there are cadence sensors but so far all the ones I found are either ant or bt4

alas my SII is bt3 Grrr the S3 is Bt4 AND has a baro.

so there is no regular bt or wifi sensors for cycling? what about something arduino based?

Diy?

yes. arduino is an open source mini computer type thing. I am pretty sure they have them with BT modules. I bought a couple made to provide data for my car (pre obdII) to give me speed rpm fuel trim mpg's etc..

it should be possible to make one that can read your speed and cadence and feed that over bt to a cell phone via the arduino. I can't do it (zero programming skills) but I bet its possible. I just want to feed "EVERYTHING" to the phone in "ONE" app that is open and standardized so any site (such as strava) can "use" the data.

Some android phones can do ANT+ but the ability isn't advertised. I know that was the case with some of the Motorola Droid's. I don't know if it's still the case or why they didn't advertise the ability.

This was updated less than a year ago.

http://www.thisisant.com/pages/devel...ne/android-api

With BT4, I suspect you won't see more/new phones supporting ANT+ since it costs licensing fees to do so.

The sensors support BT4 because there's a low energy option with that. BT3 and WiFi have higher power requirements.

I suspect that any DIY approach is going to be too power-hungry to be acceptable.

power hungry? your kidding right :-) seriously no joking around power is not a problem today. a $10 lithium cell will run any BT device for "months" of usage.

the advantage of bt4 is a COIN CELL will run them for a year.

I am just really shocked at how few a number of "REGULAR" bt devices their are considering how rare bt4 is.

my mytrek armband HRM is regular bt (one of the few) sure it only goes for 5 hours but seriously. how many of us go more than 5 hours straight?

even a mediocre rider like me can cover 75 miles in 5 hours (once I get into enough shape :-)

That is significant.

Why spend $10 for a few months when you could spend $3 for a year?

Why have to screw around with batteries every 5 hours?

Some people ride for longer than 5 hours (I wouldn't buy something that lasts only 5 hours).

Coin batteries also allow the sensor transmitter to be smaller. What "$10 lithium cell" are you talking about and how big is it?

The newer phones support bt4. If you were designing and marketing a product (that also has to compete with ANT+), would you spend that effort/money supporting the older BT3 instead?

Since Wahoo Fitness didn't make a BT3 transmitter, it would seem that there are fairly significant downsides to BT3.

but its not $3 for a year. its THOUSANDS of dollars unless you already have a bt4 device which VERY few people do.

for me to get a BT4 device without service would cost me $600 to buy an S3 outright. to buy it with service would require upgrading my account which will cost me $2400 over the next 10 years AND paying $250 for the phone AND $36 to activate it.

sure I can wait a couple years and bt4 devices should be more common but thats an awful sucky solution :-)

$10 for a few months. then you .... recharge it and go another few months and then you .... recharge it and go another few months :-) I am talking a cell small enough to fit over a dozen in the volume of your water bottle.

I mean my mytrek can't have more than a 500mah cell inside. probably even smaller. so put a 4000mah cell into it (a little larger than 1 AA cell) and now your looking at 40 hours of run time. double up to 8000mah and now your looking at 80+ hours possibly over 100 hours of run time for under $10 (they sell for $3 to $4 a pop)

for the average cyclist that is MONTHS of run time. add a tiny solar panel to the mix and you might NEVER have to charge it. even a hard core cyclist that is a once a week charge.

you are an exception. if you ride that long you probably have very expensive equipment to begin with. so you would not mind "paying more" to get what you want.

the MAJORITY of us are not blessed by such discretionary funding :-)

you can see my point in this regard readily. I looked up the popular GARMIN units and very quickly abandoned that idea when I saw how "EXPENSIVE" they were ! wow. gorgeous units but priced out of the range of your "average" person.

yes I would (support Bt3) and the reason is simple. MASSIVE market potential of hundreds of millions of handsets already on the market already normal bt compatible AND still compatible with the new BT4 devices as well.

its just very "strange" to me that there is almost zero regular bt support for these kinds of things.

then again its possible the market is so small to begin with that they might not think there is a large enough market (whichever tech you use) to be profitable against the ones already in the market.

or that they want to target the high end market and that market would like tiny long battery life units (actually the sensor I was looking at predicted 2 year live on a 2032 cell IMPRESSIVE)

kind of like how tesla decided to go with a $100,000 car to entice a high end high profit market.

hopefully this stuff is just brand new and we will see more stuff released. I am actually rather surprised there is not any "chines" stuff out already on ebay and dx and stuff like that performing these functions.

maybe its just a brand new market and I am just early in my expectations.

Who makes a cadence/speed sensor that is that big?

Don't you think that Wahoo (for example) wouldn't have done that a few years ago if it made sense?

Also, it may be that there are advantages to BT4 beyond the lower power requirements.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-573...nge-your-life/

??? ANT+ (BT4) Heart monitors last longer than that on a single coin battery. People aren't going to flock to buy even larger/heavier heart monitors!

??? Bizarre. Centuries don't require "very expensive" equipment at all.

??? For a heart monitor? For a cadence/speed sensor?

No, actually. You aren't making a whole lot of sense.

?? for heart monitor you just do what the mytrek does. you plug the darned thing in (again MOST people do not need over 5 hours no matter what you think you are an extreme exception if you need more than 5 hours)

for everything else you MOUNT it to the bike so you do it just like you do it now with a cycle computer. you run sensors to a base unit and that unit has the battery.

this is not complex. I don't want to get nit picky argumentative about this. it can be done and it can be done cheaply. I have to assume they just don't see enough of a profit in doing it or a lack of market (again lack of profit)

because the tech is readily available. the wahoo don't count they went after the i market.

But it's unnecessary. Why engineer something that only lasts for that short amount of time?

??? "Run sensors to a base unit"? Are you talking about wires?

For wireless computers, there is a battery in the head unit and the transmitter. All the transmitters I've ever seen use the coin batteries.

It seems that there is a lack of market or it can't be done profitably (both are necessary).

??? They support the Android market with the same engineering!

No. they only support the android units that can use a ant+ dongle or that have ant+ otherwise there is no legacy android support.

I don't care whats necessary its doable and cheaply. short time? months is a short time to you?

I don't get why your arguing over this. does it somehow "harm" you if equipment us lowly poorer folk can afford gets made?

You aren't making sense.

They support BT4 in addition to ANT+1.

They don't support BT3 because transmitter would be too big! No company has ever made a wireless transmitter big enough.

If you are really that "poor", why are you so insistent on getting something you don't really need?

How does it "harm" you not to have it?

You can get cadence for $20. That's much cheaper than any wireless transmitter would be!

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...56&cagpspn=pla

Bizarre.

I did not say I was poor. you reading ok? that never came out of my mouth or keyboard.

I am a gadget geek and the idea that this phone can "DO" all of this and it simply needs an interface to do it drives me crazy that I can't do it :-)

they have wireless cycling computers. those seem to have plenty small transmitters in them. they are not bt 3 or 4 or ant to the best of my knowledge.

the idea would be you take these wireless sensors. and instead of sending them to a dedicated cycling computer you send that data to a brain box. THIS BRAIN BOX would have plenty of space for whatever size battery is needed and "IT" would have the BT transmitter inside.

not sure what you mean by small HAVE YOU EVER SEEN a bluetooth headset? I have bluetooth headsets that are so small that they are as small as the top of my pinky finger. so small that the "speaker" that goes in your ear is almost as large as the entire headset. and those run for HOURS at a time.

sure that cadence is $20 but I can't integrate that data with my strava data or dashware compiles. (gadget geek remember)

the argumentative nature of this discussion is what is bizzare.

"How does it "harm" you not to have it?" that statement is so ridiculous its not even worthy of a further reply.

:rolleyes: You said it here:

All of the wireless cycling transmitters (as far as I know) use the coin batteries. Those batteries don't appear to be able to run the high-powered BT3 for very long.

I an truly shocked that I need to explain this to you. truly shocked.

Person #1 makes 4 million a year.
Person #2 makes 1 million a year.

Person #2 is poorer than Person #1

neither one of them is poor.

lesson in the blatantly obvious completed. any questions?

You haven't mentioned that idea before.

There are a few types of wireless transmitters.

1) Analog (sold with a head/display unit).
2) Proprietary digital (sold with a head/display unit).
3) ANT+ (not well supported by phones).
4) BT4 (new: probably will be common for phones).

No one is going to support 2 with a "brain box" or anything else. Supporting 1 seems odd since it's subject to interference and people have the head/display unit.

There are devices that support options 3 and 4.

Here's a "brain box" heart monitor (but it only supports options 3 and 4).
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/09/4...oth-smart.html

People want less crap on their bikes, not more. It would make more sense to spend money it would cost for a clunky "brain box" on a new phone (that supports BT4).

BT3 has been available on phones for a while. Since no one made a speed/cadence/"brain box" BT3 transmitter years-ago, it seems extremely unlikely you'll see one now (given that BT4 is here).

Transmitters are often zipped-tied to the bicycle frame. Have YOU EVER SEEN one?

So, you make one million dollars per year.

Just buy a garmin!

wow amazing

http://www.jamesbom.com/wp-content/u...he-TREK.-1.jpg

look how small it is. and runs for over 5 hours !!! on regular BT !! wow what a concept.

though I bet this one is not so popular mostly due to the utter GARBAGE software it comes with thankfully icardio supports it and that is fantastic software.

Try zip-tying it to your arm and see how amazing that would be!!

Not so "amazing" compared to this (which is cheaper too):

http://www.wahoofitness.com/Products...-iPhone-4S.asp

Or this (not quite available), which supports existing transmitters.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/09/4...oth-smart.html

Like it or not, it isn't likely that you are going to see BT3 supported much for this sort of use.

so let me get this straight.

your comparing my $25 armband HRM (ok new its $79 I got it used on ebay because I don't have $79 :-) either way (not relevant but nonetheless) I wanted the mytrek because it was NOT a chest strap.

OH SNAP your link is also $79 same as the Mytrek and I don't have to buy a new $500 phone to get use it.

OH thats right you forgot to factor in the $500 phone you will need to USE that $79 same price as mine HRM.

and mine will run on "ANY" android of iphone that has ANY form of bluetooth.

even if I DO NOT have an android phone I can by a $30 cheap used android phone and use it with the mytrek.

whats the cheapest bt4 phone you can find? let me know when you find one.

LOOK I love the idea of BTLE bt4 its GREAT.

it just is "annoying" that its such a RARE feature of a phone and yet they skipped right over regular bt and went right to btle.

its annoying thats all. they can make BT headsets for $5 full retail shipped around the world included in the price.

why can't they make a cheap $10 set of bicycle sensors or $40.

I get it. bt4 is the way to go. but its a couple years off so I get teased in the mean time.

though I MIGHT actually be getting an S3 this weekend.

and it might be free. (eventually) Iphone 5's are REALLY hot right now.

so instead of paying $250 to upgrade to an S3 I am going to pay $300 to upgrade to an iphone 5 and then trade the iphone 5 for an S3 plus $300 in cash (got 2 potential people lined up for this deal since iphone 5's out of contract START at $700 for the base model around here)

the $300 cash refunds the $300 I spend upgrading the to the iphone 5

the only reason i can do this is that my plan lets me migrate between the $30 plan and the $50 plan. so I upgrade to the $50 plan get the iphone then reactivate my OLD phone and move back down the the $30 plan and clone the S3 onto my boost account to replace my S2.

long and convuluted process but it might let me get an S3 for a price I really can afford. Free.

Just got to come up with the $300 to do the upgrade since I can't ask for the $300 from my buyer until after I have the iphone 5 but I need the $300 to get the iphone 5.

SO CLOSE. we shall see after this weekend.

THIS thing is pretty darned cool

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/08/h...art-power.html

but wow $200. would take me a while to squirrel away that.

??? What weird drugs are you on?

Why do you keep insisting that people support obsolete technology?

Doesn't the Galaxy S3 support BT4?

http://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy...fications.html

great handle you got.

yes the S3 does. but the S3 is a $500 phone. more when you factor in plan prices.

I just figured out the gimmick that MIGHT let me get an S3 for nothing. I would "STILL" like to see regular BT because its not obsolete.

RECORDS are obsolete. you can't put a RECORD into a CD player.

but a BT device "CAN" connect to a BT4 brain (phone)

do I expect "high end" makers to use BT? no they make HIGH END stuff. I am just annoyed there is no LOW END makers making this stuff.

just like I can spend $100 on an expensive cycling computer if the $8 I spent on the nice panoramic backlit multi screen cycle computer I bought off ebay. (before I found out I could use my phone for much of this Grrr but at least it was only $8)