Try the rechargeable systems like the one's at REI

http://www.rei.com/category/4500819

Now that this thread got bumped and I reread parts of it --

I'm not so sure that offroad nighttime biking is as prevalent as we're being led to believe, particularly by accessory manufacturers. Some of us ride like that, of course, but not very many overall.

Battery systems are indeed the best fit for slow, technical riding, especially if you can add one to your helmet so you're not stuck with only seeing wherever your front wheel is pointed. I just think that feeding them on a charger gets to be enough of an annoyance to make me prefer dyno systems whenever possible.

The last straw for me came with the AA-powered Dinotte lights that I got a few years ago. Damned bright, front and back, but if I didn't stick the batteries in the charger overnight at least once every two days, especially in cold winter weather, I learned to expect that they'd drop to low-power mode even on my relatively short commute. Going out for a two-hour ride after dark was no longer a spur-of-the-moment thing because I had to either put the batteries in the charger that morning or always have a second set on standby. I'm positive that run times would be less of a problem with the Li-ion systems, but still, my Dinottes started gathering dust the day I got my dynohub-equipped city bike. I really should either sell them off or send them in for an upgrade to a single Li-ion setup.

What is that all about? Do you work for them? Or are you some anal weenie that is excited about your purchase?

:notamused: Got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

If you look at the pictures on the site I posted there were some lights that did better then the MiNewt for the same cost or less. So I wasn't trying to convey that someone needed to spend a mint for lighting. In fact for road use you don't need more then 500 lumens per light; single track riding is a different story. I have two headlight I use at night, a Phillips Saferide on the bars and a Cygolite Mitycross 480 on the helmet and those two lights are more then what's needed for the road. In fact most of the time I use only the middle brightness setting on the Mitycross and low on the Saferide. The Saferide is a fairly expensive light but the only reason I use is because I won the light, otherwise I would have gone with my Mitycross on the bars and my ExpiliOn 350 on the helmet which was plenty of light...now my wife uses the ExpiliOn as her only light however she doesn't go out at night but does use it on flash mode during the day.

Personally I think someone with budget concerns could get one of the ExpiliOn lights as their main light, then later when they have more money saved get a second ExpiliOn either brighter or the same brightness and add it to their helmet. I would probably put the dimmer one on the helmet. But a single 300 to 350 lumen ExpiliOn on the bars would be plenty of lighting especially in the city with lots of ambient lighting.

You can get a ExpiliOn 600 (lumens) for under $100...barely. Or a 350 for under $85. Anyway see: http://www.amazon.com/CygoLite-Expil...olite+expilion This would make the MiNewt look like a DimWit.

I agree. However, the MiNewt 350 (along with a lot of other NiteRider products) is discontinued and a smart shopper can find these products very inexpensively. Additionally, there are more considerations than cost when buying lights - - Dependability, availability, quality, etc.That depends on where you ride and how fast you ride. I have 1500 lumens on my bar and it's just right for my nighttime routes.Congratulations! :thumb:Sounds like great lighting and good planning.Well, not really, for the above stated reasons. There are many more reasons for buying or not buying a light than simply what the beam looks like in an internet test, just like in any other area where we make purchases. Quality? Availability? Personal preference? Reputation of the company? How long the company has been around? I generally choose NiteRider for my front lighting, but other people's choices are just as valid. I think my concern is the verocity of a couple of the responses to scottspeedster's large-font recommendation of the 350. I'm thinking that we could have said "The MiNewt 350 is a great light! But there's a lot of other choices, also, some that are less expensive - here's what I use" rather than the odd accusation that the poster works for the marketing dept at NiteRider.

Ride Free! :thumb:

Wow. Thanks for that rekmeyata. Interesting perspective.

So what your saying is that only the MiNewt 350 is the only dependable light on the market? or am I misunderstanding you? That's nonsense. Serfas, Cygolite, Topeak, Light & Motion, NightRider, Cateye, just to name a few make just as reliable lights as the MiNewt. Just read the reviews on the internet and one can easily see that. Sure, I would assume that a $15 headlight won't last as long, but no body is talking about those.

Personally I think 1500 lumens is too bright, unless you have a Magicshine then you need 1500 because their 1500 is a tad dimmer then Cygolite Mitycross 480 lumen light! If you have night vision problems then you might need 1500. The system I have I can more then see the road with, in fact I usually ride with the lights on the medium setting. Too much light hitting the pavement bounces back into your eyes causing night blindness that allows you to see nothing but blackness outside of the light beam.

Yes, you are misunderstanding me - I said that the 350 was one of many great lighting choices. I said: "I generally choose NiteRider for my front lighting, but other people's choices are just as valid" in post 31. I also complimented you on your planning and choice of lights: "Sounds like great lighting and good planning," also in post 31. I did not say at any time that the NiteRider Minewt 350 was the only dependable light on the market - where did you get that?NiteRider (notice my correct spelling) makes the MiNewt series. If you want to argue points, a little research would help.Why? every street and neighborhood is different, and has different lighting needs. If in your routes 1500 is too bright, that's fine; in my area 1500 is fine.Hahahahaha - On what planet does this take place? Maybe if you point the light straight downward and stare at the pavement :)

The greater the contrast (difference in brightness) the less you will see out side the beam of light. Night blindness really happens. Same thing as some one shining a flash light in your eyes then they shut it off. It takes a while to get your vision back.

How long do the 123 batteries last in these? Are you using rechargeable 123A's? I'm trying to figure out operational cost benefits.

Not using 123a(s), using 18650s. I pay about $7 to $9 each for some good 18650s.

What you're saying is true. However, it does not apply to a mere 1500 lumen headlight pointed away from you down the street. If that was the case every car and motorcycle being used at night would have "blinded" drivers. I've used over 1000 lumens on my handlebars for years now, and the reflection from the pavement has never blinded me "that allows you to see nothing but blackness outside of the light beam" (to quote Mr. rekmeyata's statement that we are referring to). Every night, when I ride, I can see the curbs, houses, parked cars, necking couples, it's all there. The light from a 1500 lumen bike light does not routinely reflect off of the pavement and blind the rider.

Yea it all depends on how well of a designed light you have too. If you have a super bright narrow spot beam your wasting light by not spreading it out.

Depends on where you're riding and how fast. Some of the people hear like to ride fast, so they typically put a 'thrower' on their helmets and then run a second, more 'floody' light on the bars.

I agree. My light spreads the beam quite a bit because its intent is for off-road where you need to see bushes, trees, snakes, bears and latrines. I find it wonderful for street use too.

I've never used a light on my helmet, but I think I might start. A lot of people here do it and it makes a lot of sense - plus I have a NR MiNewt 600 Cordless sitting around doing nothing . . .

From that response I'm guessing you're used to narrow beam lights that throw a lot of light but only illuminate a very small area. Total waste of lumens IMO.
But if, on the other hand, you want to light up the whole width of the street - it'll take a lot more than 1,500 lumens to do it.

Halogens are only about 60% as effecient as LEDs and an automobile uses 110 watts on low beam. So a close approximation would need about 60 watts of LEDs to generate the same lighting over an equal area. Currently, bike lights aren't even close.

This has to do with the fact that a true 1500 lumen light will create a bright white road with lots of light bouncing back into your eyes off the pavement closing the pupal of your eyes to a small pin hole, this means that if you were to look to your left or right all you'll see is black and very little if any detail on a country road. I don't about you, but I prefer to have my night vision acuity because I don't ride or drive with my eyes glued to one spot on the road.

if your using one of the newer xml magicshine style lights - it does have a pretty concentrated hotspot - if you use this filter it widens the beams nicely across the road

http://www.action-led-lights.com/col...ide-angle-lens

What you're describing has more to do with lens / reflector design than lumen output. I've previously posted a number of photos and comments about this in other threads. The 3,600 lumen array used in the attached photo incorporates projector lenses and Fresnel lenses to produce a wide even beam and shows none of the symptoms you've described.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268252

And yet for decades, motorcycles got by with just a 60/55w main beam. No offense Burton, but your requirements make you an outlier. These days there are a lot of motorcycles with twin headlights, but for the longest time, and still true for some today, they've used a single headlight.

A car headlight is 1300 lumens (who cares about the watts). You wouldn't want to drive your car with only one headlight working half way (i.e. 650 lumens) and go 30mph or faster, would you?

1500 lumens is a reasonable light standard especially if you ride on the road. Most of the higher lumen lights have a wide spread on the light so you really need to think more in terms of light density - i.e. lumens per square area. I have a flashlight with at about 200 lumens with massive throw and pencil beam (narrow). It's lumens per square area is higher than my Lupin Wilma at 1500 lumens which has a very wide beam similar to a car headlight. The narrow beam is useless for riding (although great for chasing vandals off my dock) while the Wilma is great for riding but pretty crummy when long throw with high lumens is needed.

Really, if you are riding on the road, 1500 lumens should be reasonable. 2600 lumens should also be fine, about what a car with two headlights produces provided that they spread the light out - like a headlight should. If you ride on a trail where it's confined (i.e. riding in the green tunnel) then you can definitely get by with less because the light can't spread out. But you still probably need the same lumens per square area on the trail it's just that your area is smaller so you require less lumens.

I do a lot of road riding and I'm wanting about 3000 lumens or so. I'm going to aim them appropriately and I'm not going to apologize to anyone that complains if they are not complaining about standard car headlights.

J.

So I'm guessing that your experience with motorcycles is a bit limited. Even though they often used the same bulbs as automotive headlights did - the lens / reflectors were far more sophisticated, effective, .... and expensive. The last motorcycle I personally owned was a BMW K1. The single headlight on that machine used the same bulb as the previous BMW R100RS, but using a different lens and reflector system, managed to throw out more light than the R100RS - even with two Bosch driving lights added. The recent move to twin headlights isn't because they throw more light - its because its a less expensive installation overall. And I don't mind being an 'outlier' - no-one thats seen the lighting system I'm using has criticized it. The usual comment is 'I wish I could afford something like that'.

Cool! Finally someone that understands effective lighting!
So let me know how this stacks up against your Wilma.
The 3,600 lumen array used in the attached photo incorporates projector lenses and Fresnel lenses to produce a wide even beam and shows none of the 'hotspot' issues associated with bicycle lights and flashlights. It also has a run time of about 5 hours.
My bet is that when its readily available for $200 or less - that most serious riders won't waste their time with anything else.
Attachment 268252

Not an extended exposure - quite the opposite. MTBR beamshots are taken at 4 sec, ISO 100 and F4. This one used 1 sec, ISO 100 and F 4.