Stickney

Haha, I just jumped on here to report how much I like my GeoMan MS that I purchased last month. I guess, I will refrain from shilling.

Not the Slowest

What are the sepcs on the Magicshine battery? I thinkits 7.2A 5000mA or so? . A few people on the board purchased a great bargain from Battery??Something last year.

Would a 8 AA holder get me close to run time? or 2 4's and a switch over?

tarwheel 

I'm confident that GeoMan will make good on any battery problems. I've owned a Magicshine since September 2009. I didn't use my light over the summer, and noticed that was intermittently shutting off when I started using it again in late August. I contacted Geoman, and they sold me a brand new light unit and battery for 1/2 price, which I considered a fair deal since the light was long out of warranty.

The new light works great and has more settings and a shorter cord than the old one, which I prefer. However, the new battery won't hold a charge more than about 1.5 hours, compared to about 5 hours with the old battery. I contacted Geoman about this, and they informed me that they were having problems with their new batteries. They told me they would send me a new battery when the next shipment arrives, presumably ones that work properly. That is fine with me as I can continue to use my old battery from my original light during the interim.

Richard Cranium

Batteries are in the "weird area" for consumer use. Since they are not idiot proof - legal issues come up.

Using AAs isn't "idiot proof" either. Using polarity proof connectors is a good idea. And you'll get unexpected results if all your cells aren't balanced.

I did an "all night double century" using a 4xAA pack and running the light on low. I was using cheap Alkaline and just threw them away after 90 minutes.

My suggestions, get the 6xAA carriers without the 9V battery snap connectors and use idiot proof connectors. 9V snap on connectors/terminals are prone to accidents and short circuits.

Pippin

GeoMan is great for standing behind what they sell, however with MagicShine you get what you pay for. They borrow another's design, use second rate components (main reason actual output is far from the claimed---short lived batteries) and poor workmanship. One unit is great, another crap.

No thanks. Not going to support that business model.

InTheRain

You're getting 43 minutes more than I get with my battery.

no motor?

That sounds like what's happening with mine. Run time is down to about an hour, maybe 1.5 hours now.

socalrider

I have a first edition MS light and still get 2.5 hours on high mode, but I have to charge it pre-ride to get optimal performance.. If I don't charge pre-ride, I get less than 2 hours..

jamesdak 

Seems like the reported results here are both good and bad. But there are plenty of other posts about these lights where the overwhelming response is positive. Ok course like anything most that don't have a problem with a product don't post about it on the internet. I bought mine knowing that there were already a few people reporting battery issues and knowing that the output was closer to 500 lumens. But in my mind I still could not buy anything near that performance level at that price. I also know that I am perfectly capable of sourcing and/or repairing batteries or chargers if ever needed. So as long as the light works as I believe it does and holds up all will be fine in my book. I could make a lot of repairs and still be under the total price a comparible product would have cost me. Now to just get that puppy in so I can get off the trainer and back outside.

Not the Slowest

I get 2 hours on SOS mode

tuxbailey

Just received my lights today. I woonder if I got a lemon. What is a good test to see if the batteyr is okay? Just let run and see how long it last in high mode??

mwatkins

I wonder how many MS / DX P7 bike light users have the knowledge and even basic test equipment necessary to self-certify their systems or even properly diagnose issues.

Even in this thread alone there is some evidence of battery pack failure - users reporting that they only get max output if they charge up immediately before a ride suggests that some of the cells in those battery packs are suffering from abnormally high self-discharge rates. A lithium ion cell in good shape should not experience abnormally high self-discharge -- so that's a red flag, not just a mere inconvenience. Uncharacteristically poor runtime reported by others may be again evidence of a self-discharge or high cell impedance issue, or may be an indicator that a cell imbalance problem is present or is worsening. Another red flag.

Many users of rechargeable products will just keep using the products until the charge time or run time becomes untenable. At that point they may have further exacerbated an already serious situation and moved over into dangerous territory without even realizing it.

Battery failure with lithium-ion cells ranges from just not working well as the cell(s) become unstable to abrupt failure including venting toxic fumes, to venting toxic fumes and flames. Rapid disassembly is a polite way of saying that in a pressure vessel (like a sealed flashlight) they can (and have) even cause an explosion. The good news is the DX/MS packs are not pressure sealed. One bad cell on fire will typically set the rest off due to thermal runaway. A 4 cell pack has enough stored energy in it to set most combustibles - your table, chairs, couch beside the charger, work bench - on fire fairly easily.

This is not a comforting thought to have as you leave your MS battery pack on charge after a nights ride and tuck yourself in to sleep. I wonder how many MS users leave their packs on charge, unattended? Or leave them plugged in for extended periods of time? Probably quite a few. Do they know if their cells were new or harvested? Made by a reputable maker? Do they know for sure that the charger terminates properly? That it charges using a safe algorithm?

I would not make assumptions about products that get sold via DX, given how many cheap and demonstrably unsafe li-ion chargers have been produced and sold via DX and other such sales venues. Without knowing the specifics of what value add GeoManGear adds, I won't make assumptions about their version of the product either.

You do get what you pay for and in this case people are getting a unit of unknown heritage with unknown components sourced from unknown locations charged by a circuit(s) (that may change without any notice) which, to my knowledge, hasn't been verified by independent experts as being safe to use. I'm not questioning GeoManGear's integrity at all - in fact they seem to be doing what they can to stamp out issues. +1 for GeoManGear for halting sales.

I hope those who have existing units will at the very least commit to not charging their packs unattended.

socalrider

If you decide to do this, make sure you put a fan in front of light to keep the head cool..

tuxbailey

Well I sent couple emails to them on the website and I got two generic reply from the "QA" team for more info; I can't reply since it has my email as the source address. Never mind that I already provided the details in my original email.

hopperja

I have a MS900 I bought from Geoman in Dec. 09. I've used it regularly (at least 2x/week) since then, charging it once per week. Yes, the battery is showing some wear - it doesn't hold the charge it used to. However, at the price, it has been well worth it. I would highly recommend it to anyone. I have never had a single problem with it. It lights and stays lit until I turn it off. That's more than I can say for a Nite Rider I have.

Geoman has shown excellent customer service, even helping those who bought the light from another distributor. When Geoman makes them available again, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one from him.

Cyclist0383

Who did you write to and where did you buy your light?

JimBeans83

Is it really that big of an issue? Buy 4 18650 cells and rebuild the battery pack for $20.

Even "quality" cell phone or other manufacturers often give only a 6 month warranty on the battery.

And even quality other battery manufacturers have problems with fires, overheating, dead batteries, etc.

It doesn't seem like the real reported issues with this product is significantly different than other battery powered products?

no motor?

I got the same emails, and replied to the original customer service address last night. I'll let you know what happens.

jamesdak 

But I did a quick google search and found plenty of cheap battery replacement options available for well under $40. That still makes the magicshine one heck of a deal since everyone seems to agree that the light itself is bright and very durable. So even if you buy the magicshine and a replacement battery setup right off your still at around $150. Name me another at least 500 lumen bike light for that kind of money.

All that said, users should be cautious about the stock batteries. As an old military electronics tech I know the danger from a vented lithium battery. I've actually seen it happen on more than one occasion. You do not want to be exposed to that gas at all.

colleen c

For me it is no big deal. I'm pretty much a handyman (err..handywomen) myself. That's just me though, my partner is not so handy and if she run a MS, she will be like most other in the catagory of plug and play with little thoughts of safety prevention. She will leave a charger plug in and leave the house forgetting to unplug. A person like her I do not expect to be a battery builder. Even if she has to buy a pre-made battery pack, it can be a challenge for her as she is not a DIY.

The original concept of buying a MS light for me had two strong points. First, the introduction of Lumens for less money without the need to DIY was the connection which bridge the gap between paying lots of money for bike specific lights and running 1-3w bike specific lights or things like a P7. This was very appealing for me who wanted the most bang for their bucks without DIY or being strapped to a flashlight.

I tend to agree that battery will go bad anyway no matter of the quality of the product. However it is the safety concern that I believe matter more than the quality is the safety concern of a product. I had this feeling more was to come after Geoman emailed notice to their customer the procedure to charge the pack with some safety guidline. It became a matter of time of when the halting of sales of the MS battery after one poster had their charger smoked. I think Geoman did the right thing halting the sale of MS. It will cover their part if any liability arises. It is a shame it came down to this but a very smart move.

tuxbailey

I bought it from geoman and I used their website's contact page to send them email. I think the reply I got is an automated one.

On the other hand, I just ran a test on the set I received by leaving it on on high power (with a fan blowing.) It took 03:01 for it to reach the red/flashing red state.

I think the battery I got is okay.

Cyclist0383

From what I've read they degrade over time. It's well known that some Chinese manufactures use reclaimed batteries from laptops, and it's possible that MagicShine was doing this.

tuxbailey

I thought all Li-On batteries degrade over time, about 20% each year? I think as long as the degrade happens over years and not months, I would be ok.

Cyclist0383

Maybe it's becasue they are using recycled cells from laptops as some others in China are. That would be my guess.

dougmc

It seems unlikely. I haven't torn my pack apart as it's still working fine, but it seems to me that these cells are already pretty cheap -- I can buy four of these cells for about $16 total, and Magicshine can probably beat that.

The cells I have purchased are clearly new and not ripped out of an old laptop battery. (They're not from Magicshine, but are the same sort of cells that the packs are made of.)

I guess that really the thing to do would be to get some bad packs and tear them apart and try to figure out what's going on -- see if all four cells are bad or just one, see if the protective circuits have fried, etc. And if the cells really are recycled, this should be pretty obvious, unless they went to a lot of trouble to hide it (more than would really make financial sense, considering how cheap the cells are.) Magicshine ought to be doing this already -- it's not difficult at all.

My guess is that the problem really is the protective circuits in the pack and the charger that probably relies on the circuits in the battery rather than it's own brains rather than the cells themselves.