I'm light shopping to replace my Exposure Diablo, which is a nice small size 1200 lumen light. It's always bothered me though that it is only good for about 2.5-3 hours using a combination of low/medium power, and if I use high it will give me about 1 hour at the most.

so, I'm looking now at the Exposure Six Pack Mk5, rated at 3200 lumens. It works 36 hours on low, which is comparable to low of my current light. This would cover any ride I'll ever do, and having the 3200 lumens available for a minimum of 2 hours sounds like a huge plus, but brings the question:

Is 3200 lumens so many that it's not even usable? I think the standard car headlight is ~1000

the light in question: Six Pack MK5 | Ultimate Sports Engineering

Nominal output of an arc discharge headlamp is 3200 Lumens +/- 15%.

Yes, but it's a shaped beam with only a small amount of the light going where it will bother someone.

If the bike light in question is a shaped beam then 3200 lumens would be fine, though probably vast overkill. If it's just a conical beam then it's probably way too much and could easily blind oncoming drivers.

Car lights are closer to 1500 lumens and they have two of them. Also be aware that the light you are looking at may put out 3200 lumens but that's 6 emitters putting out 600 lumens apiece. It has the same light output as a 3200 lumen light but it won't have the same throw, i.e. distance as a coherent beam, as a single emitter putting out 3200 lumens. It will be like a large floodlight but not much of a spotlight which will make the light more defuse.

I'm not sure what light you guys are talking about. Arc discharge lamps have lumen outputs all over the map and their shape depends on the optics. The 15kW arc lamp in an Imax projector puts out 600,000 lumens.

If you are talking about HID bicycle lights, I've never seen one that had a 3200 lumen output...they were more like 1000 lumens... and the ones I have seen were never shaped other than a conical reflector.

light in question is linked in the original post.

That light isn't an "arc discharge" lamp. The light you linked to is a light emitting diode which is an entirely different technology and principle from an arc lamp.

I'm not sure what light jdavis and ItsJustMe are talking about.

ItsJustMe mentioned that a car headlamp is 1000 Lumens, but the arc discharge lamps are ~3200 Lumens for a D1S used in car headlamps.

I don't think there is any specific shape output since you can put those D1S and D2S bulbs in any car regardless of what bulb the headlamps were designed for.

It really depends on what the purpose of the 3200 lumens is to be used. 3200 lumens from that Six Pack will be fine out for the MTB but 3200 from the six pack will be a little much out on the road. A lot of those lumens will wasted shining above the horizon if you have the light aim for maxium distant throw. If you aim it down toward the ground, then the frontal area in front of your bike will be so bright that your eyes will adjust where the distant objects will appear dark.

I mod a 3 x XML direct drive flashlight to be used as a bike light. The lumens was well above 2400 and car kept flashing the lights at me. I even had the cop flicker their door mounted spotlight toward me. My initial thought was the reflector design was giving off way too much spill. So then I used a 4 x XML 2800 lumens bike light that used optic instead of reflector, Reason being that optics gives off a much better and smoother beam than reflector. The result was the same.

If you desire a light for road biking which will give you close range brightness and distant illumination then I think your best bet will be using two different light that has different beam pattern such as one for flood and one spot for distant. You can do wonder shining the road using less lumens by utilizing better efficient bam pattern.

Standard care headlights are around 1300 lumens. So two headlights puts out 2600 lumens. When the lights are on hi beams, it's considerably more. I think that any bike putting out that much is not too bright anymore than it would be too bright for a car.

What works really well for me riding on winding and hilly country roads is a Lupine Wilma that can go to a max of about 2400 lumens on the bars and a Lupine Piko at 1200 lumens on my helmet. I set the Wilma for about 1500 lumens and then go to full bright for fast descents. I'll even go lower (about 1000 lumens) for long slow climbs. The Wilma has a wider beam than the Piko so I can use that to add to the light in front or to look into a corner as I approach it. That means I'm putting out 2700 lumens or just about what a set of car headlights do.

Properly aimed, none of these are too bright or even brighter than what a car would do. The light puts out a cone with the apex at the light. If you aim the cone down, it's bisected by the road as a plane. If you aim it down a degree more than half the spread at the apex, you won't be wasting lumens. All of them will eventually hit the road.

The Wilma has a 26 degree beam so aiming it down at around 13 degrees (a very slight downward angle) puts little the light in the trees (there is some side spill and reflection off the road, of course) but puts a nice long and gradually wider lighted area on the pavement and primarily in my lane. There is a nice spill of light from the handlebars forward that is just about perfect. I'd say it's very similar to what a car would do with it's headlights. I have the Piko aimed so that when I'm riding head up normally, it will extend out a bit farther than the Wilma. As for batteries, Lupine has a lot of choices for just about any runtime needed. With my 6Ah battery, I get pretty close to 3 hours out of one full charge on the Wilma.

The other advantage to the headlamp is I can more easily see wildlife on the side of the road. I can look at the ditches and the edge of the woods. It's prevented me from having a collision with multiple deer and many raccoons. Both of us, appreciate that.

Unfortunately, here in Minnesota, I can't really use the headlight as much as I would like to until after we get a hard freeze because there are just too many bugs that key in on the headlight. But it's easy to turn on and off so that is not much of a problem.

J.

thank you for all the responses. I had a 20% off postcard in the mail today from competitive cyclist, which I take as a sign that I should buy a light, but they do not carry the six pack, only the smaller brother MaXx-D. This is rated for 2400 lumens which is only double my Diablo.

I'm concerned that these lights will not properly light the road without blinding drivers, rendering it a downgrade from my Diablo. Any guesses on that situation?

It will be fine. Aim it properly. If you have a problem, it has a dim setting too.

I've been riding with these lights or similar lights just as bright for the last 4 years and it's just not a problem. I've only heard positive comments from other drivers and I haven't had any of them flash their brights at me except when I've had my Wilma on at the max setting. That would roughly translate into lights brighter than typical road lights not on high in a car.

You could ride with the Diablo on the helmet (they have a killer helmet mount, IIRC) and the main light on the bars. Would be a nice set up.

J.

I like the way you talk. I actually have the helmet mount and I feel as though these two lights together would be about as ideal a set up as I could imagine.

Probably going to fire on it tomorrow.

I just got a 1200 lumen Bright Eyes light two weeks ago, and, though it's an awesome light, I don't think it's as bright as a car headlamp. Or, rather, it may be comparable in terms of luminous intensity (amount of light emitted in any given direction near the center of the beam), but it has a narrower beam.

Whether 3600 is overkill or not, that depends on a number of factors. There's directionality. A light that delivers 3600 lumens into a well-shaped beam that can be pointed on the ground is OK; a light that sends 3600 lumens every which way, with a good fraction of it above the horizon, is not. With a 3600 lumen light, weight and charge time would be major issues. My 1200 lumen light is powered by 4 18650 lithium-ion batteries, resulting in a pretty chunky battery pack, and takes something like 8 hours to charge with a dedicated charger. A true 3600 would be 3 times heavier and would either take even longer to charge, or would require some pretty heavy-duty charging equipment that could pour 3x the charge into the pack in the same amount of time.

Sounds like a very different setup. The exposure stuff is all self contained and the light is about 300g. It will charge overnight and I only ride 1x a day anyhow.

There is pretty much a 1:1 relationship between the weight of the pack and the run time at any given light output (since everyone has access to the same Li-ion batteries and the same LEDs.) Looks like it's a general trend with Exposure lights to use powerful LEDs but relatively underpowered battery packs, resulting in short run time at full power. In my current light, the battery pack alone weighs 200 g, and it lasts ~3 hrs at high power (web data - haven't personally measured this.) If Exposure Six Pack weighs 300g total, I don't think you're going to get much more than 1.5 hours at 3200 lumens.

On the other hand, 1.5 hours at 3200 equals 15 hours at 320, and having enough juice to last 15 hours at 320 is good enough by itself. My previous light was rated at 300 and you can ride just fine at that level (though obviously you won't see any crack in the pavement 200 feet forward.)

I thought we were comparing to a car's arc headlight. They may be 3200 lumens but it's a shaped beam and should not be taken as evidence that running any old light that puts out 3200 lumens on the road is acceptable.

Actually bmcphx mentioned "normal" car headlights. But I see where you were going now.

Six vs one emitter says nothing about the net resultant beam or "throw" in the far field, and none are coherent in the optical/physics sense. For example, take 6 individual 600 lumen bike lights closely spaced and aim all at a the same distant point. You'll get effectively the same beam as with one but with 6x more lumens and 6x more lux.

My old Light&Motion HID light had around 700 lumens and what had looked light a lumpy parabolic reflector. The parabolic part defined the beam and lumps provided scatter to provide good close in and side illumination.

Yeah.

Also, see my recent answer in another thread on almost the same subject, including pics and bike lights with shaped beams -
https://www.bikeforums.net/electronic...l#post17257365

Also, fyi - have you heard of dynamo lights? They're more expensive than the cheap battery lights, but your light was listed as $250 on amazon so it sounds like you might be near the price range. They put a magnet in the hub, and use it to generate power. I creates miniscule drag, but it's to low to even notice while riding. Cost is between $245, $325, $400, or more if you really want to, all depends on model. But you never, ever have to worry about battery issues again. No charging, no battery going bad, no forgetting to charge it, no worries about the ride going to long, no reduction in battery life in cold weather, they're waterproof - they're like the headlights on your car they just always work and you don't even consider charging them or forgetting them at home when you need them. And since they use LED's rather than halogen now, the bulb (effectively) never burns out.

10 years ago they were crap and I would never recommend them. But in the last 10 years improvements in led lighting and beam shape make them excellent, putting out all the light you'd need for road riding (in my opinion, and the opinion of many other people).

Here's a pic of the Schmidt Edelux II, the best one you can buy right now. Real life it would look this bright in the woods, but not on the street, but I have the previous model and the light output is good for the street. It has a shaped beam like a car headlight so it's as good for avoiding blinding anyone as a light can possibly be, and it has an even shaped beam with a lot of punch down the road and even lighting that's the best for actually seeing at night (similar battery versions are available to) -


If you're interested in more info let me know. Their are reason not to get them - they cost more money, you have multiple bikes so they cost even more money to outfit each bike with one, or you have a lightweight wheel you don't want to add any weight to. But I think they're fantastic, it's so great to completely remove battery life and charging as a problem. The drag is imperceptible, and theoretically any loss of time in drag I feel that I far make up for spending charging lights. I own about $1500 in battery lighting, and the only lights that work better than this are wide beams that are to bright to ride without blinding people (partially because of the pointedly wide beam on the high priced battery lights).

dude, i'm not going to do a magnetic light. I'm not a commuter, I don't need to get into all sorts of permanently attached stuff.

Dude, you're asking for free advice on the internet. If you don't want it, just pass it up. Chill out.

I didn't imagine that would come across as me being worked up, and I'm certainly not, just saying that I'm not going to wrap all sorts of wires and magnetic charging systems all over my bike.

Edit: Accidental duplicate post.