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My fatbike needs more studs ... the one on the bike isn't enough

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My fatbike needs more studs ... the one on the bike isn't enough

Old 12-27-16, 11:00 AM
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My fatbike needs more studs ... the one on the bike isn't enough

So the drop-bar Pug has dropped me a couple times (OK, more times than I'd like to admit) and I'm looking to get some studded tires.

Two questions:
1) Besides the Dillinger, what other options are there?
2) My Pug has a Moonie fork, is there any advantage to a 5" tire on the front with a 4" on the rear?

Experience & reviews welcomed and thank you for helping me minimize the number of fallen angels I leave along my path!

Here's the war rig:

IMG_20160408_093515418.jpg

For reference, I'm using stock Nates, and their good on snow, but no good on ice and they're heavy.
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Old 12-27-16, 01:59 PM
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Beside the Dillinger you have Terrene Wazia -a little cheaper than the Dillinger, less studs but the studs are better placed/sharper so they perform similarly on ice. The Wazias are also a little heavier and slower rolling than Dillingers but they are still a good tire.

Abother option is the Vee Rubber Snowshoe XL. I think those only come in 4.6 size, so they may not fit on your Pugs. They have less studs than Dillingers and the studs aren't concave so they aren't as good on ice. And in the past they were not that good on snow either. I've heard they have changed the casing this year, so they may be better. You can get them for substantially less money than Dillingers.

Bontrager also makes a studded fat tire, but I don't know much about it. I know it has a lot less studs than the Dillinger, and only available at Trek dealers I think.

Finally a shop here started selling a tire called the Shark tooth. Not much information other than they are cheap.

Another option is studding the Nates using something like Gripstuds. It is still expensive -those things are about a buck a piece- but if you already have the tires it would be cheaper than buying Dillingers.
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Old 12-27-16, 02:39 PM
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Thanks for the feedback!

Another option I'm considering is the Dillinger without studs, and adding my own stud pattern. I think the Dillinger has too many studs for my riding style. This drops the price by $100 per tire, but adds to the time and effort to install the studs.

There's a conflict between my lazy-side and my cheap-side ... but my back-side says we gotta do something!
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Old 12-27-16, 04:08 PM
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Are you going down offroad on snowpack or on the road with snowpack/ice?

My experience was that studs did not help much in snowpack.
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Old 12-27-16, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
Thanks for the feedback!

Another option I'm considering is the Dillinger without studs, and adding my own stud pattern. I think the Dillinger has too many studs for my riding style. This drops the price by $100 per tire, but adds to the time and effort to install the studs.

There's a conflict between my lazy-side and my cheap-side ... but my back-side says we gotta do something!
When I looked into it, if you added the same number of studs you saved something like $10. And I never thought the Dillinger needed less studs -although seeing how well the Wazia performs maybe the Dillinger can do with less. One thing is for sure, I'd rather have less studs than the 60tpi tires. The 60tpi are cheaper but not worth it.

It also seems like 45Nrth has discontinued at least the studless D4.
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Old 12-27-16, 05:24 PM
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It looks like you are going off road a lot. In my limited experience, studs don't do much off road or off path.

So far, in the cities, I think my 35mm studded Marathon Winters are outperforming the Pugs with Nates. Since I venture off-road so seldom, I'm starting to wonder if I really need to even keep the Pugs.
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Old 12-28-16, 11:46 AM
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HypnoToad, I'll bet you been riding the "outdoor hockey rinks" with street and trail signs that have spouted up around the MN/Twin Cities around Xmas after that freezing rain. Even today I'm still seeing some street intersections on my breakfast ride route with polished ice ruts. I don't know what single track trails look like currently, but there could be sections there too I'd suppose.

I have a new fat bike and even with lower pressures, the polished ice ruts and slick sheet ice are a challenge. I have a set of Nates on back-order coming in that I know will handle the snow well, but I too am thinking about the ice after the past few days. My current thought is to stud the Nates with grip studs. Not only are the Dillinger's pricey, but I'm not sure they have the snow/loose stuff traction the Nate's have. If you, or someone else here has gone the Dillinger route, I'd be interested in hearing about how they handle snow.
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Old 12-28-16, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankHudson
HypnoToad, I'll bet you been riding the "outdoor hockey rinks" with street and trail signs that have spouted up around the MN/Twin Cities around Xmas after that freezing rain. Even today I'm still seeing some street intersections on my breakfast ride route with polished ice ruts. I don't know what single track trails look like currently, but there could be sections there too I'd suppose.

I have a new fat bike and even with lower pressures, the polished ice ruts and slick sheet ice are a challenge. I have a set of Nates on back-order coming in that I know will handle the snow well, but I too am thinking about the ice after the past few days. My current thought is to stud the Nates with grip studs. Not only are the Dillinger's pricey, but I'm not sure they have the snow/loose stuff traction the Nate's have. If you, or someone else here has gone the Dillinger route, I'd be interested in hearing about how they handle snow.
They are a good all-around tire. They won't have as much traction as a Nate but they roll faster. I run them all season -partly because it is a hassle to swap tires; but mostly because they work.

I think the Wazias may be a little better on snow, but I have the old Dillingers. New Dillingers have taller side knobs and should handle a little better.

Edit to clarify: I have several thousand miles on D4s mounted on 80mm rims both tubed and tubeless. Conditions I have ridden these tires range from glare ice to six inches of fresh snow.

Last edited by FrozenK; 12-28-16 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 12-28-16, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankHudson
If you, or someone else here has gone the Dillinger route, I'd be interested in hearing about how they handle snow.
I'm planning on riding on my new Dillingers on my first "real" ride on them - to date just rode them around the block and across the yard the day I mounted them in November. The plan is to ride on them on my Pug on NYE, but at this time, all of our foot of snow from two weeks ago is gone, except for a few icy piles from shoveling/plowing. I'd be happy to report back on Sunday about how the ride felt in general, but based on the weather forecast for my area, I'm not counting on any snow to ride in, or at most a dusting to half an inch.
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Old 12-28-16, 04:02 PM
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I haven't had a lot of riding time this winter due to being both sick and out of town, but we about ready to hit the streets/MUP again. So I have been searching for some studded tires for our Wolftrax fatties. I have 2 bikes to outfit so price is a major factor. I found these and may have to pull the trigger on a couple to run on the fronts to see if they work for us.

- ARISUN Sharktooth #591166
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Old 12-29-16, 09:31 AM
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So many options these days. For my off road Farley, running 4.8 vee snowshoes with 45 north studs. And an older dillinger 4 in the back. Do you need a bigger in front for deep/soft snow? If not, the 4" would be fine. Check out the 45 north site, been looking at the wrathchild, 4.6. Would advise against self studding, DIY, way too much effort and time. Looked at some used ones? Running tubeless? The newer dillingers have more/bigger lugs. The 5" is more like a 4.4" And studs really do the job. Might get 3-5 years from a set.
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Old 12-29-16, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Leebo
So many options these days. For my off road Farley, running 4.8 vee snowshoes with 45 north studs. And an older dillinger 4 in the back. Do you need a bigger in front for deep/soft snow? If not, the 4" would be fine. Check out the 45 north site, been looking at the wrathchild, 4.6. Would advise against self studding, DIY, way too much effort and time. Looked at some used ones? Running tubeless? The newer dillingers have more/bigger lugs. The 5" is more like a 4.4" And studs really do the job. Might get 3-5 years from a set.
Wrathchilds are not available yet, and rumor is they may not be available at all this season.
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Old 12-29-16, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Imby
Are you going down offroad on snowpack or on the road with snowpack/ice?

My experience was that studs did not help much in snowpack.
I'm good with Nates on the snowpack, it's purely about the ice. And the hidden ice, under a dusting of snow, that's the worst.
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Old 12-29-16, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
I'm good with Nates on the snowpack, it's purely about the ice. And the hidden ice, under a dusting of snow, that's the worst.
That's where my Marathon Winters outdo the fatbike.
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Old 12-29-16, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Banzai
It looks like you are going off road a lot. In my limited experience, studs don't do much off road or off path.

So far, in the cities, I think my 35mm studded Marathon Winters are outperforming the Pugs with Nates. Since I venture off-road so seldom, I'm starting to wonder if I really need to even keep the Pugs.
I like to ride Theo, Leb, Elm Creek... so it's off-road, but packed single-tracks. When the single-tracks get a warm up and then re-freeze, the studs are a key to keeping upright.

My old 26" MTB (with Nokian Mount and Ground) was great for any road/trail conditions. But sucked in fresh snow. I also have a 700x35 bike set up with studded front and Top Contact Winter rear, good for roads in the winter.

I like the Pug for many reasons, but to be honestly, for winter-commuting, the old MTB was the best option.
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Old 12-29-16, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankHudson
HypnoToad, I'll bet you been riding the "outdoor hockey rinks" with street and trail signs that have spouted up around the MN/Twin Cities around Xmas after that freezing rain. Even today I'm still seeing some street intersections on my breakfast ride route with polished ice ruts. I don't know what single track trails look like currently, but there could be sections there too I'd suppose.

I have a new fat bike and even with lower pressures, the polished ice ruts and slick sheet ice are a challenge. I have a set of Nates on back-order coming in that I know will handle the snow well, but I too am thinking about the ice after the past few days. My current thought is to stud the Nates with grip studs. Not only are the Dillinger's pricey, but I'm not sure they have the snow/loose stuff traction the Nate's have. If you, or someone else here has gone the Dillinger route, I'd be interested in hearing about how they handle snow.
I'm kinda happy that the holiday schedule has kept me indoors, riding Zwift for the last few days. It's nasty around town!

I have to agree with your assessment of the Dillinger for fresh-snow riding. I have Fat B Nimble tires I used this summer for gravel racing (Almanzo and Filthy Fifty), these tires are great for firm summer conditions, but SUCK at fresh snow. It looks like Dillingers don't have the tread to handle fresh snow either. I have the stock Nates, so I have the option to change tires for the conditions. And right now, I want ALL THE STUDS!

Edit, just saws this post, THANK YOU for the review!
Originally Posted by FrozenK
They are a good all-around tire. They won't have as much traction as a Nate but they roll faster. I run them all season -partly because it is a hassle to swap tires; but mostly because they work.

I think the Wazias may be a little better on snow, but I have the old Dillingers. New Dillingers have taller side knobs and should handle a little better.

Edit to clarify: I have several thousand miles on D4s mounted on 80mm rims both tubed and tubeless. Conditions I have ridden these tires range from glare ice to six inches of fresh snow.
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Old 12-29-16, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by banzai
that's where my marathon winters outdo the fatbike.
+1
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Old 12-29-16, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Banzai
That's where my Marathon Winters outdo the fatbike.
Great until there is more than 1" of snow, or off road.
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Old 12-29-16, 12:21 PM
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interesting challenges as winter comes on & conditions change. black ice on paved surfaces. light snow w/o ice on unpaved trails, then snow covered ice, then deeper snow, then what? we all need 3-4 bikes with various tire setups, huh?
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Old 12-29-16, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
interesting challenges as winter comes on & conditions change. black ice on paved surfaces. light snow w/o ice on unpaved trails, then snow covered ice, then deeper snow, then what? we all need 3-4 bikes with various tire setups, huh?
Absolutely!

At this time, I have 3 bikes ready to go for winter riding, and another that I never did get set up - oh well, always the fall of 2017.

I choose what bike to ride based upon the surface conditions as well as my particular ride goal and how I'm feeling that day. 4-5 inches of fresh snow is definitely a fat-bike day. Current conditions here are cold and dry, with just a few lingering small patches of ice from the big thaw on Monday and re-freeze on Tuesday. Definitely a day I could ride either my Crosstrail with non-studded, mtb tires, as long as I was careful to watch out and avoid the icy spots, or my Sirrus with studded tires.

But if I wanted a tougher workout (and trust me, right now, still fighting a cold, I don't!) I would take the Pug anyway - studded fatbike tires on dry asphalt and concrete are a pretty intense workout, IMHO, at least for me!
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Old 12-29-16, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
interesting challenges as winter comes on & conditions change. black ice on paved surfaces. light snow w/o ice on unpaved trails, then snow covered ice, then deeper snow, then what? we all need 3-4 bikes with various tire setups, huh?
Nope. I'm either commuting or winter biking off road. That said, 3 winter commuters with studs ready to go.
35 mm x 700, 40 mm x 700, 48mm x 26"
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Old 12-29-16, 02:27 PM
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just had some fun watching youtube videos
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Old 12-29-16, 02:59 PM
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LBS Shipped up , some studded Fat Biker tires To One of our friends in the USCG on Kodiak Island, Who Used to help out at the shop, when stationed Here.
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Old 12-29-16, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Leebo
Great until there is more than 1" of snow, or off road.
Sure. But the conditions I replied to were a light dusting with ice underneath.
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Old 12-30-16, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveQ24
Absolutely!

At this time, I have 3 bikes ready to go for winter riding, and another that I never did get set up - oh well, always the fall of 2017.

I choose what bike to ride based upon the surface conditions as well as my particular ride goal and how I'm feeling that day. 4-5 inches of fresh snow is definitely a fat-bike day. Current conditions here are cold and dry, with just a few lingering small patches of ice from the big thaw on Monday and re-freeze on Tuesday. Definitely a day I could ride either my Crosstrail with non-studded, mtb tires, as long as I was careful to watch out and avoid the icy spots, or my Sirrus with studded tires.

But if I wanted a tougher workout (and trust me, right now, still fighting a cold, I don't!) I would take the Pug anyway - studded fatbike tires on dry asphalt and concrete are a pretty intense workout, IMHO, at least for me!
^^^ this!

I'm down to two winter bikes (broke the frame on 26er MTB). The more you ride winter, the more options you build up and before you know it, you've got many winter bikes ready to go. To repeat, it's great to look at the waether, and grab the right bike for the conditions - I do exactly the same thing for summer conditions too.

Footnote: It is a luxury to have enough space and money to support multiple ready-to-ride bikes. I am thankful to enjoy these luxuries.
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