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Has anyone tried the Magicshine 900 lumen?

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Has anyone tried the Magicshine 900 lumen?

Old 12-02-09, 12:39 AM
  #676  
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Originally Posted by nwmtnbkr
For the average commuter, I think you're right but the hardcore trail riders are already ordering the new Lupines after seeing the beam shots. However, my point is the Chinese manufacturers, who like to make cheap knockoffs of higher-end products, will be hard pressed to imitate the lumens output of the new upgraded XP-G lights with the cheap LEDs that they use. They'd have to have a hell-of-a-lot of P7s in a lighthead to get the lumens the new commercial bike lights with Cree XP-Gs put out.
Considering that the P7 was an expensive LED 18 months ago, and it does actually provide enough light for road riding (I can't comment on trails as I'm not a trail rider), I'd say that the Chinese manufactures will indeed upgrade their lights with newer LEDs as they enter the market in larger production quantities.

The P7 and MC-E aren't really poor quality LEDs, and I don't understand why you would say that.
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Old 12-02-09, 12:41 AM
  #677  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
It can't talk? It may even be a moot point.
Thanks, Professor Pedantic.
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Old 12-02-09, 12:54 AM
  #678  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
It can't talk? It may even be a moot point.

I have so far completely discharged my packs only about 5 times. I usually put them on the charger every 2 days, my commute is 40 minutes or so, so that's only about 50% drained. I think the pack has cycled 100% 5 or 6 times, and 50% maybe 15 times.

If it were cut in half I'd suspect that a wire was broken in the pack and two of the 4 cells weren't working, but it was 2 hours down from 3.

I may open the pack up and just make sure it didn't get wet or something.
The battery pack isn't too flash. The cells aren't individually charged and will go out of balance. Thats likely what you're seeing.
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Old 12-02-09, 03:17 AM
  #679  
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Originally Posted by znomit
The battery pack isn't too flash. The cells aren't individually charged and will go out of balance. Thats likely what you're seeing.
probably one or more lithium ion 186550 cell(s) are bad as Li-Ion batteries are sometimes known to be notorius for issues such as; accelerated "copper shunting" and "cladding/plating issues" and "aging" issues.

replacing the one or more suspected bad lithium ion 186550 cells usually results in restoration of lithium ion battery pack; though if one had access to a "lithium ion battery pack balancing charger" that might be worth a try first.

now if one got the Magicshine Lightset from Geomangear drop him an instant message request for reply feedback and see if he is willing to exchange the "suspect bad lithium ion battery" with a "good replacement lithium ion battery pack" as he has been known to do that on occasion on a "case by case" basis.

also when one was upgrading the bad suspect lithium ion batteries with good replacement lithium ion batteries, one could always use that opportunity to simultaneously upgrade from 4 cell(2s2p config) to 8 cell(2s4p config); for a 8.8aH enhanced capacity lithium ion battery pack instead of the standard 4.4aH lithium ion battery pack configuration.

Last edited by daniel58; 12-02-09 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 12-02-09, 08:40 AM
  #680  
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Originally Posted by nayr497
- So it doesn't come with a securing strap?
- Are you supposed to use the battery pack bag itself to wrap around TT/stem?
That's correct, it comes with a BUILT IN securing strap. It works well. Ignore the two plastic rings unless you want to put something like a zip tie through them for extra security.

Originally Posted by nayr497
- I know some of you have taped the battery pack cell to waterproof it. Can you give me some instructions on how to do this?
Uh, look at the pack, put tape where there are cracks where it looks like water might get in. Use waterproof tape.

As for the routing of the wire, it actually works better coming out the front. It keeps the wire from getting in the way as you reach for things on the dash, and it adds strain relief because it wraps around the bar if you put the battery near the back.

The squeeze on the O ring is perfect. It takes a bit to get it in, and that means it won't fall off.

After having gotten used to these things, I think they're exactly right as they are.
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Old 12-02-09, 08:42 AM
  #681  
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Show me the lumens

Originally Posted by RapidRobert

Same with these LED headlights. The energy density goes up FAST when that much light is emitted by such a small source. That light will hurt to look at it, even from a distance. Don't take light for granted. My recommendation is for the future (beginning now), as the power of very small and cheap LEDs is skyrocketing. 150 lumens on your head might not be a problem, but 1500 lumens will be! There's good reason it's against the law to not dim your brights for oncomming traffic.
Yes ... but the don't. And I be willing to bet the annual ticketing rate for these violations are next to nothing. I cyclist on a bike is at an inherent disadvantage. They need the ability to "paint" a car with direct lite to make their presence known. Especially to the jackholes who turn their brights on in your face.

I would recommend shaped beams like the SECA. Ones that make a tailored beam shape that a cyclist will not want to re-aim. Helmet capacities is dictated by battery capacity as it's the modern desire to mount the battery directly to the helmet for ease of removal and replacement

I'm waiting eagerly for a tail light option from Magicshine. I want the child of a PB Superflash, Dinotte tailight hookup. It should be noticeable from 200ft in daylight and self contained. It should run on standard CR123 or AA lithium rechargeables that way if you run out of juice, you can just buy a battery to get you by. It should be removeable from a tilt mount that will attach to any bicycle tube using different sized o-rings. It should be in the $40-$60 price range.

I would like it by Christmas. But I'll settle for Q1 of next year.
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Old 12-02-09, 09:15 AM
  #682  
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Originally Posted by nwmtnbkr
LiION batteries do like like deep discharges. Those who recharge less frequently may be prematurely killing their battery's capacity. https://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Now that commercial bike light manufacturers are starting to pump out upgrades with the new Cree XP-G, the MS and older generation lights it emulates (like the Lupine Wilma pre-Cree XP-G) will look pretty weak. There are pictures posted in some German forums showing the upgrade and it's pretty incredible. https://www.lupine.de/phpBB3/viewtopi...=de&f=8&t=2432
The Chinese like to make cheep knockoff and that's part of the reason that the MS has the P7. Chinese manufacturers will be hard pressed to match the output of the Cree XP-G trying to use other, cheaper LEDs.
So basically, if the light lasts 2.5 hours. Plan your rides for 1.25 hours. Sometimes you'll go over, sometimes you'll go shorter. Every once in a while, you'll tap the battery.

Though note also that the shelf life of LION is highly affected by temperature. So for optimal longevity, you should be storing them in a refrigerator after riding. Then charging a day BEFORE riding.

Originally Posted by wikipedia.org
At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion laptop battery that is full most of the time at 25 C or 77 F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to a prolonged exposure to much higher temperatures, which will significantly shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 C (32 F), 20% at 25 C (77 F), and 35% at 40 C (104 F). When stored at 40%60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.
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Old 12-02-09, 11:32 AM
  #683  
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Originally Posted by nwmtnbkr
The Chinese like to make cheep knockoff and that's part of the reason that the MS has the P7. Chinese manufacturers will be hard pressed to match the output of the Cree XP-G trying to use other, cheaper LEDs.
They don't have to. For most of us, we've already hit "good enough". I don't need to start setting the shrubs by the side of the road on fire. In fact I could run on low power with the MS for the whole time I'm riding on pavement, and most people are riding on pavement most of the time.
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Old 12-02-09, 12:29 PM
  #684  
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I think there might be a "third party opportunity" here.
I'd be willing to pay someone to build me a longer life battery.

I have a big ride coming up in March and I expect to be out on the road more hours than the MagicShine battery will last.
I could buy a second battery from MagicShine, but I'd like even more to have a long life battery. I'm not about to try to make it myself. But I'd be willing to pay for plug-and-play solution. I'll bet I'm not alone.
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Old 12-02-09, 01:16 PM
  #685  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
I have so far completely discharged my packs only about 5 times. I usually put them on the charger every 2 days, my commute is 40 minutes or so, so that's only about 50% drained. I think the pack has cycled 100% 5 or 6 times, and 50% maybe 15 times.
It might be worth checking to see what the voltage is at the low power signal and then when it cuts off. If it is discharging too deeply, you could be permanently damaging the cells. If they read 5V at the low power signal you should probably turn it off rather than consider it on reserve. 5V would mean ABOUT 2.5V each which is at the extreme that a Li Ion should be discharged. Since there probably is not any cell matching going on, they might actually be 2.7 + 2.3 at which point one cell is being killed. I try not to discharge Li Ions below 2.7V to allow a margin for error and that a cheaper cell might be even more sensitive.

You wouldnt think that just 5 or 6 deep discharges would harm it, but they are pretty sensitive to voltage. Most of the pack PCB specs seem too aggressive in their limits so they can claim a longer runtime at the expense of cell service life.
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Old 12-02-09, 04:35 PM
  #686  
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Originally Posted by Plutonix
It might be worth checking to see what the voltage is at the low power signal and then when it cuts off.
The low power signal on my MS light is broken. The first time I used it, it came on a 3:08, and the light died at 3:10. Since then it's almost always showing low battery, even when the batteries are fresh off the charger.

I ran it totally dead (until the light shut off) three times for testing, once in the freezer, and then again a couple of days ago when on the road and I was surprised by it dying early. Apart from that I don't think I've let it run more than 60% dead.

Point taken though, it'd be good to see when the light cuts out.

I might build a better capacity gauge too; a small microcontroller and some LEDs could give me a proper percent charge remaining reading.
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Old 12-02-09, 05:53 PM
  #687  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
After probably 25 to 35 uses, my runtime is down to right around 2 hours from 3:10. Anyone else seeing reduced runtimes?
.........
I've ordered new decent quality (well reviewed anyway) 18650 cells from DealExtreme for $20. They should get here in a couple of weeks.
My MS did the same thing after only 5 weeks, about 15X/25 hrs usage IIRC. I got the red light after riding only 2 hrs in High mode, but when new it went 3 hrs (see my earlier comments around post #100). I naturally assumed it was the battery, specifically a bad 18650 cell.

I emailed Geoman for a replacement under warranty (90 days), and he sent a free replacement immediately without any hassle whatsoever.

Since then I've tried the new battery, but haven't actually taken it beyond the 2 hr ride time mark, so it's basically unevaluated for battery life.

I've ridden the original battery a few times since then as well. To my surprise, the battery intermittently will last only 2 hrs, or go the originally-measured 3 hrs at times! I recharge it overnight each time with green "complete charge" light showing the next day, so this left me a little puzzled. I checked the end voltage at 8.3-8.4v, so the battery is getting fully recharged, and I've eliminated the charger as a source of problem.

I started checking battery voltage at the "red light warning" after 2 hrs ride time. I've measured 7.5v twice, and 7.3v today, but I ran it a little past the red warning (so it would be higher V at red). So, I'm getting red light at ~2 hrs (most times), and ~7.4-7.5v. When the MS was new (Sept), I measured ~6.0v at red light, after >3 hrs burn time on high.

I now believe the fault lies in the voltage sensing/control circuit of the MS driver, NOT the battery. It should not give a red light at 7.5v (3.75v per 18650), since 18650s can be safely discharged to ~2.7v, and the MS originally seems to have been designed to shutdown around 6v/3v per cell. Although "early" red light doesn't damage anything, it does effectively shorten run time by 1/3.

Perhaps this is why MS changed drivers from the original 3-mode to the 5-mode flashlight-type driver currently in use.

I suspect you have the same problem, and like me misinterpreted it as a battery issue. Try measuring your battery voltage after 2 hrs when you get the early red light. I bet you'll measure around 7.5v.

Regarding building battery from cells - I've tried it before, it's a bear to solder std cells. It's hard to do without potentially heat-damaging the cell. They make cells with welded-on tabs just for this purpose, and the tabs do make a difference in ease of soldering and mitigating heat damage. However, I doubt they are as inexpensive as DX 18650s.
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Old 12-02-09, 05:55 PM
  #688  
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Well I wrote that before your last msg IJM.

Looks like we independently reached the same conclusion - bad driver.
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Old 12-02-09, 06:32 PM
  #689  
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Originally Posted by cccorlew
I think there might be a "third party opportunity" here.
I'd be willing to pay someone to build me a longer life battery.

I have a big ride coming up in March and I expect to be out on the road more hours than the MagicShine battery will last.
I could buy a second battery from MagicShine, but I'd like even more to have a long life battery. I'm not about to try to make it myself. But I'd be willing to pay for plug-and-play solution. I'll bet I'm not alone.
For some reason on allbattery online store right now, one can take advantage of an incredible holiday price break in the form of a:

7.4VDC / 8.8aH lithium ion battery for a value price of $24.13 or one can think of getting two 4.4aH lithium ion batteries for $12.06 times two $24.13, which is a pretty decent price indeed. This lithium ion battery does come with the DC connector.

Previously purchased 7.4VDC / 8.8 aH Lithium Ion battery was $32 which represents an additional further 25% off; $24.13 is the current pricing deal.

Geomangear apparently is out of any lithium ion batteries for its Magicshine Led Lightset, so I summarily expanded my search for an even better Lithium Ion rechargeable battery deal(geomangear's pricing is three times more expensive than allbattery current holiday online store offering)

The resulting "price break and deal" was simply to good to pass up, at least compared to Geomangear even when he did have the 7.4VDC/ 4.4aH lithium ion batteries ($38.00) in stock.

I will take two more lithium 7.4VDC/8.8aH Lithium Ion battery packs as I now have two Magicshine Led Lightsets.

One can never seem to have to much Lithium Ion battery pack run time; so each 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery pack if drained halfway will give 3 hours on the highest intensity setting. Two would be able to give a resulting total battery pack run time of 6 hours basically.

Now if you had two Magicshine Led Lightsets, then just get double the amount for a grand total of four Lithium Ion battery packs at $24.13 apiece. Basically under a hundred dollars for four Lithium Ion battery packs.

Remember one can have the brightest and most intense Bicycle Led Lightset but all that is pretty ineffective without an accompanying cost efficient Lithium Ion based rechargeable battery to drive ones Bicycle Lighting System; so generally one of the best cost efficient Lithium Ion battery subsystems one can get is one that is non-proprietary in design/origin, such as Magicshine.

Last edited by daniel58; 12-03-09 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 12-02-09, 08:35 PM
  #690  
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I ordered one of the Allbattery 8AH packs today. I wish they had some shipping method other than the horrendously bad FedEx ground, but I guess I can live with it.
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Old 12-02-09, 09:29 PM
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I got mine in the mail today. Holy cow it is bright! It's all set and ready to go for tomorrow morning's commute in what is sounding like a horrible rain wind event woohoo! Got my fenders; rain gear top and bottom; new kick-ass light, and I even put a motel shower cap n my helmet - hey it fits and it's clear!

I put the light battery in a water bottle in a free cage and put 3 plastic sandwich bags over the top with 2 rubber bands. The extension wire lead under my top tube to the light on the bar. I'm using the big band and some tape to keep it in place. I might switch to the smaller band - we'll see. After riding around our complex with it on high and aimed where i thought I would like it best I checked the situation out from a car drivers point of view. I decided to aim it lower and use the 2nd power setting. Maybe i would use the high power setting during the day. Anyway, it's a plan. Oh the extension wire plug seems real good and pops when it locks but I put some tape around it just for safety. I think the battery will be safe in the water bottle, safer than out in the elements. Now let's hope the head is water tight too. Geoman says it is but not to "dunk" it.
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Old 12-02-09, 09:42 PM
  #692  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
I ordered one of the Allbattery 8AH packs today. I wish they had some shipping method other than the horrendously bad FedEx ground, but I guess I can live with it.
Please let us know how the MS-supplied charger works with this pack. I am considering getting it also.
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Old 12-02-09, 09:50 PM
  #693  
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Originally Posted by Ziemas
Thanks, Professor Pedantic.
Only saw this post because it was at the top of the page but now I've even improved my vocabulary on the forums!

I'm an educated man but I had to look that one up.
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Old 12-02-09, 10:36 PM
  #694  
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Originally Posted by seeker333
Regarding building battery from cells - I've tried it before, it's a bear to solder std cells. It's hard to do without potentially heat-damaging the cell. They make cells with welded-on tabs just for this purpose, and the tabs do make a difference in ease of soldering and mitigating heat damage. However, I doubt they are as inexpensive as DX 18650s.
Soldering Li Ions is even harder than NiMH. There is a heat switch (PTC) just below the top cap that opens below the melting point of solder and doesnt reset. There is a similar switch in NiMH cells but they are below the insulator, I believe.

I'm convinced the smartest and most cost effective thing long term is to build dumb packs. Wire up the Li Ions in holders but remove the cells for charging in cell chargers. It allows you to be sure all the cells fully charge, you can SEE if one is weak and taking much longer than the others to charge and easily measure them before or after charging. Especially with the 2S4P pack and the widely varying DX quality, as the cells age you can replace them in sets (~$10) as needed rather than the whole pack (~$60) . (DO replace them in pairs and dont mix a new and old cell together in the pack.)
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Old 12-02-09, 10:51 PM
  #695  
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Just an interesting point:
"Moot point", oddly enough, has nothing to do with, nor is it any kind of point on a Moots bicycles.

Last edited by cccorlew; 12-03-09 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 12-02-09, 11:59 PM
  #696  
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Originally Posted by Plutonix
Soldering Li Ions is even harder than NiMH. There is a heat switch (PTC) just below the top cap that opens below the melting point of solder and doesnt reset. There is a similar switch in NiMH cells but they are below the insulator, I believe.
Interesting. In the case of the DE batteries, there is a circuit board directly below the positive connector for the protective circuit. No idea if it contains a heat switch, however -- I didn't see anything that looked like a fuse anyways. But you could ruin other things.

As for NiMH cells, I really don't think they generally have such a device. I've soldered quite a few of them and have never run into that sort of problem, even when I screwed things up nicely.

If you have a big soldering iron tip (stores lots of heat) and know what you're doing, you can solder a battery with only about three seconds of heat per end. The faster, the better. It might be fast enough, I don't know. I may have to try it with their 18650 batteries at some point.
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Old 12-03-09, 05:38 AM
  #697  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
They don't have to. For most of us, we've already hit "good enough". I don't need to start setting the shrubs by the side of the road on fire. In fact I could run on low power with the MS for the whole time I'm riding on pavement, and most people are riding on pavement most of the time.
I second that, I often times ride with the "medium" intensity setting when I am not going to fast; 10mph.

That is good enough most times and one still has the option to go to the "high intensity setting" if road conditions warrant of course.

Naturally in my case, I have two Magicshine Led Lightset's that I use concurrently together in tandem(with the two of them set to "medium" frequently); so your experience may vary or differ significantly from mine.
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Old 12-03-09, 06:01 AM
  #698  
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Originally Posted by soma5
Please let us know how the MS-supplied charger works with this pack. I am considering getting it also.
Just to be on the conservatively safe side, monitor the MS-supplied charger and make sure it runs cool.

There have been random reports of the MS-supplied charger overheating and potentially burning up.

What I have done as an additional safety precaution, is purchase from Walmart one of those AC timers that have the 15minute interval on/off settings all around the dial.

I just simply connect the MS-supplied charger to the AC timer and then to the AC outlet.

Then I just set the AC timer in an alternating pattern; to go "ON" for 15 minutes then "OFF" for 15 minutes, by setting the 15minute interval plastic tabs on/off settings.

In this way, I know in advance that the MS-supplied charger will always run cool as it never runs more than 15 minutes at a time(has 15 minute cool down cycle).

I have run it this way safely; with the "piece of mind" knowing that a fire is very unlikely to result.

The price for this "piece of mind" is one has to double the length of time to charge one's lithium ion battery pack but I can live with that inconvenience.

Furthermore, if there was a "catastrophic failure" in the lithium ion batteries printed circuit protection board or the poly switch this would help to prevent a "thermal run away condition" from developing that might lead to a fire.

Last edited by daniel58; 12-03-09 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 12-03-09, 07:28 AM
  #699  
rumrunn6
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1st run - light worked great. used the high setting without a 2nd thought due to the horrible rain/wind storm I just rode through. I kept the aiming where it was and will keep it there for a few rides to see if I (and the cagers) like it there. keeping the battery pack in the water bottle worked fine too. the plasttic bags and rubber bands aren't ideal or sharp looking but they work. the head never failed due to rain. I'm going to inspect it soon for interior condensation - that would be a bad sign.
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Old 12-03-09, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
1st run - light worked great. used the high setting without a 2nd thought due to the horrible rain/wind storm I just rode through. I kept the aiming where it was and will keep it there for a few rides to see if I (and the cagers) like it there. keeping the battery pack in the water bottle worked fine too. the plasttic bags and rubber bands aren't ideal or sharp looking but they work. the head never failed due to rain. I'm going to inspect it soon for interior condensation - that would be a bad sign.
thanks for your "in the field posting findings"; I have ridden in light rain with the Magicshine but not a drenching downpour so far.

I can basically aim the Magicshine Led Lightset where it is needed also as well but I also have the additional capability in the aiming of both the primary Magicshine Led Lightset as well as the aiming of a secondary Magicshine Led Lightset in whatever directions may be needed or wanted.

This allows one to add the capability of increasing the horizontal and/or vertical scanning field area that can be illuminated at one time.

Last edited by daniel58; 12-03-09 at 08:30 AM.
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