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Fat plus 27.5 extra wheelset

Old 01-08-18, 09:50 AM
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Fat plus 27.5 extra wheelset

With the fat bike on its way, the agreement with my wife is that N+1 has reached the S-1 point so I'm to sell something else. My feeling is that I can use it to replace my MTB so I'm wondering if you can see any problems with me purchasing (or get someone to build) an extra wheelset for the fat bike using 27.5 tubeless rims. I know that I need to make sure that the hubs are the right size but other than that, are there any concerns?

The fat bike is a 1x (Shimano) so for summer use, I'm considering swapping out the chain ring for a slightly larger one (plus a slightly longer chain) when running the 27.5 wheels but I'll have to see if this is possible when the bike arrives.
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Old 01-08-18, 02:56 PM
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Would a 29er plus fit? Sell? Blasphemy. Unless you have more than 10 or 15. I run my fatty with 80 mm rims and 3.8 tires in the summer. Many do here in New England.
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Old 01-08-18, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Leebo
Would a 29er plus fit?
Running a 29er wheel would enable me to use the 29er tires I already have (I have the original tires that came with the bike plus 3 other sets so this option would enable me to keep the other tires). The fat tires that come with the bike are 4.8" (and assuming that is height as well as width), 26" rims plus 5" tires = 31" so on a 29" rims, I could use 2" tires but pushing it to plus tires, such as 3" or more, I don't know, I'd have to measure the stay/fork length to find out.

Originally Posted by Leebo
Sell? Blasphemy.
I put her on the market but everyone looked past her to my bikes so no one offered anything for her. Oh, wait, are you talking about the bike, oh (ooops, sorry honey).

Originally Posted by Leebo
I run my fatty with 80 mm rims and 3.8 tires in the summer. Many do here in New England.
What tires are those? However, 3.8 on 29er rims might not fit within the height but they are something I'd consider for a 27.5 wheelset.

Given that the fat bike, like most, does not have suspension (other than large, soft tires), plus-sized tires on the alternate wheels are what I'm considering but I suspect, at this point, that 29er plus tires would be too much for the frame but I'll measure when the bike arrives.
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Old 01-08-18, 10:40 PM
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the other day I was thinking something similar in that my fatbike also could be my hybrid bike with a different wheelset. The problem with that thought-experiment is that you still will have a compromised bike (e.g. fatbike geometry vs. what you would pick for an MTB etc.) and the larger hubs also would be heavier. Fatbike wheels, even if not 80mm rims, also tend to be more expensive at given quality.

It also doesn't seem to be a financial gain if you already own the bike you try to replace, like in your case. Do you expect to get as much money for the old bike as the new wheels will cost?

And what about possible summer use of the fatbike? then you would be switching wheels all the time. Obviously this depends on your situation. Replacing wheels most likely requires some caliper and derailleur adjustment. so unless you really only do that seasonally, this can get old quickly.

I'm not sure a 27.5 plus rigid MTB really has advantages over a fatbike with 4" or 4.8" tires. I assume here you talk about rigid fork in both cases. Probably not a huge weight saving and most of the rolling resistance of a fatbike is not from the size of tire, but from the tire profile. If you don't have snow or sand, you could just get rid of the fatbike and just have an MTB? and are you sure a 27.5" plus bike with rigid fork will be good for your riding?

Many points I raise that may or may not apply to your situation. Just some thoughts. Obviously you will have to live with he situation. I've been thinking and wondering about the one bike that does it all for me, but it woudl be a Jack of all trades and master of none.
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Old 01-09-18, 07:50 AM
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I have a Salsa Mukluk. My second wheelset for this bike is going to 29+ running 3" rubber. Researching the rim options currently.
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Old 01-09-18, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun
the other day I was thinking something similar in that my fatbike also could be my hybrid bike with a different wheelset. The problem with that thought-experiment is that you still will have a compromised bike (e.g. fatbike geometry vs. what you would pick for an MTB etc.) and the larger hubs also would be heavier. Fatbike wheels, even if not 80mm rims, also tend to be more expensive at given quality.

It also doesn't seem to be a financial gain if you already own the bike you try to replace, like in your case. Do you expect to get as much money for the old bike as the new wheels will cost?

And what about possible summer use of the fatbike? then you would be switching wheels all the time. Obviously this depends on your situation. Replacing wheels most likely requires some caliper and derailleur adjustment. so unless you really only do that seasonally, this can get old quickly.

I'm not sure a 27.5 plus rigid MTB really has advantages over a fatbike with 4" or 4.8" tires. I assume here you talk about rigid fork in both cases. Probably not a huge weight saving and most of the rolling resistance of a fatbike is not from the size of tire, but from the tire profile. If you don't have snow or sand, you could just get rid of the fatbike and just have an MTB? and are you sure a 27.5" plus bike with rigid fork will be good for your riding?

Many points I raise that may or may not apply to your situation. Just some thoughts. Obviously you will have to live with he situation. I've been thinking and wondering about the one bike that does it all for me, but it woudl be a Jack of all trades and master of none.
Good questions.

So, first of all, the agreement to purchase the fat bike also included an agreement to sell the 29er (or any of my bikes, I felt that the 29er was best as I believed that the fat bike could also serve as a summer MTB so cycling options would not be lost) so any discussion about whether or not I should keep the 29er really is moot.

During the summer, I use my MTB for cycling the dirt (and sometimes rough) roads and trails for fun and exercise. The extra wheelset is only for summer use so I'd be swapping only 2x/yr. I'm not really concerned about weight, just versatility.

I'm hoping that I can get $400-500CDN for my 29er (if necessary, with all 3 sets of tires) and I would hope that would be enough for another wheelset and tires but even if it's close, that's fine.
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Old 01-09-18, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jrickards
Running a 29er wheel would enable me to use the 29er tires I already have (I have the original tires that came with the bike plus 3 other sets so this option would enable me to keep the other tires). The fat tires that come with the bike are 4.8" (and assuming that is height as well as width), 26" rims plus 5" tires = 31" so on a 29" rims, I could use 2" tires but pushing it to plus tires, such as 3" or more, I don't know, I'd have to measure the stay/fork length to find out.



I put her on the market but everyone looked past her to my bikes so no one offered anything for her. Oh, wait, are you talking about the bike, oh (ooops, sorry honey).



What tires are those? However, 3.8 on 29er rims might not fit within the height but they are something I'd consider for a 27.5 wheelset.

Given that the fat bike, like most, does not have suspension (other than large, soft tires), plus-sized tires on the alternate wheels are what I'm considering but I suspect, at this point, that 29er plus tires would be too much for the frame but I'll measure when the bike arrives.
Maybe I wasn't clear( happens a lot) For the fat bike. I run 80 mm rims year round. 3.8 tires in the summer. 4.6 studded tires in the winter. One option that many fat bike owner do is to run a 29er plus wheel set in the summer, if it fits. Say a 35-45 mm rim and 2.8/3.0 inch tires. And how many bike do you have? 9 here, put your foot down. I get all relationships are different, $$ etc. Bikes are my hobby, sport, transportation and gym time. She like my legs and the 110/72 blood pressure is nice as well. Plus it keeps me in shape. I tend to buy and keep my bikes, sometimes get used parts, swap out etc. Selling bikes gets you a lots less $$ on resale. YRMV.
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Old 01-09-18, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Leebo
Maybe I wasn't clear( happens a lot) For the fat bike. I run 80 mm rims year round. 3.8 tires in the summer. 4.6 studded tires in the winter. One option that many fat bike owner do is to run a 29er plus wheel set in the summer, if it fits. Say a 35-45 mm rim and 2.8/3.0 inch tires. And how many bike do you have? 9 here, put your foot down. I get all relationships are different, $$ etc. Bikes are my hobby, sport, transportation and gym time. She like my legs and the 110/72 blood pressure is nice as well. Plus it keeps me in shape. I tend to buy and keep my bikes, sometimes get used parts, swap out etc. Selling bikes gets you a lots less $$ on resale. YRMV.
I'm going to consider a 29er+ wheelset and while I'm sure a 27.5+ wheelset (including tires) will fit in any fat bike, 29er+, depending on the height of the tires, might exceed the length of the forks/stays so I'll have to do some measurements (the FB hasn't arrived yet, but I'll post the measurements when it arrives).

Yes, same for me, my hobby, sport, transportation and gym time (except for the bodyweight-based workouts at home) but, the swap of the FB for the 29er is a reasonable compromise for me, for both of us. Most of my annual ~4,100km cycling (2017 stats) is on my Kona Sutra (~3,000km), second would be my Look road bike (~800km) and my 29er would be third (~300km) so the FB, even including winter use, would not see huge volumes of use, but maybe an additional 100-200km added to the total because of additional winter cycling, although my brother-in-law and I are talking about a 2day MTB ride, this coming summer, that would be in the order of about 120km on dirt roads: a FB or plus-tire would be nice (we've ridden about 30km of it and most of it was fine with his regular MTB bike but the end got sketchy).

I'm not selling the 29er to *make* money but I'm not going to give it away. The money received from its sale will at least offset the cost of the additional wheelset and tires, if not cover it altogether.
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Old 01-09-18, 10:58 AM
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You have it all wrong with the tire diameters. You don't add the tire width to the rim diameter.
A 4 inch nominal diameter tire on a 26" rim comes to about the same diameter as a regular 29r or a 27.5+ tire.

A 4.6/4.8 tire comes to about the same as a 29+ (depending on the 29+ tire) I don't know what fat bike you bought, so it may or may not clear 29+ tires but it will most likely clear 27.5+

You may also try running something like Knards in the summer mounted on the rims that came with the fatbike.
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Old 01-09-18, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by FrozenK
You have it all wrong with the tire diameters. You don't add the tire width to the rim diameter.
A 4 inch nominal diameter tire on a 26" rim comes to about the same diameter as a regular 29r or a 27.5+ tire.

A 4.6/4.8 tire comes to about the same as a 29+ (depending on the 29+ tire) I don't know what fat bike you bought, so it may or may not clear 29+ tires but it will most likely clear 27.5+

You may also try running something like Knards in the summer mounted on the rims that came with the fatbike.
You're quite right to school me () on tire measurements, I've always been a bit confused as to what the measurements refer to: for example, one of my tires is listed as 700Cx37 but the ERTO is 35-622.

I also understand that the same tire on two different width rims will result in a different height but the final measurement of the tire really can only be done when mounted on the rims.

Can you give me some guidance then? If my FB (Moose Bicycles Fat Bike 2, not yet arrived) comes with 4.8" Vee Snow Avalanche tires, do you think I could put a 29er+ rim/tire on the bike for summer rides?
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Old 01-09-18, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jrickards
You're quite right to school me () on tire measurements, I've always been a bit confused as to what the measurements refer to: for example, one of my tires is listed as 700Cx37 but the ERTO is 35-622.

I also understand that the same tire on two different width rims will result in a different height but the final measurement of the tire really can only be done when mounted on the rims.

Can you give me some guidance then? If my FB (Moose Bicycles Fat Bike 2, not yet arrived) comes with 4.8" Vee Snow Avalanche tires, do you think I could put a 29er+ rim/tire on the bike for summer rides?
Maybe, it will depend on how tight the tires are, and what 29+ tires we are talking about. I'd say most likely yes. Most bikes that can fit a 4.5 tire can fit a 29+ tire in the 2.5" range.

If I understand correctly you already have the 29r tires (assuming mounted on wheels) so you can easily check when the bike arrives. Or contact Moose cycles and ask.
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Old 01-09-18, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FrozenK
Maybe, it will depend on how tight the tires are, and what 29+ tires we are talking about. I'd say most likely yes. Most bikes that can fit a 4.5 tire can fit a 29+ tire in the 2.5" range.

If I understand correctly you already have the 29r tires (assuming mounted on wheels) so you can easily check when the bike arrives. Or contact Moose cycles and ask.
I have a 29er bike which will be sold to appease the wife (and I'm in agreement, if the FB can serve as my summer MTB, I'm completely in favour of selling the 29er). However, the 29er I have does not allow for tires larger than 2.2" (I put my son's 2.4" and I couldn't shift to the granny ring because of chain rub) so I don't have plus tires. However, this 29er has front suspension so to make up for some of the lack of front suspension on the FB, my wish is to have plus tires rather than just get 29er rims and mount my 2.2" tires (or even my son's 2.4").

I realize that I'm making compromises, that the FB geometry is not the same as a MTB, that even 4.8" tires are not the same as front suspension, but I'm fine with those. The purpose of this thread was: is it reasonable to have a second (summer) wheelset of the 27.5 (or possibly 29er) diameter with plus tires or will there be significant problems that can't be overcome?

I've learned a lot from comments in this thread and it won't be until the spring comes that I'll doing the real work of spec'ing a wheelset (a friend might be willing to build one if he has time) so this thread has served its purpose of educating me and making me consider options I hadn't considered (Knards on the FB rims for summer use, for example).

This thread is not closed as I'm sure other ideas may be floating out there, but I've learned lots.
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