cyccommute 

I can't speak to your experiences nor personal perceptions either. However, I doubt your personal experiences reflect those of the "average person".

As for people using lights intentionally in an aggressive manner and detailing it here on the Bike Forums, that I don't believe at all. I've been on these forums for about 10 years longer than you have and, although I haven't read everything posted, I've read an awful lot of it. People with helmet lights may use them to warn a driver who is inattentive but you'll not find too many people who shine their lights into the eyes of motorists just for giggles.

I keep a eye on the market and I can't find anything that matches what you are considering a "good light"...i.e. shaped beam...for much less than $100 and certainly nothing in the $50 range.

"Blind" is a strong word. I see on-coming bicycle lights all the time and I've never been "blinded". That's one of the problems...semantics

The other problem is that we are talking about a niche market. A niche market that has been severely undercut by an inexpensive product that offers the same output for a whole lot less than the premium product. The product could certainly be made better but you aren't going to make it better at a price point that is less than a very poor product...aka "be seen" lights. When I can get a light for $20 that far outperforms a $45 "be seen" light how is anyone going to make money by introducing a $200 light.

noglider 

OK, I can switch from using the word "blind" to "hurting my eyes and distracting me from the road with that pain." Is that better? I feel as if you're telling me it's not a problem for me. If you are, let me tell you, you don't have my permission to tell me what annoys me.

The "magic" of shaped beams is the optics. Are all of these reflectors patented? It seems to me that one could be made for a reasonable price. I agree that $160 is not a good entry level price point. I worked in a bike shop for six weeks this past summer. Customers asked me which lights we sold were both good and inexpensive. My answer was none. Of course, this says I'm a bad salesman as much as it says about the market. I acknowledge that it's a niche market. Not enough would appreciate what a good shaped beam is to create a big enough market for it. It's a shame, in my view.

The title of this thread says that some very bright lights are annoying. It is a statement of fact.

kickstart

It seems some people tend to be "blinded" by their own brightness, and can't see beyond themselves.

V73

Most sensible thing in this thread. To each his own, don't feel obliged to spend lots on a specifically shaped light but don't be a jerk either.

Personally I find that almost any light(s) can be made to work without being obnoxious, with a little ingenuity and testing.
-V

cyccommute 

Are they distracting you from the "road" or from the trail? I acknowledge that the MagicShine type lights aren't a good fit for trails. I also have stated that lights like you use aren't a good fit for trails. On a roadway, neither light is going to be a problem for cars and especially not for other bicyclists because of where we bicyclists ride on a roadway. To reiterate, if you have a narrow beam that is intense, you don't have enough spread to cause other users problems and if you have a wide beam that spreads the light wider, you don't have enough intensity.

It's also a statement of fact that the products that you and others are asking for aren't very widely available. And, yes, many of the types of refectors you guys want are patented. Or they are much more difficult to make than you think. Look at the Specialized Flux. They have a lot of money sunk into the design of the product and want to get a return on their money. Unfortunately, like others before them, they aren't going to sell many units at $275 a pop. Not many units sold means not much money made and there's no driver for future development. I just don't see a light with highly engineered optics sold for what you can get a MagicShine light for in the near (or even distant) future. There's just no market for them.

There's more than one kind of blindness.

The nice thing about lights is that you can see where they are shining. People say that "half of the light from the cheap Chinese lights gets sprayed into the trees" all the time. That simply isn't true if you actually look at where your light is going. Deflected down were the light actually does some good, the lights spray a little of their light above the handlebars but certainly not "half". Not even 1/4 if you do it properly.

Yes, there are some ignorant people out there that don't know how to aim their lights. Unless they are completely clueless, they soon catch on that they are carrying around a useless light and re-aim it.

noglider 

Stuart, I take your word for it that the reflectors are patented and hard to make or design. I agree with the rest of what you say. I hope eventually that the market produces what we desire.

For what it's worth, I bought a B&M Ixon Core for about $60 from xxcycle.com in France. Buying from a French site isn't for everyone, but the price is reasonable. It's a decent light, is battery powered, and has a shaped beam that complies with German law. Conceivably, a U.S. importer could sell them here.

01 CAt Man Do

Wow, been a while since I've posted here and it never ceases to amaze me that people still want to argue about how ( overly ) bright bike lights are ( supposedly ) annoying when riding or driving on the road. The only thing I'm going to add at this point is that I still have not seen any cyclist using bike lights that have been annoying to me. ( I should add here that I drive at night for a living in mostly urban environments and see cyclist riding at night all the time. )

In the mean time I get annoyed by many overly bright car, truck and bus lights all the time. Compared to them the best bike lights are mere momentary distractions while driving down the road. And while speaking of annoying lights while driving I believe the King of all Annoyances is now the strobing lights used on both Police and tow trucks. Most of those have now been upgraded to Super bright and are so bright that you actually have to back off a couple tenths just to keep your sanity. If I can deal with those suckers I can deal with any cyclist using an 800 lumen bike lamp, regardless of the beam pattern, to ride down a road.

noglider 

Well, I can't claim it happens often, but occasionally, someone runs a headlight that seem to be aimed at my eyes and is very annoying to me. Of course, what annoys one person is not troublesome to others. That's what makes the world go 'round.

kickstart

When one takes those who are hyper sensitive and those who are unaffected out of the equation, it's mostly nothing more than a fleeting minor annoyance that happens on once in a while, but like the hostile motorist, blazers are out there.
Overt acts of stupidity and selfishness just happen to stand out in our memories, and it's common enough that the SPD does courtesy patrols to educate blazers, and give donated lights to ninjas.

EvilWeasel

If you're pissed over my lights it means you've seen me. Mission accomplished. I win. Sorry about your feelings and retinas.

10 Wheels

I have never seen a bright light on the road that I could Not look away from it til it passes.

01 CAt Man Do

Hey Tom, how are you. Hope the holidays were good to you. Yeah, always going to be something to annoy, no way to get around that I guess. Heck, every time get behind the wheel I have to deal with it. I actually thought about buying a set of those amber type lenses to snap onto my glasses. They're suppose to cut back on the glare but who knows if that really works. Whatever...life goes on.

I going out right now to test a nice little lamp the Xeccon people gave me. It's called the Link. Total output only about 300 lumen. Should make a nice little self-contained USB commuter type lamp. Got to get outside before it gets too cold so I can test it out.

runner pat

The Dangers Of Night Driving Glasses

JohnJ80

Good article. Found this quote interesting:

" If glare from headlights is a problem, the first step should be a thorough eye examination, as this could be an early indication of cataracts or other medical conditions."

01 CAt Man Do

@runner pat: Thanks for the article. Keep in mind the internet is full of articles from a variety of sources that will give opinions on any number of subjects. If this was from a more reliable source I might be more inclined to take it a bit more seriously. In the mean time the net is full of ads selling various types of supposed, "Night enhancing" optical devices. No doubt they sell these things to many people. As far as I know there are no laws banning such devices.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that these so called, "night glasses" are going to work. I'm just saying I'm willing to spend $10-$14 to make the judgement myself. If I find that using them actual does enhance my night vision in certain situations then no doubt I'll use them when I feel the need to remove some glare. If not, well then I threw some money away and learned something new.

Personally not worried about the cataract thing. Besides I'll be getting my glasses replaced before the month is out and will have a routine examination. No doubt my vision has changed a little in the last 10yrs. Likely the lenses will be changed to help me see distance a little better. Likely also the AR coating on my old lenses is old and worn a bit. New lenses with new AR coating should help me see better at night.

kickstart

Forcing others to take their eyes off the road to assuage ones insecurities is irrational and unnecessary, that's why most people don't do it, so why make excuses for those who do?

noglider 

This is the source of the problem, as I see it. First, it should not be about winning and losing. Let's all be safe, not at each other's expenses. Second, is there no limit to what you are willing to use so that I see you? A thousand lumens? A million lumens? How about physical assault? I'm sure you can define some limit, which invalidates what you've said. It's possible for us to be safe without costing or hurting each other. At least I believe so. Do you believe otherwise?

There are laws prohibiting motor vehicle drivers from using high beams within a certain distance. Should they be repealed? If not, why not?

Diablito

I face my light out about 20 feet out to the ground. If anybody looks into my light then I can't really do anything for that. Its in human nature for people to look right into a light haha. The curiosity over comes them. I have to be able to see any upcoming potholes. Other riders have to understand.

JohnJ80

If you're looking at the headlight of the opposing vehicle, you absolutely already have your eyes off the road unless you intend to drive right into the opposing vehicle's front grill. That's exactly what you are not supposed to do. Driver training has always been to look at where you are going (eyes on the road ahead) and to not look directly into the headlights of oncoming vehicles. It is not a big deal to not look at the lights of opposing traffic. In point of fact, it is proper night time driving technique.

10Wheels, correct me if I have misstated your intent.

J.

cyccommute 

I'm with you so far. I'd add that overt acts of stupidity and selfishness are relatively rare. Ignorance is more common (but also rare) hence the patrols by the Seattle Police. Based on my experience with other cyclists, I suspect that they give out more lights then they educate "blazers".

And we're back to the old "everyone is intentionally blinding me" thing again. To quote you "...it's mostly nothing more than a fleeting minor annoyance". Why are you making such a mountain out of a mole hill?

There is no need to "make excuses" for something that is rare and, by your own admission, a minor annoyance.

01 CAt Man Do

Just the other day I decided to check into Bike Forums just to see if anything new was really happening. Once again I see a thread ( this one ) with the usual people bantering back and forth discussing the issues of, " How new LED bike lights are blinding and/or annoying people who happen to see them". As usual, a lot of people disagree ( including me ) with a few taking the side of the OP.

Well I hate to say this but after over 245 posts it looks like everyone missed the fact that the opening poster ( Bat 56 ) never did take part in the discussion and never attempted to back his own narrow pet-peevish point of view. His only response during the whole 240-some posts was to Znomit who joked about the OP's reference to , "Studs" and that it must not involve women, yadda, yadda,yadda... all very funny. This joke invoked a one word response from the OP. Sad it is when someone starts a stupid thread with the intent to just sit back and let other people rant on about all the pros and cons of the subject at hand. To me, I find this utterly disgusting. If this person really cared about what he wrote in the OP he would have tried to argue his case with the people who disagreed. To me it's very obvious that this thread was just started by someone who just intended to stir up trouble. This type of person is also referred to by another name. That said, Bat 56, you are now dubbed, "Troll 56".

noglider 

Why do you suppose we have laws limiting the use of high beams on cars?

noglider 

@01 CAt Man Do, we haven't had a chance to respond to the original poster, but a lot of people have said things dumb enough to merit responses.

JohnJ80

Why do you suppose that we do not have a massive number of car crashes due to headlights being on?

JohnJ80

That's true.