I have a good battery tester that sends a signal through the batteries and tells you what percentage is left. Not going by voltage. I have two Rabots. I realized that when they started to bump themselves off the batteries were so low they showed 0% left. I use rechargeable batteries. When one one gets low I just switch to the other light, and recharge the low batteries. If I think I have a lot of hours on one set of batteries, I will switch lights and recharge before they get too weak. I made my living most of my working life finding and repairing intermitent electrical problems. Low voltage and not enough power will cause problems with mechanical connections and also solid state things in practically anything. Cold bike light batteries will do the same thing, but will be OK when warm again.
The radbot is so bright that it looks OK even when the batteries are almost dead. Only my tester would show me the problem. I did not figure it out until I tested the batteries.
They also do use up batteries quickly.

My radbots have not been in a downpour, I can't speak to the question of water problems.

I've never found a light that is completely waterproof. The problem is spray from the rear wheel.

Even if you could find one it'd probably be expensive or you'd have to compromise on brightness.

I swear by the superblinkies, but I put a plastic bag over them with a rubberband in the rain. Works perfect.

I'm guessing you didn't bother reading this entire thread:

I agree that the problem is spray from the rear wheel and managed to drown another Blackburn the other day. Not dead, but killed the batteries, so over a 12 month period a waterproof unit would break even just on cost avoidance for batteries. Both the ZebraLight and the Vision X are waterproof and put out more lumens than anything currently marketed specifically for bikes.

@Burton, there's a hell of a lot of information in this thread. Almost all of it ancedotal evidence, tons of theories and best practices, recomendations... a lot of great ideas, a lot of flamebait, etc. Good and bad it is impossible to post here while weighing and taking into account every post. Your above quoted post did not mention brand and model so I failed to find it immediately relevant to the simple point I was trying to make. Upon reviewing it again I'm still not sure what models and hence what point you're trying to make.

All I am saying is for what it's worth and in my experience I've found one trick I wanted to reiterate that was only mentioned on this thread once and that is to put a plastic bag or ziplock over your light and bind it in the back with tape, a rubber band, a skrunchy (sp?) or whatever you've got at your disposal.

The original poster of this idea mentioned triming the plastic bag and taping it... I personally find tape breaks down to easy, indeed I have tried with limited success in the past taping the seam around my planet bike and serfas style super blinkies, but it degraded to quickly and failed to be easily repeated after the original taping degraded.

That said the rubber bands I use to hold the plastic bags around my lights also degrade, as well as the plastic bags themselves.

The plastic bags get dirty, they get weather worn, they biodegrade... sometimes they get moisture in them... sometimes they get so covered in mud and road grime you can't see the light through them.

That said they're easy to replace.

What I like about the plastic bag trick is it's easily replicateable and repeatable and will probably work with any tail light.

So for what it's worth I think it's a solid piece of advice.

Now... some other issues... :)

Waterproof ratings... though I saw some references here and am interested in the subject it's rare to find a tail light rated for waterproof the way say a Garmin is... or a watch. The huge variety of abuses a tail light goes through and their general price point don't make it worth while for manufacturers to go to such great lengths. It's like warrantying and verifying the quality of drink umbrellas and yet we depend on these things to possibly save our lives when we get stuck on a crap road on some dark and stormy night.

It's an impossible situation and I'm up for any idea or product that emerges either imperically with ANSI/ ISO/IP or whatever rating or simply ancedotally... i.e. lots of people chime in on the thread and said "this works for me". I personally haven't yet found a tested, rated and certified waterproof light that I'd shell out the cash for though I did once have one of those cateye TL-LD1000 that seemed to survive everything I through at it until I lost it when I submersed my bike while ice biking. It's probably still floating around lake Erie with its fresh lithium ion batteries and someday someone will find it and turn it on and it will work.... but this anecdote just reminds me of one thing... even if you find the ultimate waterproof tail light it still can be lost or broken at the drop of a hat. Also... I thought it was a little bulky and weak. /end run-on sentence :)

2) superblinkies from planet / serfas and others were a game changer for me. They litterally changed the way cars reacted around me. They slowed down and gave me my three feet of space. It was a change that could and probably already has litterally saved my life. I don't think it's just the brightness. I think it's also the flash combination. I used to think the secondary non-ultrabright LED's in the superblinkie were a waste of battery and space... but I've come to appreciate that it's something about it's irradic blinking that perhaps... maybe makes people think... "what's that?" or maybe "is that a cop?". I think that very aknowlegement and question is what makes this light so effective.

I'm not sold on paying $10 or so more for the newer brighter superblinky "ultra" or whatever they are called because for that price their are a host of other options now, which is I guess why I'm reading this thread. The original superblinkie has now been surpased, and I'm considering alternatives to the superblinkie ultra which I think is overpriced.

3) waterproof vs. other features... I still value brightness and cost over anything. I'd love it if a light was waterproof but I'm not going to sacrifice brightness or pay a whole lot more for it. Especially since I've personally never found a light I couldn't make leak or at least corrode or get condensation in over time. Other factors are size, weight, battery longevity and the type of batteries it uses. All these play a role not just how waterproof it is. Hence... a plastic bag works for me in a pinch.

4) can a tail light ever be waterproof enough? I hear and read of people saying they've never had a problem. Cool! Stick with it... and do post lights, conditions you ride in. Great stuff... out of all these anecdotal reports comes a certain sort of useful information. For example, perhaps cateye tail lights are a little bit more consistently waterproof then a other brands. However, don't doubt that there are those of us that are tail light killers. I pride myself on the number of miles I put on my gear, the coldness of the weather I ride in, the enjoyment I get out of riding in rain, snow, sleet, wind, cold..... and the wear I put my gear. I love wearing the crap out of tires... I crack rims and break spokes.... because that's what they do after you have 20-30,000 miles of pounding pavement, grinding gravel and singletrack. Hell, my favorite trip ever has been riding from cleveland 1500 miles down the cuyahoga, over through the panhandle of WV, down the great allegheny passage, then the shenendohah river to the skyline drive, then the blue ridge parkway and finally over to Charleston South carolina... in January. There were days it didn't get above 14 degrees, there were blizards and whiteout snow conditions, days when I hiked over five foot drifts, when everything was coated in a quarter inch of glare ice and you could barely stay standing on the gravel on the side of the road, days when i road in the rain sunup to sundown.... but there were also bluebird days when it was 65 and I was high up on a mountain in only a t-shirt shirt and shorts with not a car or person on the Parkway. But during this whole trip I used a $20-25 Planet bike superblinkie covered in a plastic bag with some lithium ion batteries in it. It stayed dry for the most part and kept working wonderfully. Indeed the only mistake I made was not changing the plastic bag covering it at least once. After riding in three straight days of rain on the way from Asheville to Charleston I noticed some water was getting inside. Obviously with that much cold, dirt and rain a plastic bag is going to start to break down after a few weeks.

In summary... even if a light is "completely waterproof"... even if it's rated and certified by every institution... it's still at the very least going to get some condensation in it do shifts in barametric pressure, temperature... which are going to cause it to degrade over time. That is if you don't loose it or break it first.

So... @burton, if I'm not mistaken, because I have at least attempted to read every post... that is exactly the sort of advice you were seeking. I don't propose a perfect "solution", indeed I don't believe one can ever purchase a solution... solutions are myths created by advertisers to sell products. Instead I believe gear is merely a tool... which if treated properly and used with skill and measured use and abuse has a generally reasonable and reliable rate of failure. But it all does fail eventually. It should fail with grace and beauty, like a continental gatorskin tire which gradually shows its threads after you've worn it out instead of giving you erradic flats or stranding you... or delaminating like a specilized armadillo... though delamination is sort of cool too.

Indeed I've killed four or five superblinkies over the years before I settled in on the plastic bag trick, not to mention every other tail light I've ever used. The superblinkie from my eastern divide trip has made it all the way through it's second winter and is still going strong... still, I know it's corroding inside do if nothing else condensation from irradic temperature shifts. So eventually I'll have to replace it as I should like an old worn out shoe. Much like an old shoe though I've learned to love it and treat it right so I know exactly how much abuse and care it will take to perhaps make it through another raining spring, summer, fall and maybe even another winter.

Planet bike is what I have been using for years and it is holding up well. I have a old Vist lite that I have had for years and it still works after losing the cover during a mudd MTB ride. It was packed full of mud, got home imersed it in water and only 1 led went out. I found the cover a few weeks later and it still works.

Wow! that was a long post and I really want to thank you for taking the time to write it all out! Actually it looks very much like we've both already covered some of the same territory both in tours and in lighting equipment.

Have to say up front that I realize I'm not the average poster on these boards, but am sure there are at least a few others that aren't enthralled with the latest crop of so called 'bike lights' the industry is trying to feed the general public.

I've commuted and travelled with a number of front and rear lights over the past number of years and am looking for something that will stand up to the next ten years. I've done the plastic bag thing already and could work with that if it was the only issue. The real problem is that the actual outputs and runtime of these lights leaves me less than impressed. Money really wasn't a limitation. Actual output and long term performance is.

Earlier this year I posted a fairly comprehensive thread outlining my criteria for a headlight and the final results, which is a pair of 340g 900 lumen LED pods with a shaped beam, wired to a pair of remote 5.6Ah Lipo battery that give a run time of 9 hrs and a recharge time of 3 hrs. Total cost was less than $400 and I wouldn't personally trade it for anything else currently on the market. They will effectively illuminate a full car lane widthwise with brighter coverage than the average automobile.

Those LED light enclosures have a limited lifetime warranty as well as an IP rating of 68 indicating the enclosure is (6) totally protected against dust and (8) protected against long periods of water emersion under pressure.

IP is an acronym for "Ingress Protection" and IP ratings are defined in the lnternational Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) standard 60529.

The IP rating is a two digit sequential code, with the first digit indicating a protection level against solids such as dust (on a scale of 1 to 6), and the second digit indicating a protection level against liquids (on a scale of 1 to 9).
The company also makes a 3 W red LED using the same housing and the same IP protection. It sells for about $125 and I'm thinking I could just plug it onto the same battery or reverse mount it on a helmet and run it off an independent battery from my back pocket.

The ZebraLight is a tactical headlight again with ingress protection IPX8 (2 meters, 30 minutes) and a high output red LED. It sells for around $70 and will run off a single AA cell, but runtime on high is pretty limited.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca--d...e_gdata_player

First... an extremely relevant resource everyone here will love.

==Review of the Best Bicycle Tail Lights in 2012==
http://bicycles.blogoverflow.com/201...-light-review/

found via: ******.com/r/bicycling

I've done over it once, and I will be reading it again.

== battery life ==

I think my superblinkie on two energizer lithium ion lasted nearly my entire 1500 mile / 34 day trip down the eastern divide. I might have changed the batteries right at the end since riding through SC from Asheville down to Charleston was the most dangerous part of the trip with rain and night riding on sometimes major roads. It did the job.

Nothing like coming into charleston along the Enoree(sp?) River at 20mph in the pouring rain at dusk with rush hour traffic. A strange city, amped on adrenaline after riding in the rain for days, wanting to get to the hostel, unfamiliar with the area... dealing with suburban and urban rushhour traffic, competing with a tremendous amount of other moving lights and distractions. It is the quintesential worst case scenario for saftey and therefore best test of a tail light.

== lithium ion for winter use ==

I do find btw that lithium ion energizer are the only way to go for winter use in a tail light. They hold up better to the extreme cold and end up lasting between two and four times longer (in a light like the superblinkie) then duracell or non-lithium. Plus when they die they die slowly... so you have several days to pick up some new batteries. I've been on winter rides when non lithium ion died so quickly I was left stranded ont he side of a busy road asking to get hit.

In summary generally i don't have a problem with the longevity. I remember older generations of lights that I'd just forget to turn off because they were so crap dim I could forget. I don't think I've ever killed a set of superblinkie batteries because I forgot to turn them off. That is, or was my only longevity issue.

== other considerations ==

Brightness and longevity have always been my primary concern. Now I guess I'd say brightness and the flash mode... I guess with my experience with the superblinkie I require a high speed or erratic speed and brightness strobe mode. In short... i want people to think maybe I might be a cop so they slow down to at least the speed limit and move over.

As for money... I don't like to spend so much for something that I can't afford to loose it or break it on tour. I'd classify this as about $15-$25, maybe $35. I guess the primary reason I consider money is because I assume every tail light is going to fail eventually due corrosion from moisture / internal condensation... after 1-2 years use.

I just think of lights as having a lifespan like a tire. And I'm fine with that as long as it's predictable. Indeed after 1-2 years there's going to better lights out anyway.

If I'm going to pay $35 or more for a light it's going to have to last longer and be brighter. I'm dying to be proven wrong on the waterproof front... which is why I'm reading this thread.

Battery format... I prefer to stick to things using either a AAA or AA format on tour. I do this because I like to trickle down batteries. I.E. AA Digital camera or AA Garmin GPS cast off's go to the headlamp, headlamp cast offs go to the tail light. I have a slight preference toward AA devices, though I don't mind carrying a few spare AAA for a long lasting tail light.

That's quite a kit... I'm very down with DIY/MYOG thing. Indeed I've moded lights in the past... though mostly to change battery formats... i.e. to AA for touring or to create an external battery pack I could hide in my clothes for extreme winter touring. Do you have a link to a detailed post on this setup?

For what it's worth I don't require that many lumen for touring, but what I do require is non-proprietary batteries because I'm often in remote places I can't recharge daily or even every 2-3 days. Again I primarily stick with AA or AAA lights. For headlamps I currently use lights in the 150-200 lumen range.

My two favorite are as follows

Nebo Redline Bike Light
http://www.nebotools.com/prod_details.php?id=145

3 AAA
220 lumen, 4 hours
110 lumen, 8 hours
220 strobe, 72 hours
MSRP $39.99

I love this light. It's been my goto headlamp for touring since I discovered it last fall.

I used it to ride all night on two seperate occasions on a tour late last fall following the NCT (North Country Trail) through the lower peninsula. It was a rainy trip so I decided I would ride when it wasn't raining, even if that was straight through the night. Good times. :)

Longevity and brightness are superb, even in the extreme cold.

The strobe mode is awesome... I've even had cars come to a stop on quiet country lanes either because they're wondering what the hell i am or because they think I'm a cop. For that reason I don't leave it on strobe in the country, but the strobe is absolutely perfect in the city and suburban areas. I can ride with confidence knowing people see me.

This is technically a tactical light with a bike light mount. People like those on candlepowerforums were already using it as a bike light, nebo came out with a mount. It says waterproof but doesn't have a rating. I would trust it in any rain, though I wouldn't submerse it.

As a first gen bike light I have found a few minor deficiencies, mostly with the mount

1) screws holding on the bicycle mount on some models came loose... fix: simply check and make sure they're tight when you buy it

2) focus adjuster on some models is inconsitently tight on some models causing focus to change while riding on rough roads. So minor I haven't bothered to fix it.

3) sometimes switches modes when riding rough roads... technical description: 3AA battery internal battery holder can rattle around on rough roads causing the electronic moment switch to recieve fluctuations in power causing it to switch modes... fix: wrap a tiny bit of paper or plastic around the battery pack so it doesn't rattle as much in the enclosure. Fixes issue completely.

4) tab holding light to mount is not beefy enough and light can vibrate loose... I simply put a re-useable ziptie around it.

Remington 150 lumen headlamp:
http://www.amazon.com/Remington-RMHL.../dp/B001KYFZJG

150 lumen, 4AA

I use this as my goto winter touring headlamp. Indeed I used it as my primary and only headlamp for the month long ride down the eastern divide. I just find the format to handle extreme cold so well I don't need to put the battery pack inside my clothes. Also seems to hold up superbly in rain and other fowl weather.

Thanks, was trying to catch back up on this the other day but couldn't find the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingress_Protection

Great reference for IP codes.

Now I get while you'd posted the zebralight. They love that format in some of the backpacking forums I use and the candlepowerforums. Indeed you might google up on the candlepower forums. Great forums. They're true geeks in the best sense of the word and won't let matters rest on ancedotal evidence. The amount of technical research and testing is well beyond that of this forum when it comes to lighting.

But back to the zebralight.

Great all around light. They're also about as waterproof as they come... certainly more so then just about anything we talked about here.

Didn't realize they had a red mode. My only wish is it had more of a red strobe or emergency mode. The slow on and off blink I don't think is going to be as effective as the epilleptic fit that a radbot, superblinkie or other light put out. I could be wrong though. Have you used it heavily as a sole tailight?

If it had a faster strobe I might consider ditching my superblinkie for this type of light, though I consider the zebra to be a high premium. There are better priced lights using this format.

As for the format it might be ideal for touring it's multi-purpose use as a headlamp and even a backup or emergency handlebar light would make it killer.

The ability to use a re-useable ziptie to secure it to practically anywhere including the seatpost, handlebar or even the back of my super twinkie stuff sack make it a great format.

So... please tell me they make one in this format with a red strobe mode. I do have hope because the nebo readline is in the same "tactical" class of lights. It's a hot category. :)

So after doing a reality check, looks like the non-bike specific option (Vision X) is the most appropriate choice. Which is pretty stupid since it should be a breeze to find something WITHIN the bicycling industry, but ...... no!

I have touring panniers by Arkel and Voyager. Neither have any dedicated means to mount a light to the rear of a pannier. Neither do any of the rain covers that go over them. So looks like I'm stuck with a reverse mounted helmet-mount which no bicycle specific rear light model does easily either.

I really hate DIY stuff but looks like once again its the best option.

OK So got in a couple red LED pods and smacked them on the seatpost. Narrow beam thats bright enough to light up the pavement behind me when pointed downwards. I'm guessing between 200 and 300 lumens each. Yeah - I guess in a pinch it might be possible to use them as flashlights. The usual lifetime warranty and IP68 build that seems to be unimportant to anyone on these forums except me. :lol:

Cateye TL-LD1100 has an o-ring on the battery compartment and rubber covered buttons so I'd guess that it's pretty waterproof.
I used to have a 1000 and it seemed pretty good.

http://www.cateye.com/en/products/detail/TL-LD1100/

Appreciate the suggestion but have checked the site and confirmed that Cateye describes that model as only 'water resistant'. I ocassionally drive in seriously heavy rain. Today I actually commuted in a shorty wetsuit and surf sandals and simply changed at work.

As a result I've drowned too many lights to be interested in anything less than fully waterproof. The units I'm currently testing seem to fit the bill do far.

There's a good weather seal on my Trek light. No problems with it.