ErichVonCartman

At the end of the day, you only have yourself to trust.

From my personal experience, those reviews are great for me! Thanks to the Reviews, I have been happy with almost all my purchases. I have bought hundreds and hundreds of stuff of all goods. Also, easy return policy with Amazon Prime also makes it a no hassle proposition.

I will stick to Amazon Reviews. You can stick to your Magic.

StanSeven

To me life's much too valuable to waste spending time overanalzying and researching. I go with what experts and trusted sources of information say on my purchases.

ErichVonCartman

So you believe in Magic and Elves? Who are these Experts? I have not found a better Expert than me at giving an honest in depth review.

Biker395 

The analysis is part of the fun!

There are good reasons my wife refers to me as Mr. "Paralysis by analysis." lol

StanSeven

There are lots of excellent reviews from magazines and trade sources where there's no bias. Velonews and GCN are two examples for cycling. I also ask owners what their experiences are. I know and trust several LBS employees - several are foreign European racers and former team mechanics. They give really good feedback on products on both what their store sells as well as other stores.

Let me ask a personal question - why do you post insulting comments when people don't agree with what you say?

ErichVonCartman

Insulting comments? I was just wondering how you determine someone is an "Expert"? Does he wear a Magic Hat that says "Expert" on it? or do you have "Expert" vision Goggles and you can see them?

I don't see CGN or Velonews reviewing small stuff like master links, crank bolts or no name $20 winter gloves. I only see them reviewing $10,000 bicycles or $600 Cranksets. Even if they review inexpensive part, that part will be from some Mega-Giant like Shimano. CGN and Velonews REVIEW FOR INCOME.

You seem to put faith in these "Experts". You seem to trust these "Experts" even though they never give bad reviews. Meanwhile on Amazon, you see bad reviews everywhere. CGN and Velonews will never give a truly bad review unless they paid for the product themselves. CGN and VeloNews will never honestly review a Chinese Open Mold Carbon Frame from a Chinese Distributor. This is because They REVIEW FOR INCOME.

Here is how I see it.

1) I have bought hundreds and hundreds of products on Amazon, and almost all of my Amazon purchases were good purchases, and this is because my purchases are made based on the Amazon Reviews.

2) I hear of people being paid off to give good reviews on Amazon, all I know is I do NOT know anyone personally that have ever been offered a bribe review... and this over thousands of purchases between us. If I a ever bribed, then I will call out the Retailer.

3) If you do NOT want to take the time to read the reviews, then that is on you. If you are lazy then you will have to count on Magic and your "Experts".

4) Bicycles and bicycle clothes are simple devices. I don't need an "Expert" to tell me how good gloves works or how great derailleur shifts. Instead, I will take the words of 1000 "commoners" over 1 "Expert" any day! If you don't agree with this, that is fine and I am NOT going to persuade you otherwise.

5) It is real easy to spot the ringers on Amazon, and it is easy to spot the honest Reviews. 3 and 4 star reviews tend to be more honest as they will point out both the negative and positives. However, just because a product gets 4.75 stars over 200 reviews, don't automatically discount it. I myself have found that products 4.5 or above over 100 reviews truly deserve it.

I am just being REAL here. If you are offended by anything I said, I most sincerely apologize in advance.

gregf83 

They still often provide a reasonable relative comparison between similar products.

StanSeven

That is true. In fact that's what I used for buying some off road accessories for my Jeep last week.

Biker395 

Interesting. I buy things from Amazon as well, and find the reviews useful. But for a bike? Nah.

Going back to my ski example, "expert" and "user" reviews are good just for identifying demo candidates. To really pick the right one, you have to ski them.

Honestly, I'm not sure why that is. You can take someone of the same weight and height and skiing ability, and each will choose a different ski, and swear it is easily the best of the group. Hell ... a friend and I were demoing a bunch of skis one day, and we both agreed that the 200 cm version of a particular ski skied entirely different than the 195 cm version. Figure that.

For me at least, bikes occupy that interesting region between cars and skis. You can get a good idea of the merits and demerits of the components you put on it from expert and non-expert reviews ... but as for riding the bike itself, other's opinions are good for identifying candidates, not for the final decision. Frankly, that's one reason I have no interest in buying a new bike. Picking the right one out is a PITA.

Kindaslow

When it comes to bikes or components, as long as the person giving the opinion is truly giving their opinion, I believe it to be valid information. I do not believe the opinion of experts on bikes any more than that of the enthusiast. The folks who have reached that expert status might not ride anything like I do, and the same could be true of the enthusiast. Yet, their thoughts can hopefully help me to narrow the field of choices. We seem to be spoiled with the riches of choices, something that we likely forget at times.

Kindaslow

One thing that never came up during this discussion, well not to any depth, is components. For example, the difference in price between Ultegra and Dura Ace is pretty steep, yet the performance difference is very small, and the Ultegra might be more durable. In the MTB world, it is a little different. XTR brakes really are worth every penny via their performance is that good. But, few if any could tell XTR cranks from XT cranks. And, XTR shifting is nicer than XT shifting, and people can then battle between want and need with the shifting. I do not know the Campy line well enough to make comparisons, heck I might not have even abbreviated it correctly.

So, what about components, price versus value and us old guys who have enough spare change that the extra cost is not the limiting factor (but, instead, our habits or thoughts are the limiting factor).

chasm54

Bikes are like lovers. It's a mistake to think that there is only one that is right for you.

Biker395 

I like the way you think.

TriDanny47

I know I was intrigued enough by the reverence Campagnolo is shown in road bike circles to make my 2nd serious road bike Super Record EPS. I just got it so have not been on it yet except for a brief test ride at the shop at pickup then another when I got it home - nor do I intend to until spring - I was told quite seriously by more than one person NOT to expose it to road salt - and it looks like our stretch of no snow/no ice is going to end. I'm not too keen on riding any bike with narrow slick tires any time I could encounter ice anyway - happy to ride my hybrid and fat bike until April.

In the meantime - it can function as artwork!

StanSeven

Agree. Pretty much all the bikes I've bought in the past several years resulted that way - reading reviews and talking with people to narrow down the pool. Then I did extensive test rides. When I bought by Ti bike, I wasn't even sure of the material I wanted. I did lots of rides and even used trips to other cities when away for some rides. The dealer I ended up with told me to keep the demo over a three day holiday weekend just to be certain it's shar I wanted.

StanSeven

It sounds like your advice on not riding the bike is from people with OCD. If road salt caused damage, bikes wouldn't last. By the time it really caused parts to wear out, assuming you take reasonable care, you'll be 30 years older.

gregf83 

It's made mostly from aluminum and carbon fiber not sugar. Wash off the bike and it will be as good as new.

PhotoJoe 

MOD NOTE: Nobody ever said anybody relies on "Magic and Elves". Comments like this are insulting and do nothing to contribute to a civil conversation. Please refrain or leave the thread.

ErichVonCartman

For me, buying my last 8 bicycles been "blind faith" based on reviews of others.

I never got to Demo any of my last 8 bikes before the purchase (other than a parking lot ride).

We can't really trust feedback from owners of high end bikes either because tt seems at least 90% of all high end purchases, the owner tends to be extremely bias and love their bikes and the decision they made. This seems to be true even with me, as it seems whatever choices I make, I tend to love the bike and keep it. Even if I do sell one of my purchases, it is only because the bike is NOT being used as often as they should (Like my GT DHi Downhill Bike and My Litespeed Tuscany Road Bike)

Skis and Snowboards are cool in that you can demo like 5 boards a day. Even cars and Motorcycles you can get an idea how they ride on a simple test ride. Not so with bikes, with bikes it takes time to really know the bike, like a test ride of at least a week or more under various conditions. There are places very close to me that rents High End Road Bikes between $50-$200 a day (depending on the bike). However, how many of us are willing to take the time and money to rent, and/or demo, and/or buy different bikes just so we can test different bikes? I say almost NONE of us are. So the only thing left really is to take inputs of others.

I will say again, I tend to be happy with all my Bike Purchases, even though have never Demo'd any of them before purchases. All I do is read and read Reviews, and get and get feedback from others.

I can go on and on about bikes, various parts, material, brands, etc, etc, but I won't do that here as I probably written too much already. I will just say this for now... that Carbon is the only frame material I ever intend on buying for all my future purchases.

OldsCOOL

I have never demo'd a bike. Of all the classic racers I have owned I have trusted those that have owned and raced them. Face it, we are all biased to some extent. If I didnt like my Colnago or Trek 760, why keep it? When choosing the Cannondale Criterium I bucked against the opinions of those that said it would rattle my fillings out, give me a numb butt and freeze my hands with road buzz. Shoot, that is EXACTLY what I wanted in a criterium bike. Fast and brutal. I love it. Just what I was looking for in a fast roadie.

ErichVonCartman

My apologies, just know that I also speak this way in real life.

I read it back to myself and I do admit, it sounded a bit harsh if you read it, but just know I believe if I spoke those same words to you (and not wrote), you will know I had no malicious intent.

If you allow me to explain... what I meant was these so called Experts do not have any Magic where they can better analyze a pair of gloves better than me. They are NOT elves, they are Mortal Men just like me and you. It is my belief that putting your faith on purchases in 1 or 2 "Experts" Hands is really risking it. I myself think it is better to get a bigger sample size, get the opinions of 100 real world users, than to get the opinion of 1 Expert.

Kindaslow

There is nothing wrong with being biased, we should love our bikes. Like you said, "why keep it" if we didn't!

People think I am crazy for riding and loving my SS fully rigid MTB. Luckily, they can choose something else.

Is it being biased if we are expressing how we actually feel about a bike? The folks I do not trust are the folks who believe their new bike is the best bike ever, until they sell it and the new bike is the best bike ever, and....

ErichVonCartman

I see it the same as both of you, we all should love our bikes. But when I give my opinion about my bike, I try to be honest and give a real opinion about it...
"I love it, but I have not really tried others to compare... Then again I have no need to try others as I can't see them being much better, and I love this nice so much!"

Kindaslow

And, this circles back in some ways to the OP. If a person spends what is necessary to truly love their bikes, and that amount will vary, then it is feasible that spending more money on one bike, or a few bikes can make a lot of financial sense. It would take something that does not currently exist to get me interested beyond my Epic. And, that is saving me money.

ErichVonCartman

Truth! Spend whatever you need to spend to be happy. For my budget, I am happy with my purchases. However, if I had a bigger budget I most definitely would get the real bling stuff, like Enve wheels, and multiple Enve wheelsets at that.

I enjoy the artistic side of the bikes, and some of the really expensive stuff such as Enves are not just about performance, to me they are also art! Also, I enjoy working on the bikes. I actually don't mind when something breaks on a bike, gives me a chance to work on them. I am one of the few people that get almost as much enjoyment working on the bikes as I do riding them.