah rating is better.. I figure by the time my MS battery pack dies off, 3000+mah cells will be available for building..

Cycle Performance 80% of initial capacity at 300 cycles..

https://www.batteryjunction.com/tener...-tab-2600.html

nwmtnbkr

For the average commuter, I think you're right but the hardcore trail riders are already ordering the new Lupines after seeing the beam shots. However, my point is the Chinese manufacturers, who like to make cheap knockoffs of higher-end products, will be hard pressed to imitate the lumens output of the new upgraded XP-G lights with the cheap LEDs that they use. They'd have to have a hell-of-a-lot of P7s in a lighthead to get the lumens the new commercial bike lights with Cree XP-Gs put out.

ItsJustMe

It can't talk? It may even be a moot point.

I have so far completely discharged my packs only about 5 times. I usually put them on the charger every 2 days, my commute is 40 minutes or so, so that's only about 50% drained. I think the pack has cycled 100% 5 or 6 times, and 50% maybe 15 times.

If it were cut in half I'd suspect that a wire was broken in the pack and two of the 4 cells weren't working, but it was 2 hours down from 3.

I may open the pack up and just make sure it didn't get wet or something.

socalrider

It is often that the chinese manufacturers are ahead of the curve in getting new lights out.. Lupine is way out of most people's price range, you are not going to see anyone going out and spending 600.00 -1100.00 for a lighting system unless they have a specific need like 24 hour racers..

I have already seen a few of the modders using the new Phlatlight leds and I am sure something will be out for the bike specific market in the next 6 months.. This single led puts out 1500+ lumens and even if it is sold at 2x the price of the MS light, there will be a market for them..

daniel58

swapping out the bad batteries and/or bad wiring may be just the ticket; try the folks over at batteryspace for high quality lithium ion batteries.

TwoHeadsBrewing

+1, I can't believe anyone would put that much money into a bike light. I know the amount of light that the MagicShine puts out was unattainable a few years ago for under $200, but spending $600 on a light is just too much. And you can buy a pretty decent bike, or very nice upgrades for $1,000. I'm interested to see what the MagicShine and these other cheap P7 flashlights will do to the prices of the bike light manufacturers like L&M, NiteRider, etc.

On another note, I'd really like MagicShine to come out with a smaller light specifically made for the helmet. The other bike light manufacturers have great helmet lights that are a bit lighter and smaller. I'd buy a helmet light by MS in an instant. I'm thinking a 400 lumen P7 with a 2-cell 18650 battery pack, with helmet mount included. I love the MS, but it's a bit bulky to put up on my head. I'd like something smaller, like the MiNewt USB, or L&M Stella 200L.

daniel58

Yes, indeed that is right; one is re-sizing the nominal battery application to two times the nominal normal specifications in order to take care of any potential concerns about battery run times "in the field". Of course there is the accompanying ancillary simultaneous and ancillary synergistic benefit of prolonging and protecting the battery cycle life that can also be achieved at the same time.

Yes, all one is doing is merely adding additional lithium ion battery reserve capacity; naturally of course.

For some reason on allbattery online store right now, one can take advantage of an incredible holiday price break in the form of a:

7.4VDC / 8.8aH lithium ion battery for a value price of $24.13 or one can think of getting two 4.4aH lithium ion batteries for $12.06 times two $24.13, which is a pretty decent price indeed.

Previously purchased 7.4VDC / 8.8 aH Lithium Ion battery was $32 which represents an additional further 25% off of the current $24.13 pricing deal.

Geomangear apparently is out of any lithium ion batteries for its Magicshine Led Lightset, so I summarily expanded my search for an even better Lithium Ion rechargeable battery deal(geomangear's pricing is three times more expensive than allbattery online store offering)

The resulting "price break and deal" was simply to good to pass up, at least compared to Geomangear even when he did have the 7.4VDC/ 4.4aH lithium ion batteries ($38.00) in stock.

Yes, that is true the folks over at batteryuniversity call it lithium ion battery "aging" and the degradation is not only temperature sensitive and as high as 10% annually atypically which basically renders the lithium ion battery ineffective after about three years.