Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

Power meter goes a long way with training

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Power meter goes a long way with training

Old 10-06-15, 07:10 PM
  #1  
Rich Gibson 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Rich Gibson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 522

Bikes: Fuji Rubaix 1.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Power meter goes a long way with training

I recently purchased and installed a Power2Max poser meter for my Fuji Roubaix. As has been mentioned in this forum it is difficult to get a real idea of how one's training is going. This spring I encountered significant allergic problems. I'm no where in the league of many of you here but I have been able to do 24 miles on my trainer at around 15 miles and hour. In March I encountered significant bronchial spasms (b.s.) difficulties even inside on a trainer and when I tried going outside I not only encountered that but I had to quit way early because of that and lung soreness. I saw an allergist and tests confirmed allergies to trees, grass, weeds and mold. I did some research and asked him about B.S. and he gave me a blank look, admitted it was not his specialty and referred me to a pulmonologist. I'm seeing him tomorrow after several weeks using an airflow meter. He confirmed that I had asthma and wanted to see the flow numbers to arrive at a treatment plam

Before my initial visit to the pulmonologist I purchased the power meter and began doing my engineer 'thing' and controlling variables varying them one at a time. Sure enough my AHR varies as much as 8 bpm for the same pace and distance. I've included my training figures from January to date. You can see the deterioration in performance due to allergies first in April and then to the miserable ozone we had here in Washington in June and July.

I started incorporating a slower paced break in and increasing a bpm each mile to my cruising pace. Voila! no more b.s. However I still hit a ceiling at around 18 miles and 14 mph when it gets painful. (no heart problems; I had a full blown heart work up in June...no detectable blockages). You can see the much steadier training from the beginning of August. For me the $500 was a useful investment. Hopefully the doctor will figure out which medication to help me out with this asthma.


Rich
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
2015-10-06_20-49-18 t.t..jpg (54.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg
__________________
..life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes. ― Andy Rooney ...enjoy what's left!
Rich Gibson is offline  
Old 10-06-15, 08:16 PM
  #2  
bakes1
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 1,248

Bikes: 1975 Motobecane Le Champion lilac, 2015 Specialized Secteur Elite

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No offense but it really isnt difficult to gauge training.
But either way it seems you may be mixing up training with progress.
Are you making progress or are you training with specific end goals that you neglected to mention?
I am sorry but encouraging people to spend $500-$1000 on one piece of bicycle electronics given the scenario you presented seems exceedingly frivolous to me.
Just sayin...

Last edited by bakes1; 10-06-15 at 08:20 PM.
bakes1 is offline  
Old 10-07-15, 08:38 AM
  #3  
qcpmsame 
Semper Fi
 
qcpmsame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Barrineau Park, Florida
Posts: 12,449

Bikes: '80 Medici Pro Strada, '86 Tommasini Prestige, '12 CAAD 10 Ultegra

Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 986 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Rich,
Glad that your PM is helping out, don't let the naysayers get in the way of your goals. If it helps you with your riding and getting out from under the pulmonary problems then by all means use it and get the best results you can. After our conversations and swapping some PMs I think you are on the right track for some improvement.

Bill
__________________
I Didn't Choose To Have Parkinson's Disease, I Have Chosen Not To Allow It To Define How I Live
Life Member "Hairy Eared Engineer's Society"
"I Can Do All Things Through Christ, Whom Strengthens Me" Philippians 4:13
qcpmsame is offline  
Old 10-07-15, 09:10 AM
  #4  
OldTryGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SW Fl.
Posts: 4,395

Bikes: 1981 Custom Touring Paramount, 1983 Road Paramount, 2013 Giant Propel Advanced SL3, 2018 Specialized Red Roubaix Expert mech., 2002 Magna 7sp hybrid, 1976 Bassett Racing 45sp Cruiser

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 656 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 28 Posts
Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
Rich,
Glad that your PM is helping out, don't let the naysayers get in the way of your goals. If it helps you with your riding and getting out from under the pulmonary problems then by all means use it and get the best results you can. After our conversations and swapping some PMs I think you are on the right track for some improvement.

Bill
+1 what Bill wrote.

Feeling results from exercise and being able to see printed results reinforces the course of action taken or can indicate a change required to improve. Rock On!
OldTryGuy is offline  
Old 10-07-15, 09:53 AM
  #5  
TMonk
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 11,084

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 905 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 39 Posts
Right on @Rich Gibson! I love riding with my power meter, it's by far my favorite piece of equipment that I own. It's a great way to quantify your fitness, fatigue and performance.

For me, riding is as much about planning, training and working out than anything else. I'm a 28yo competitive road and track cyclist, not that it matters.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 10-07-15, 10:17 AM
  #6  
volosong
Senior Member
 
volosong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 2,766

Bikes: n + 1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
Rich, what software did you use to create your graph? Nice analysis of your body's capabilities and limitations. You are your own best physician.
volosong is offline  
Old 10-07-15, 09:08 PM
  #7  
Rich Gibson 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Rich Gibson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 522

Bikes: Fuji Rubaix 1.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bakes1 View Post
No offense but it really isnt difficult to gauge training.
But either way it seems you may be mixing up training with progress.
Are you making progress or are you training with specific end goals that you neglected to mention?
I am sorry but encouraging people to spend $500-$1000 on one piece of bicycle electronics given the scenario you presented seems exceedingly frivolous to me.
Just sayin...
And some spend a thousand on wheels to save a few tens of grams which is negated if they don't take a dump before riding.

Just say in...

Rich
__________________
..life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes. ― Andy Rooney ...enjoy what's left!
Rich Gibson is offline  
Old 10-07-15, 09:23 PM
  #8  
Rich Gibson 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Rich Gibson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 522

Bikes: Fuji Rubaix 1.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by volosong View Post
Rich, what software did you use to create your graph? Nice analysis of your body's capabilities and limitations. You are your own best physician.
It's a site called training peaks. I use an app IpBike which records HR, cadence, speed and power which I upload to Training Peaks, That graph is available if you use their premium membership. I think it's worth it because you can dig deeper and see HR, etc . over the entire ride.

However you can track almost as much using a spreadsheet. When I get time tomorrow I'll post the formulas for a few of the graphs for CTL, ATL, TSS and others.

Rich
__________________
..life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes. ― Andy Rooney ...enjoy what's left!
Rich Gibson is offline  
Old 10-08-15, 06:03 AM
  #9  
volosong
Senior Member
 
volosong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 2,766

Bikes: n + 1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Ah. Thank you. I'll have to look into Training Peaks more. I've just used Strava up to now and in a very brief examination of TP, didn't see how it showed me more that what Strava already does. I like that you can track trends over time, instead of just one ride. Haven't figured how Strava does that, if it even can, (Have had the paid for the premium membership several years now.)
volosong is offline  
Old 10-08-15, 06:55 AM
  #10  
qcpmsame 
Semper Fi
 
qcpmsame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Barrineau Park, Florida
Posts: 12,449

Bikes: '80 Medici Pro Strada, '86 Tommasini Prestige, '12 CAAD 10 Ultegra

Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 986 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Thanks for the gouge on the software and app, Rich, they look/sound like pretty good stuff for an analysis of your ride, and to keep track of things as far as health and fitness. If you guys keep posting things like this about the PM advantages, and how you are benefiting from using them, more of us that want to keep track of some data will make the switch.

I watched the technician, at our LBS, set up a riders Stages PM on his Specialized Allez a few weeks ago, using a Garmin and the interface for that purpose. it was pretty interesting to see the pick up of the HR right there (he had put the strap on so they could check out the unit, and set up the system for his use,) its a pretty amazing little device, attaches to one, or both, crank arms, and its barely noticeable. They attached magnets for the front wheel, and the crank arm on the frame, at the chain stay. The whole process was straight forward and fairly easy to do. The LBS set it up for him since he purchased it through them, and they have a young guy that is a certified Specialized fitting tech (Body Geometry) and took the Stages class, also. He is a real knowledgeable young man, he helped me with shoes and on setting up my saddle.

It this gets you through that tough patch you posted about a few months back, this is a small amount of cash to pay to help you to overcome the problems. My doctors like that I use a simple Rider's Diary, and keep track of my nutrition and HR, both avg and Max, as well as resting HR and BP. they can see the trends and such, easily. I also use Endomondo to track some things, they have recently improved their training and workout graphics for the better. Anything that lets me improve, and that aides the physicians is a good thing, IMHO.

Thanks for posting this, Rich, much appreciated.

Bill

BTW, you may want to do an edit for the spelling of the name of your PM, A Poser Meter just plays into some peoples need to criticize anything technological.
__________________
I Didn't Choose To Have Parkinson's Disease, I Have Chosen Not To Allow It To Define How I Live
Life Member "Hairy Eared Engineer's Society"
"I Can Do All Things Through Christ, Whom Strengthens Me" Philippians 4:13

Last edited by qcpmsame; 10-08-15 at 06:59 AM.
qcpmsame is offline  
Old 10-08-15, 04:50 PM
  #11  
lphilpot
Saved by Grace
 
lphilpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The slow guy in the back
Posts: 740

Bikes: Only one at a time; currently a 2012 Specialized Tricross Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
And some spend a thousand on wheels to save a few tens of grams which is negated if they don't take a dump before riding.

Just say in...

Rich
lphilpot is offline  
Old 10-08-15, 05:14 PM
  #12  
Rich Gibson 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Rich Gibson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 522

Bikes: Fuji Rubaix 1.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks Bill! As for the values on the chart. TSS (in my words) is sort of a 'how much did I do?' indicator over a calculation using HR; the formula TSS = (S x NP x IF) / (FTP x 3,600) x 100 where 'S' is elapsed workout time in seconds, NP is normalized power (as opposed to average power..it is weighted), 'IF' is the intensity factor (NP/FTP). I estimated my FTP based on the charts available at Training Peaks. I'm not really anal about a precise FTP since I am interested in relative progress as opposed to precise figures. I'm confident I'm close enough. Another benefit was seeing that my asthma is triggered by spring pollen and mid summer ozone. The fall the numbers don't closely correlate with middle level air quality as they did with the abnormally high ones earlier in the year and may be triggered by some other factors. The doctor prescribed Symbacort.

ATL is Acute Training Load, a weighted moving average of daily TSS values over 7 days. [Previous day ATL+(Current day TSS- Previous day ATL)/7]

CTL is the chronic training level, a wighted moving average of daily TSS values over 42 days. [Previous day CTL+(Current day TSS-Previous day CTL)/42]

TSB is the Training Stress Balance, the difference between ATL and CTL.

All this is detailed in "Training and Racing with a Power Meter' by Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan. It's far more detailed than I would ever need but there's a subset of information which is valuable.

For example take the intensity factor, or how hard you worked out, an objective indicator over a subjective 'feeling.' Since it is a ratio of NP (objective) to FTP if you exceed 1.0 regularly you have improved and should reassess your current FTP. This is much more valuable than AHR alone. I've had days in which I performed the same workout but the AHR varied by 8 beats. Some time ago I found a formula for calories expended on a workout. It was based on AHR, weight and time of workout.

Kcal=(955.0969+(.6309*AHR*)+(0.1988*(WTkilo)+(.207*AGEyr))/4.184Tmin

Perceived effort could be way off if you had a big gulp Pepsi right before working out or took a Sudafed. The power meter tells you how many calories (or kilojoules) were expended irrespective of AHR.

Why CTL and ATL? They differentiate recent activity compared to long term activity. Why is it useful? If you're working harder and harder the TSB (Training Stress Balance) goes significantly negative indicating you may be overdoing it and could injure yourself and you need rest to recuperate. Over time you will learn to track the number and see when you're getting into a danger zone. Keep in mind the actual number isn't as important as the trend. Conversely if the TSB goes positive you're recuperating. As indicated in the book most do their best when they go positive for a while right before a race.

I can deduce from my chart the increasing TSB suggests I could work out a bit harder. However staying negative indefinitely I can still run into trouble because I don't rest enough; maybe becoming more susceptible to a cold or flu. For my own goal I shoot for 22 miles (to protect my knees) and gradually increase my cadence shooting to top TSS of 80 each day. I have a chart tracking my AHR over time and it shows in the past six months my AHR has decreased by 4 beats while gradually increasing my TSS. Simply stated this is an objective indication I'm getting better.

Hope this helps.

Rich
__________________
..life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes. ― Andy Rooney ...enjoy what's left!

Last edited by Rich Gibson; 10-08-15 at 06:53 PM.
Rich Gibson is offline  
Old 10-14-15, 05:09 PM
  #13  
bakes1
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 1,248

Bikes: 1975 Motobecane Le Champion lilac, 2015 Specialized Secteur Elite

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
And some spend a thousand on wheels to save a few tens of grams which is negated if they don't take a dump before riding.

Just say in...

Rich
For sure and I apologize as I didn't mean to sound as rough as I did.
I at first read it as almost an advertisement for other peeps to go out and get one.
bakes1 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
fusero
Classic & Vintage
14
04-03-17 07:06 PM
daf1009
Classic and Vintage Sales
28
12-25-16 05:04 PM
Simko
Bicycle Mechanics
7
06-11-05 09:37 AM
MattC
Mountain Biking
3
03-17-03 12:15 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.