Better yet, maybe we should just all die now rather than demonstrate how vain and shallow we are.

I think I'll respectfully disagree. I spent a lifetime doing meaningful things at work and in raising my children. Now its my turn to enjoy myself. It is noble to me if it makes me feel good. As for the old lady smiling. That may have been misinterpreted. Most of us have pretty well developed legs and glutes. That may have been what she was smiling at. :thumb:

You know, one of the really nice things about life is being able to have fun. Fun means as many different things as there are people. But probably the worst thing you can do is piss on someone's fun because you want to comment but have no understanding... unless, of course, that is how you get your jollies.

There are many things people can leave behind "in their will" based on their experiences. People might write down what they have been through, and that could end up being a book or a movie that changes other people's lives. It can be through passing on knowledge and wisdom to younger generations, providing them with an education. It can be through pictures, either photographs, or through art. And even using that observation about Pascal... he left behind something that has endured centuries, because people who make discoveries, often in collaboration with people in other countries, add to our lives.

Frankly, I take the view that my life is enriched if I learn something new each day (irrespective of how mundane or outstanding it might be) as well as have some fun doing the things I enjoy. That way I can cope with the less-desirable aspects of my life.

Hmm.... What does "noble to me" mean? If it's entirely about oneself, independent of any shared principle, value or commonly known fact, how could anyone else possibly understand? It may not be important whether anyone ever actually understands (let alone agrees with one in any particular situation), but if understanding were impossible or unwanted, that would be an awful thing. It seems to me that the idea of mutual understanding and the possibility of a shared will is the foundation of our value of human life.

There's something more to taking your turn to enjoy yourself, isn't there? Perhaps you agree with Rowan.

Well put.

Now back to the thread title: a good life doesn't require a ticket or an itinerary, and while having one may help, it doesn't necessarily make one better.

+1

Well put!

(The last reply missed this pertinent part out of Rowan's post so I fixed the error.)

I have no bucket list yet myself.... but I have no problem with those that do... for whatever reason. I do have some things I really hope to see and do yet while I am still alive and well. They are of course for my own selfish enjoyment.

I could get hit while out cycling this afternoon... and never return home or ever create a "bucket list". Or maybe... get hit this afternoon and due to complications... realize if there are any loose ends in my life I will have an immediate need to tie them down. For this I would make one last list to accomplish my final preparations before I kick the bucket.

Years ago. I sold men's suits. It was common for elderly or sickly older men to stop in (often times with there spouse) and select a last suit. From time-to-time (even though the pants were unfinished) no alteration ticket was needed. These were suits to be worn for a showing. And... they would be worn soon.

I have a suit that will look fine in a coffin.
My papers are organized and filed.
I would compile a current up-to-date list of POC's names, phone numbers, mailing and emailing addresses.
My wife would need a scanner (its a wifi combo printer-scanner) icon on her desktop. (very low on the list priority).
I have some old friends I'd like to meet with (if possible) and say goodbye to.

A little thinking would certain expand on this list.... I am sure. And MAYBE a last (even if questionable) bike ride would be on the list. I have extra bicycles... and if time is limited anyway.....

Oh, maybe that was the part you liked, but I didn't cut it out by mistake. ;)

But since you brought it up, you know one can be direct or indirect in "pissing on someone's fun". Not that anyone here was doing so, but making claims about the importance of ones own form of fun, recreation, or proper use of retirement - all this "MUST see/do before you die" nonsense going around these days, exaggerated claims about how necessary it is to visit certain exotic places and so on is really just an indirect way of pissing on folks who have fun or make a good life without doing those things.

Now the kind of bucket list Dave Cutter describes is thoughtful and sensible, but probably not as much fun as going sky diving, hiking to Machu Picchu and such. Seriously, I never imagined people went shopping for suits to wear in their own coffin!

You really don't get it !

Here are two items on the "life list" I made when I retired that have nothing at all to do with travel: "Help homeless/hungry" and "Volunteer school bike program". Travel is a very small component of my future plans. However, how I travel is: "Complete one long bike tour annually" and "Complete a short tour with daughters annually".

Mental lists like Dave Cutter and others have or a written list can have very little to do with "traveling to exotic places". I really don't give a rip what you do in your life. It's your "list".

I don't see a bucket list as something someone MUST do, but rather what they would LIKE to do. After all, nobody MUST submit to the list!

Yes, I DO get what you have in mind, and that's all fine, of course. I've only been describing why I find a different kind of bucket list annoying - lists like this: 25 Things You Absolutely Positively Must Do Before You Die
and this:
Travel Bucket List: 100 Places to Visit Before You Die
Lists like these are all over the place these days, and it seems to me that the folks who call them bucket lists are the ones who don't get it.

You're right, of course, and I suppose it's just an overused figure of speech, but the suggestion is that by not at least attempting to cross off items on such lists, one is failing to be a better person, and that's rather annoying.

In this context, I can understand your point. I don't think we can figure out what people really mean with e-mails and forum posts. There is too much room for interpretation. There is also a high probability that the term "bucket list" means totally different things to different people. I apologize for getting a little "defensively aggressive."

This thread and many other threads on this forum reminds me of a concept that is attributed to Sigmund Freud:

"Narcissism of small differences: The need to distinguish oneself by minute shadings, and to insist with outsized militancy on the importance of those shadings."

I'm guilty!

This is a very curious phenomena. I live in a region with 7.4 million people. But, if I travel I will come back with fascinating stories of the people I meet?. But, I do not have these stories about the 7.4 million people that are locals, I have to go find them somewhere else?

Perhaps whats going on is you open yourself to people and experiences when you travel, otherwise...not.. Makes me think of Kafka:

"You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet."

It's healthy to look within to find the universality of life. However, its no substitute for discovering both the extremes and the common while seeing new people and places. My priorities have been: family, education, travel, profession, cycling and food. Most of my accomplishments came after age 45, including a BS degree from a prestigious university at age 50.

If I faced death today, I would feel that life was thrilling and worthwhile. However, I have plenty to accomplish and a dozen active years to spend before even thinking about slowing down.

I love travelling and meeting people, whether they are locals or travellers like me, but it's not the main reason I travel.

I'm amused by the number of people who say that they really love getting to meet the "real" locals on their travels when it's quite possible that they never make the effort to meet any people at home outside their social or working group.

What's the difference between a "peasant" abroad or a labourer, factory worker or farm worker at home?

I have bike toured in a lot of places, including extensively in the U.S. and Canada, and I met good and interesting people from 2 blocks to thousands of miles from my home. Interesting people are everywhere, and the bike is the icebreaker that makes a cyclist much more approachable than someone in a car. People are not afraid to talk to someone on a bike. You don't have to travel very far to experience this.

I neither agree nor disagree with Rowan. As for understanding...that's a very subjective thing. We have experiences and perceptions and define what understanding that particular perception or experience requires when in fact each person colors and flavors those things they see with the totality of their life experiences. When we realize someone else doesn't understand something as we do, we tend to say they don't get it when in fact, they do get it, just not the same as we do. It is the differences in understanding that are the variety and spice of life.

If you like lists, don't let anyone's opinion of that influence you and if you don't like lists, don't let anyone's opinion of that influence you either. Live life on your terms and not the terms someone else defines. If touring on a bicycle is a life changing experience for you, great. If its not, great. Different people will experience things differently. Be what you are and who you are. Never let anyone lead you to feel that your way, if different from theirs, is not as good.

Yeah, what's up with that? I'm just as guilty!

There can be quite substantial differences in how each one approaches life and what they do for a living, or in their leisure time. Gaining an understanding of those differences could enrich the traveller's own life, and at the same time enhance the life of those s/he meets.

And the farm worker bit is quite funny to me because I do work on an orchard that employs backpackers from around... oh... 20 different countries. Some speak English quite well, some not. But it doesn't matter because we find ways of communicating. And they are all there because they want to tour Australia, to experience the country's landscapes and way of life, and work to get paid so they can do all that.

I remember last season, a picker from Europe, I think it was Italy, said he wanted to come to this orchard because he had eaten our cherries and wanted to see how they were grown and by whom.

Did we enrich his experience? I think we did. Was it on his bucket list? He probably didn't have a bucket list because he was in his 20s, but it sure was on his list of things he wanted to do.

I fully understand that and, in my obviously clumsy way, was trying to highlight how some people go on about how they loved meeting real people when travelling, and entertain their friends with stories about such encounters, but never, in their normal lives back home, would dream of starting conversations with people such as labourers, refuse collectors or farm workers.

I would even put myself amongst that number in my younger years, when I looked on holidays in the UK as second choice in favour of foreign travels where the main attractions were sunshine, scenery and cheap alcohol :rolleyes: .

In recent years we've made a conscious effort to travel around all corners of our own country, and it's been just as rewarding.

I know this was in reply to Rowen's post but I'm going to comment anyway:)

When my wife and I travel anywhere by bike we meet and talk to a lot of people. They are not intimate conversations, and the person usually approaches us and starts the conversation. We are both outgoing, and will talk to almost anyone anytime. Hundreds of people everywhere have gone out of their way to help us during our travels; leading us through busy cities, giving directions, helping us find a campground or room, doing our laundry, offering lodging, giving us rides, and just taking an interest in what we are doing.

My wife pretty well summed it up when I was repairing a tire last summer while riding through the Central Valley of California. A hispanic man and his son approached us. The father could not speak English, and used his young son as an interpreter. They were talking to my wife as I worked on the bike. I really paid attention when the father through the young boy asked my wife why we travel by bikes. My wife said, "to talk to people like you." The smile on the father's face said it all.

Another incident sticks in my mind. My wife and I pulled up to a restaurant on Sunday morning in a small Iowa town to catch our second breakfast just as a group of about 10 people were leaving. Upon spotting us parking the bikes one member of the group approached and asked the usual 3 questions: where are you headed, where did you start, how long have you been on the road." After chatting for a few minutes the group looked like they were ready to go, but one of the members asked us if we minded them saying a prayer for our safety. We all joined hands in a circle, and they said a prayer for us.

These are just 2 examples of what "meeting real people" is all about. We could probably list several dozen similar encounters. By the way, ALL people are real.

Serendipity struck again- We happened into a small town when a parade was happening. At the finish of the parade a group of participants surrounded us and started asking questions. We also learned about the history of the event. I was offered 5 beers in about 5 minutes, but we still had a way to go that evening. Example #3 :)
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...2011/Nuess.jpg

Great examples of the benefits of travelling by bike (or hiking) where you cannot help but meet up with locals, and are not insulated in your car, coach or holiday hotel.

I would concur with comments made above that cycling breaks the ice and generally creates opportunity to meet people that you would not otherwise meet. My wife and I recently traveled to AZ for a vacation stopping in CA to ride Mt. Diablo. It wasn't more than a few minutes along the ride that I caught up with another cyclist, a local, with whom I had a pleasurable conversation as we rode. At the top of the climb I spoke with several people, some cyclists, some hikers, all local or lived within riding distance. Who said Californian's were strange?

Cycling in the Scottsdale, AZ area on the other hand in my experience has been hit and miss. I think the issue is that there are just so many cyclists everywhere that you're just another guy on a bike. Kind of like riding the transit. "Don't look someone in the eyes - they may start a conversation." OTOH, a couple of years ago I lost my wallet in Scottsdale while on a shop ride. Another cyclist, riding with a different group ride saw it and turned back to pick it up - then rode to catch up with his group. An extraordinary effort in itself. When he got home he found an REI receipt in the wallet and phoned them, who in turn had my number and phoned me connecting us. I was very thankful to have met such an awesome fellow cyclist.

Back to the original topic of "bucket lists". The very nature of BF itself creates a type of bucket list. Reading posts from BF members across the continent and some across the globe has created a desire to ride many of the amazing places that you all ride. I'll refrain from commenting on the making of lists except to say that for me it's meaning is simply an expression of the desire to do something. Whether I live long enough, have enough money, etc to ride my bike in all the places that I dream of ... well that's another story. In the mean time, thank you for all the ride posts, photos, etc. Love them all.