Used search re: flashlights vs. bike lights - more confused than ever now
 

Okay, so for about a year I've been running this light:

http://www.cygolite.com/products/new...2LED_Xtra.html

It's okay, but it's kinda heavy. The whole unit weighs in at about 12 ounces. Also, it's the type of light that steadily dims over time. Most of my riding is streets and MUPs both with good lighting and without. Even on the MUP where there is decent lighting for most of it, I still like a really bright light because there are sections where the pavement is pretty crappy and I like to avoid the potholes and larger cracks. There are also the occasional geese and coyotes to deal with. So, I was looking at a brighter and hopefully lighter weight lighting system.

So, I found through searching all about using high intensity Cree LED flashlights for primary lighting. Many seem to be awfully inexpensive too, which is good. I need to outfit up to three bikes so I'd like to keep the lighting for each bike below about $50/light, preferably much less. The Cygolite unit I have is only 150 Lm on its highest setting and frankly I really wish I had something a lot brighter than that.

So, for flashlights I found these:
1600 Lm - with two batteries (18650) and charger - $23.39
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110912766066...84.m1423.l2649

1800 Lm - again with two batteries (26650) and charger - $32.99
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180902810500...84.m1423.l2649

Of course mounts would be extra, but I've seen some simple ones that are probably only $5 each or so.

So, to further complicate things, I've found through the search function and all the various "what light is best under x$?" threads that you can buy highly rated Magicshine knock-offs over on Amazon for $37.87:
http://www.amazon.com/Lumen-Bicycle-...sim_sbs_misc_1

So, darn it - I don't know what to think at this point. I want really bright light, good run time, and ease of charging. Also, the ability to use the light off the bike, say in camping or perhaps around the house would be nice too. I like that the Magicshine knock off has a headband set up - seems like that would be very useful for camping. Finally, I'm also thinking that I'd like to add a light to my helmet so that I can turn my head and light up cars with inattentive drivers during those occasions when I'm riding the streets and not the MUPs. So, I could see doing both, eg. having a bike specific light mounted on the handlebars and maybe a flashlight on the helmet. Also, I can mount lights either on the bar or on a front rack since I have both options available. Anyway, please help me decide.

I've used flashlights and a couple of magicshines over the years, and have never gotten the advertised run times out of any of my lights. The magicshine came close with the original battery and is easy to charge if the charger and an outlet are nearby, the NiMH flashlight batteries are a little harder to charge and didn't last as long. If I were going to do it all over again, i think I'd go with a the 26650 batteries and a flashlight like you mentioned above. They'd be easier to switch from bike to bike and easier to mount on the helmet too.

The problem with flashlights is that not only are they more difficult to charge, you have to remove the battery to change it. If you carry spares...which you should...changing one in the dark entails disassembly of the light and fumbling with multiple small parts in the dark. A wired bike light is simply unplugged and the new battery plugged in.

Mounting a flashlight so that it can be removed or moved from one bike to the next, is problematic too. You can use Two Fish blocks but I never felt that they were that good. The light vibrated on the bars too much. A dedicated bike light has a mounting system that makes them easier to mount and easier to remove. You can buy helmet mounts for the Magicshine style light for around $10. The helmet light mount is very stable and still as easy to use as the handlebar mount. While taking the light on and off may seem like a rather mundane feature, remember that you may want to remove the lights if you are leaving the bike parked outside or you may not need lights for a particular ride.

Finally, If you have to have a flasher...these lights are bright enough to see with and be seen and quite annoying in flash mode...I would suggest the flasher on the bike with the steady on your head. You will find more utility with a helmet mounted light than with the bar mounted light.

I did think that the flashlights might be a bit more of a pain with having to remove and swap batteries, but still I can't imagine it's that difficult. I do park the bike while running into the grocery store and such, so I never like leaving any easily-stolen items attached, so bike computer and lights always come off and go in a pannier which I take in with me. Do you think the Magicshine knock-off light (which I did see you recommended in a previous post), has a longer run time with it's 4x18650 battery pack versus a single flashlight with a 26650 battery? Also, while I've got you answering questions here on this - since you live in Colorado, have you ever ridden in Fort Collins? The wife and I are planning to move to Ft. Collins in the next year and I'm wondering about riding the various MUPs, trails, etc. and whether something like the Magicshine knock-off would be a good lighting system for roads and trails around there.

I just got my 26650 flashlights a week ago and they are a pain but they're very effective. I wouldn't say they're dramatically cheaper either, by the time you get done adding batteries (15 per cell), a charger (25 for a decent one) and all the other stuff.

If you like fiddling with stuff, get the flashlights. You can also use them as... flashlights. Way better than the collection of maglights I have laying around.

If you want something you can just mount and forget about, get a regular bike light. Cygolite, Lezyne, Magicshine... there are plenty of good ones out there and they take some of the effort out of lighting your bike.

I agree with cycommute about the mounts, they're not great. I don't think swapping batteries would be any big deal though - unscrew the endcap, swap them out (they're FAR from small), screw it back on. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I had that Cygolite Hi Flux II 150 lumens couple of years back. Trust me nowaday LED lights has came a long way and just about most modern light will be much more brighter than the Hi Flux II. The 150 lumens claim from Cygolite is about right but don't get too high expectation from many of the lumens claim from the newer light based on the product description from the seller. You can expect to get up to 800 to 1000 lumens from a single Cree XML light regardless of the battery type. For a single P7 LED, you might get up to 500 to 600 lumens. This apply regardless of the light being a flashlight or a wired bike light.

For a bar light, it is hard to beat an actual bike light that was design to be mounted on the bar. They typically has better mode selection than most flashlight. The shorter body of a bicycle light is much shorter than a typical flashlight which will have a tendancy to tilt more often than a bar design bicycle light. The runtime from a multiple battery pack from a bar light is also better regulated than a single cell torch light. 26650 battery flashlight does have better runtime and better regulation over a single 18650 cell flashlight but finding a good holder for mounting it to the bar is far and few. If you are worry about theft with a bar light that runs off of a battery pack, you do have the option of taking just the light with you but leave the battery behind. What I did for a while was I place the battery pack inside my pannier on the rack and ran an extension cable to the front bar. The battery is hidden and less likely to be stolen while the light can be unplug and taken with you.

I prefer a torch for helmet light. The footprint of a flashlight has a better profile for helmet mounting than it is using a bar design light. It sits lower and has a more streamline look. There is not wire or battery pack to fuss around. Since most likely you will not be running the helmet on High mode, the battery runtime should be sufficient if you run the helmet flashlight along with a bar light.

Becareful of selecting your light. You should try to research the beam pattern of the light you are planning to buy. Read any review you can find. Just because two light can be using the same LED emitter it does mean they have the same beam pattern. The design of the reflector can easily change a light from flood to a tight spot. Your Cygolite was flood with a semi tight spot but the throw was not very far. That being said, I think any typical flood pattern light with a Cree XML will easily out perform your Hi Flux II.

I got this mount to go with a Trustfire that runs a 1x18650. I was skeptical at first, but the light ain't coming out of there unless I pull it out. I doubt you could squeeze a 26650 light in there, though.

I went the flashlight route, upgrading to 18650 cells in the process, because the two other lights that I had (both 3xAAA) weren't cutting it. My light is rated just over 500 lumens, way brighter than the other two combined, but I'm back in the market for a front light. I'm night blind, so I need more light.

I've recently been doing the experimentation with lights as well. Flashlights didn't cut it.

I tried some name brand (Coast & Nebo) 200 lumen flashlights that use 3 AAA's. I mounted them alongside my 200 lumen Cygolite Pace to get 400 lumens and some redundancy. I really liked the beam pattern of the Coast PX-25, but the usable runtime was under an hour, and changing the batteries on the go was a hassle. The next thing I tried was an inexpensive 400+ lumen Ultrafire using 18650 Lion batteries. It worked for about 30 minutes then failed. I returned it to Amazon for a refund. I may try some other cheapies since I now have some 18650 batteries hanging around.

I finally invested in upgrading my 200 lumen Cygolite and bought a 400 lumen version of the same.

Why sweat the weight. Kinda silly. http://www.intl-outdoor.com/bike-lig...age=2&sort=20a

Mostly because the Cygolite is almost a pound altogether. When your bike weighs 33 pounds without anything loaded on it, you tend to want to NOT put any unnecessary pounds on it. Or at least that's my thinking. My bike's heavy enough as it is, without my lighting system add a lot more. At least we're mostly past the days of the 3 pound NiCad water-bottle batteries. Anyone remember those beasts?!

I bought both a Lezyne Super Drive, at 450 lumens, and a Keygos XML-U2 flashlight rated at 1000 lumens but more realistically at around 500-600. I can't say that the Lezyne at 2.5x the price is any better than the Keygos. Both are about the same size and weight, both throw off a lot of light considering I'm in NYC and you don't really need the lights to see. The mount for the Keygos holds it very tight without rattling, swapping batteries does not require more than opening it up pulling the dead one out and putting the fresh one in, and charging is on the unit itself. The Lezyne uses a usb charger, convenient in that it will charge from any computer by just plugging it in. Both take a single 18650 battery. Neither are very heavy. The Lezyne mount is only better because it is specifically made for the light, whereas the Keygos is a generic mount. Neither rattle.

If you are riding for hours on end in the dark, you need something more as you'll be replacing batteries all the time. If you are riding home on a commute for an hour, either of these work just fine without adding much weight or bulk to the bike.

If you want to learn some things, and might be willing to spend some money to get a relatively high-end light, I recommend you look over what Peter White Cycles offers:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/lightingsystems.htm

I'm saving up for one of these:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp

but I already bought a sidewall dynamo from him and I like it A LOT:

http://affordableluxuryblog.com/2010...cle-generator/

The issue with the flashlights is that if you have to swap batteries...which may not be necessary but you should always plan ahead...you risk dropping parts in the dark. We all have fumble fingers and it gets worse in the cold. Fumble the endcap of your flashlight out on the side of the road or on a trail and you may never find it. If that is your only light...you should always have at least 2 by, again, planning ahead...you are now in the dark. Even if you wait to change the battery under a street lamp, it's easy to drop the cap and have it bounce out of sight. A separate battery pack solves those problems.

In my experience, the external battery pack lights run only slightly longer but they put out more light. I usually find the run time of the LED light I've used to be far less than advertised. That said, more light for about the same amount of money is always better.

I don't get up to Fort Collins much. But I do find that the Magicshine and their...um...competitors, are good lights for road riding and, especially, off-road riding around here. For urban riding, most people think that they can get by with a little light as possible but the opposite is actually the case. Get as much light as you can for riding with cars at night. You may be able to see the road with the street lights but that's not the point. You want the motorists to see you and that means getting your lights out of the background with overwhelming photonic output. Luckily, the current crop of LED lights from China do that very well for extremely cheap.

This isn't really a fair comparison.

Flashlight steps :

Remove flashlight from holder
Remove back of flashlight
Shake battery out
Put new battery in
Put back back on
Put back in holder

Wired bike light steps :

Unplug light from battery pack
Remove battery pack from bike
Put new battery pack on bike
* note that the previous two steps may be non-trivial.
Plug light back into pack

Now, if you have your spare battery pack mounted somewhere so you really can just plug it in, that's fine -- but really, if you can do this, you can just have a second flashlight mounted too ready to go with even less effort and the same space taken.

This does get more complicated if your light uses multiple batteries (be it wired or flashlight) but the ones that most of us use use a single battery or single battery pack.

Personally, I don't just carry spare batteries -- I have a spare light or two. You never know what'll happen. Ideally, I've got at least two lights mounted on the bike ready to be turned on at any time.

Removing the flashlight from holder isn't a real problem. Removing the back of the flashlight is where things can start to go wrong. It's a small threaded part that is usually black. You now have two parts that you have to keep track of. You shake out the battery. You now have 3 parts that you have to keep track of. You get out your new battery which gives you 4 parts to keep track of. Damn! You fumble the end cap. Now you only have 3 parts to keep track of but one of them is somewhat hypercritical.

You can't really do the same thing with an external battery pack. If you drop the pack, it's larger and less likely to roll off into another dimension.

Sure you can carry multiple lights and only run one. Personally, if I'm going to carry an extra light, I'm going to make it work for it's ride. I also carry enough batteries to get me through the commute in and the commute home. If I need, I can actually run 2 battery packs in parallel to extend my range. You can't do that with a flashlight. It only carries one battery and has to be disassembled to replace that battery.

Every part of your light setup is "hypercritical" (unless you have a spare light, of course. As you probably should.) The only part you can afford to lose in either situation is your old battery.

I think you've exaggerated the difficulty of changing the battery in a single cell flashlight by a large margin. Certainly, in the real world, it's not difficult at all, even in relative darkness. Maybe it gets a bit worse if you're somewhere cold and are wearing gloves, but you'd have similar problems with your battery pack too.

(It does get a good deal worse if you have one of those lights with a holder inside the light and that holder holds 3xAAA batteries. I'm not a fan of such lights.)

(And if you really are in pitch darkness, carry the flashlight behind your bike so it's illuminated by your taillight and swap the batteries there.)

I can see where cyccommute is coming from in terms of the disassembling issue in regards to the flashlights. I like that a flashlight on a bike can be used as, well, a flashlight. However, I think I'm going to buy one of the Chinese Magicshine knock-offs since they get stellar reviews on Amazon, and I'll back it up with a smaller 18650-powered flashlight for mounting on the helmet. My commute home is rarely more than one hour and much of it is fairly well lighted so I can get away with lower wattage settings for the areas when I'm on a MUP and away from traffic, bumping up to high settings when I'm on the dark sections of the MUP and when I'm out in traffic and want to be seen. I can acquire extra batteries and battery packs later to have for those occasions when I might be out later and might need to switch out batteries. Anyway, thanks for all the input folks.

Colleen - thanks also for this information. It's good to read input from someone who's owned the same light and is able to compare it with the current crop of higher lumen LED lights. It sounds like a combo of the bar-mounted bike-specific light and a helmet-mounted flashlight (18650), should be a good set up for my commute. Now I just need to decide whether I need two of the bike-specific lights, so I can have one on my commuter/tourer and one on my longtail cargo bike. I could probably get away with one light and swap it back and forth, but I have a feeling I'll take one bike to work one day and forget when I'm leaving in the dark that I left the light at home on the other bike. Probably best to just get two, eh?

You should definitely check out The Cygolite Expilion lights. I have the 350 lumen one and its insanely bright with multiple levels of adjustment, you can swap the battery with extras on longer rides, and water resistant. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o01_s00_i00 Also to swap the battery you just twist (half turn), pull out the battery then insert the new one and twist that one in.

Run times:

• Two hours on "boost"
• Three hours on high
• Six hours on medium
• 13.5 hours on low
• 24 hours on flash

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=275354 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=275353

Are you likely to drop parts of a flashlight? Probably not. But it can, and does, happen. There is no part of an external battery light that can be dropped. You don't take the lights apart, only disconnect the plug. That's not all that hard and you can't really drop anything that makes the light nonfunctional because you haven't taken anything apart. I have had wires disconnect but that can be repaired at home. Lose the end cap of a flashlight and it is trash.

I have, do and will always suggest that anyone who rides at night carry at least one backup light. I also suggest that everyone use two headlight sources. I do so because I believe that you can't have too much light and I also know that stuff happens. I've crashed and lost the use of not one, not 2 but three lights...sheared off the mounts on my bars and my helmet. I was able to limp home with my backup. And the only reason that I had my backup was because I started carrying one after doing a Gilligan's Island on Hermosa Creek in southern Colorado.

Well, except for the old or new battery pack. (I'll assume you don't remove the light head to change the battery, which is probably a reasonable assumption.)

Unless you have both battery packs mounted simultaneously, in which case the appropriate comparison is somebody with two flashlights mounted simultaneously and therefore also has nothing to drop when switching lights.

If you're looking for advantages of one over the other, "fewer parts to drop" is a pretty minor one. (Unless it's a race and you can't afford to stop while you swap lights. Might be more important then.)

Back when the Fenix L2D was my main light I used the optional strap that came with it. It went through the tailcap and got wrapped up by the velcro strap that held the light in place, and I figured it would make it harder to loose the entire light if it came out the holder or the cap when I was changing batteries. Extra insurance that I don't think I ever needed, but it was reassuring when I was changing batteries under the streetlight.

I was debating this same thing for a while. I finally decided to go the MagicShine route. Not because of changing the battery on the road, but more for charging it between rides. My wife and I ride for 1 to 1.5 hours every morning, so I recharge the batteries every day. I find it much easier to just unplug the light head and plug in the charger. If this was for occasional use, I would probably have gone flashlights. I'm quite happy with my MJ-808E systems, though. Would do it again in a heartbeat.

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't come out in the night/dark with just 200 lums! :)

I run these, I get over an hour good runtime out of each one. Each one is capable of running the whole show. I carry a spare battery too.

BTW, the flashlights cost $20 each shipped. Mounts about $2 each..

26650(s)
http://www.cehoward.net/M10-00.jpg


http://www.cehoward.net/M10-98.jpg

On the helmet, 26650 too.

http://www.cehoward.net/helmetj56.jpg

these are 18650 lights.. Just as strong as the 26650s.. they burn a way through the night. :)


http://www.cehoward.net/ke5-663x.jpg

But, the biggest difference I seen in running strong lights is not only can I see, but I am seen big time.

In some instance, cars have waited while I was a half block away, until I pass before they turn. The respect I get in running these lights has to be seen...Truly.. ;)

Well, the 200 was my first really good light. Prior to that I was using a 3 LED light that was a good "be seen" model, so the 200 was unbelievably bright in comparison. 200 is now the minimum I will use. I'm now using a 400 and waiting for my helmet mount to arrive for the 200.

Still see lots of people using a $20 be-seen light, or nothing at all. Well, the ones with nothing I only see once they are about 10 feet away. Maybe.