Below; Said by me about a year ago

Seeker333 response below:

Update response: I'm still thinking about the idea of turning a high powered bike light backward on my helmet ( as I mentioned before ) in order to draw attention on a really dangerous road in the daytime. Just a couple weeks ago I received a Gemini Duo ( with wireless remote ) for review purposes. Since I've been using it on the helmet along with the included 2-cell battery it occurred to me I could very easily reverse the mount and battery set-up and turn the lamp backward set on slow flash.

The updated Duo-R is now has close to a 1500 lumen output. There is also a very nice "slow flash" mode that is very easy to access when using the lamp. In the state of Maryland ( where I live ) it is now very common place to see bright white strobes being used on the rear roof panels of both School and commuter buses. These white flashing strobes are very visible from the rear but are also omni-directional.

The way I figure it, "Good for the goose, good for the Gander". Since the Duo-R uses a wireless remote I could also very easily turn it on and off without even having to remove my hands from the bars. I also have some pieces of translucent amber plastic sitting around so if I wanted to I could very easy make an amber lens for the lamp. Tonight just for the heck of it I cut out a lens just to see what it might look like. Even with the added lens it is still bright as all get-out. I suppose I could also make a red lens for it but likely the darker colored lens would cut down much more of the output. Anyway, can't wait to try this outside in the day just to see what it looks like at distance.

Of course I have no need at the moment to use the lamp in this fashion but it's an interesting option if I ever decide to commute on the dangerous road that I mentioned before. For my night time road rides I'm now still using two lamps; the Performance Axiom on the seat post but have now chosen to use the Gemini IRIS for my rear helmet light ( formerly used the Cygolite Hotshot on the lid ). The IRIS has a much wider beam pattern than the Hotshot so it should make an excellent helmet lamp. Output on the IRIS can be varied ( programmable ) five ways ( from 10-30-50-100-180 lumen ). Run time on the 100 lm level is listed as two hours so the highest ( 180 ) output is likely not going to see much use.

Last weekend on a group ride I saw one cyclist using a combo red/white very bright flasher on the rear. Didn't distract me and made the bike very visible during the night ride. But some folks seem to be more sensitive than others to bright flashers. My idea of a bright flasher would be what emergency vehicles use - I haven't seen any bike light nearly as bright as a police car, ambulance or fire truck emergency flashers. And we cope with those.

I don't cope with the latest LED emergency lights at all. They're absolutely blinding on dark roads to the point that I squint while passing.

Now that you mention it, a few nights ago I noticed some emergency vehicle lights that were unusually bright. I can see how those might be distracting, especially for folks like my mom who has cataracts and poor night vision. Those flashers don't need to be that bright to be seen, and I don't see how they're useful as to-see lights for emergency response personnel.

Anyway, I wouldn't use white lights on the rear of a bike, even mixed with red. Too easy for an approaching vehicle to confuse a bicycle with a car's reverse lights and misjudge the closing speed. The typical 50-300 lumen red steady/flashers seem plenty bright enough to be seen, even in traffic with distractions.

I've found it more helpful to elevate the rear lights than make 'em brighter. Add red lights to the rear of the helmet, clipped onto a backpack, back of the jacket/jersey, or on a trunk bag. Gives vehicles a better chance of seeing the lights in traffic. During nighttime group rides I've noticed bikes with rear red lights only on the bikes themselves -- on the rear rack or lower -- can't be clearly seen in traffic because some cars physically block the view. But if the cars can see the rider's helmet or torso, they can see a red light mounted higher.

I ended up behind a cyclist with an extremely bright tail light doing the chilly hilly ride, it was a dark, rainy day, and I wear glasses, it made it virtually impossible for me to see through the kaleidoscope of brightly illuminated raindrops.

Good point. It hasn't rained much here recently and I don't need glasses for riding, so I probably wouldn't notice. But I'm planning to start wearing safety glasses full time, after some near misses with gravel being shucked like bullets by passing vehicles.

This personal strobe (marine) is rated at 260 lumens in strobe mode and 80 in steady mode.

Which would meet the "serious light" criterion. May not be legal and is not red.

As others have suggested, I'd probably avoid riding in such an area. OTOH, it's an interesting challenge.

You could consider using a rear view mirror and install a trigger to alert overtaking drivers if circumstances warrant, using a very serious light for a very short time (think blinking lights on top of antennas intended to warn pilots, or lighthouses)

If you really want to go overboard, look at marine searchlights. If I am not mistaken you'll find some rated in the thousands of lumens. Naturally, they might constitute a (criminal?) road hazard.

(see a review here. One is listed at 2000 lumens.

OBVIOUSLY you will not want to train this kind of light on incoming traffic, BUT pointed upwards, a short burst cannot go unseen, even by someone scanning tinder at the wheel.

This is the point I was making in another reply, suggesting very short bursts of serious light at longish intervals.

You are absolutely right in pointing out that always on powerful lights are a hazard

It may depend. When I see a cyclist having lights on their helmet, it looks like a light from some poles in distance, unconnceted to the rider. On the other hand, when I have rear lights mounted on the lower part of the seatstays or the legs of the rear rack, they lighten the ground and produce a large (flashing) red area on the road that follows the bike; I suppose that helps with visibility (provided there is a taillight in higher position, too).

Cygolite hotshot plus wear a Proviz switch jacket (the Proviz jacket is made entirerly with reflective material on one side, and the other side is hi viz yellow for the daytime) ... (so at night, you wear it with the grey side facing out, and in the day, you wear it inside out)

If someone is driving at night and cannot see you when you wear the proviz jacket, they should not be driving. It makes you look like Casper the ghost and is highly visible. Amazing

http://www.provizsports.com/media/ca..._yellow_lr.jpg

http://www.provizsports.com/en_gb/ca.../category/156/

here are 2 videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etEozvmdJAA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpsCyI72RG0

Huntsville Teen Dies After SUV Crashes Into School Bus | Fort Smith/Fayetteville News | 5newsonline KFSM 5NEWS

I'd probably risk it myself and base my continued use on what I see. OTOH if drivers don't see a stopped school bus with flashing lights, do you think they will see you?

My theory is that the race for more and brighter lights for vehicles as well as street lighting overwhelms the drivers. As all of the individual lights compete for attention, it's hard to pick out what the lights represent. Bike lighting is especially tough because of the narrow separation between lights. This makes it hard for drivers to gauge closing speed. Two average lights at at least 15" apart will be much better than a single super light.

Good luck to you.

Looks like good products. Not too happy about their demo video featuring a stunt rider. Doesn't do any of us any good to glorify stunt riders tearing up infrastructure, riding across sculpture and riding where signs prohibit cyclists.

Valid point. I was thinking about how some motorcycles have rear lights with some separation, which helps drivers estimate size, approach speed, etc.

The widest points on my bike would be the rear rack supports -- only 6" to 8" -- and handlebar ends (24" at least) -- but perhaps enough to help lend some sense of proportion.

I see most people who use the Serfas Thunderbolt lights (a strip shaped light) place them vertically on seatstays. I recently found that placing them horizontally is much better, maybe because our two eyes are horizontally next to each other, also it widens the distance covered. The only thing is to be sure to place them in such a way as not to touch the wheel (e.g. at some angle 30~45 degrees from rear). The same applies to when using them as front lights on the forks.

There are some completely oblivious drivers out there. But it's a bell curve. Just because some safety action you are considering won't help in every possible situation doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

You can't protect against this guy:

https://youtu.be/xQfK3HFaXFw

But you can improve your odds with the vast majority of drivers.

That's a really good point, [MENTION=40124]ItsJustMe[/MENTION]. It's a risk we all take, knowingly or not.

Canklecat ( whom you quoted ) had it right. The higher mount of the light helps the cyclist get seen when in heavy traffic. That said it also makes good sense to use a second light mounted either on the seatpost or on some other part of the bike at the same height.

Any ( steady ) light emitting source viewed from a distance at night will seem "disconnected" unless the person using it is also clad in lots of Hi-vis clothing or has the lamps using typical "flash patterns" that are usually associated with bike use.

IMO it's not that important that you can identify the light source with a type of user when viewed at distance. What is important is that the light is seen and the viewer knows that whatever is producing the light is something that he/she does not want to run into. I figure that's only common sense. Of course it helps if the light also emits a "bike related" flash pattern because that WILL help alert the approaching driver that "there is a bike somewhere ahead".

Case in point; I had a car come up beside me on a night road ride last year and the guy driving the car winds down his window and tells me he could see my rear light a half mile away. At the time I was using a very bright 200 lumen Xeccon single emitter red flashing light on the seat post. The guy told me from a distance he thought I was an ambulance on the side of the road. I figure it's not important what he thought I was at distance. I got seen and no one is going to ( knowingly ) run into something that looks like an ambulance. :thumb:

It's not a good idea to judge how well a piece of preventative safety equipment works based on
isolated accounts of total failure. Most people are never going to hit a school bus but there is always going to be a situation somewhere where someone just does the unthinkable while behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. It happens. As a cyclist no matter how safe you think you might be you're still just a person on the side of the road pedaling a bike that is completely "Defenseless" when it comes to the possibility of collision from the inattentive ( or incapacitated ) driver.

I'm sure the driver of the SUV in the accident could see fine. Likely a case of totally distracted driving. Sad story. That said, like everyone else who rides a bike on the road, the distracted ( or incapacitated ) driver is my greatest fear. If you ride on the road you can only hope you're never in the right place ( side of the road ) at the wrong time.

Guy in a truck pulled over ahead of us yesterday and flagged us down - turned out he wanted to know which tailight I was using and he wanted one. Design Shine DS 500 is one impressive tail light.

For $229, it better be.

especially when you pay in Australian Dollars plus postage - it's the Aussie Tax! Getting hit from behind would be far more expensive.:thumb:

This ... have you considered MOVING?

I'm sure some have. You and I are lucky in that we've been able to move to where cycling is enjoyable and practical. Not everyone can do that, since they have to optimize their lives by other criteria, such as where employment and family are.

Category; opportunity costs....

Sure, sure. But I hope you realize that other people have different costs and priorities and won't come to the same conclusions or solutions as you will. When that happens, it's not because they haven't thought it through.

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7640/1...40ecda9f_z.jpgLED Bicycle Headlights by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8714/1...b0cddb19_z.jpgLED Bicycle Headlights by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

The SMV (Slow Moving Vehicle) Sign, (a.k.a. Farm Triangle), with red LED accent strips... on two of my bikes. Runs day and night.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1532/2...988753d7_z.jpgIMG_4159 by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

I generally get 99% of motorists to pass me with seven to ten feet of clearance, I think that's an indicator that it works.

What the last post by Hotbike points out is that it is not just the intensity of the light but also the size of the lighted area that makes for an effective tail light at night. It seems to be exactly the opposite during the day when a compact but intense light works better. I've seen the "arms race" for more powerful lights get to the point where you almost need to take out a bank loan to afford some of them. Just being brighter isn't always the answer.

I've been using a pair of DIY lightsticks on a recumbent trike mounted vertically on the frame behind my head. There are 78 individual red LEDs wound around each 11" long plastic tube. It's visible from every direction but since it is behind me, the strobe mode isn't distracting. Depending on how you power it with three 18650 Li-ion batteries or lithium polymer battery pack, the cost can be from less than $15 to about $25. The run time between charges is more than 8 hours on strobe mode.

Some roads are just too dangerous to ride day or night. If it is not the distracted motorist it could be somebody who doesn't have enough space to get around you but tries to do so anyway.

Yes, some roads are dangerous, no doubt about that. Personally I try to stay away from roads that allow passing, have vehicles moving over 40 mph and have little to no shoulder. On the other hand I'll ride those same roads if it's the time of day ( or night ) when traffic is very low.

Yep, I've had a person do that to me before and indeed that type of behavior is a great threat. The people who do that sort of thing are usually the kind of people that most law-abiding people will refer to as xxx-wipes.

Wearing HiViz, using lights, and reflective materials to the bike and luggage, and avoiding sharing the road with motorized vehicles wherever and whenever possible seems to be the best we can do.

I have two hi viz vests and can't bring myself to wear either of them. I think I've worn one once.

It's a great idea but the cheap, inflexible plastic fit is a no go. I just don't like it. I don't know why. It's super inexpensive but integrated reflective material on a jacket seems like a far superior solution, although those jackets cost a fortune usually.