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Several friends have crashed

Old 12-25-15, 03:49 PM
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BikeArkansas
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Several friends have crashed

Due to a very heavy work schedule I have been off the bike for about 7 weeks. During that time I have gotten word of several of my friends crashing. Most of the crashes have been in pace lines, but one a few days ago was a dog attack which took the bike down and then bit her. Bad deal.

Anyway, I still have about 10 more days before I can get back to normal riding but the rash of crashes involving friends has shaken my nerves a bit. These are good riders with lots of experience. There have been several broken bones and hospital stays. My thoughts are turning to more emphasis on solo riding. That would not help on the dog attack situation, but I had two crashes last year in pace lines, so maybe it is time to stay away from the crowd.
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Old 12-25-15, 04:46 PM
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I share your concerns about pacelines. Often I will hang off the back unless the pace is so high I really NEED to be in amongst them to keep up, rarely the case. I am elderly, my reflexes are diminishing and it's unpleasant to have to concentrate so hard for an extended period. As is true with everyone here, I'm not being paid to ride. You don't have to ride solo to avoid paceline incidents.
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Old 12-25-15, 04:57 PM
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Dont be rattled. You are not them and that doesnt have to happen to you. Yes, scale back on pacelines except for special rides. The more you jam together the more that will go wrong even when you had nothing to do with it.
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Old 12-25-15, 05:07 PM
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Years age (actually decades ago) I used to ride a fast pickup ride in Westchester on Sunday mornings. The ride is a tradition and has been going for over 50 years, but I gave it up because the group started getting to dangerous.

They ride using race tactics like tight pacelines on open roads with cross traffic, and sure enough accidents became more common than rare. IMO pacelines should be relegated to closed circuits, or open country roads, and then only with disciplined riders.

Of course this won't stop anybody, so I advise being aware of your position, traffic, and escape routes at all times. If you maintain personal discipline, you can stay safer even in what otherwise would be an unsafe paceline. Or find the right group to ride with.
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Old 12-25-15, 05:18 PM
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Nearly everything is a risk/reward tradeoff. Riding pacelines is exciting, fast, adds camaraderie, and likely pushes you to extend yourself more than you would riding solo. There are also inherent risks. Cycling itself has risks. Sitting on the sofa has risks. The key is to rationally weight the risks vs the rewards, and make your choice based on what you value.

One thing to consider is there's a fair amount of knowledge and skill associated with paceline riding - both yours and your riding partners'. The risk factor goes way up if you or your riding partners are lacking skill or knowledge.

I mostly avoid them these days. I enjoy riding solo, or group riding without drafting. If I want to use other people to motivate me, I'll either chase or try to stay out front. But that's me. Your choice is yours to make.
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Old 12-25-15, 05:40 PM
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A chase is a good way to get your speed quotient. I enjoy pulling slower riders up to a group that has dropped them. Or if a group ride has broken up, trying to bridge the gap between groups. You aren't riding alone but you aren't going to get mixed up in someone's mistake.
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Old 12-26-15, 11:18 AM
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Maybe you should stay away from THAT crowd until they figure out why they're crashing.
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Old 12-26-15, 12:50 PM
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^^^ what B.P. said.
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Old 12-26-15, 03:51 PM
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I don't draft, and I don't do pacelines. I ride solo or in a small, non-aggressive, safety-minded group.

I am far more interested in how fast I can climb a hill than in how fast I can go downhill or in a paceline.
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Old 12-26-15, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
I don't draft, and I don't do pacelines. I ride solo or in a small, non-aggressive, safety-minded group.

I am far more interested in how fast I can climb a hill than in how fast I can go downhill or in a paceline.
That's me too. But I will paceline with endurance riders I know if we have a long windy pull. That's how I first met Rick@OCRR.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:33 PM
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Thanks for the heads up, and I hope your friends recover quickly. As far as the belligerent dog goes, a large sheath or pocket/folding knife can be harnessed to any of your tubes I use the Gerber Freeman Guide on the front of my head tube. If a dog attacks and appears serious, you have the advantage of being above her. Get your knife out, unclip, and drop down onto the dog and kill it. You will only get one chance, so don't forfeit your element of surprise. Your bike will get scratched, but you will be able to recoup your losses with the ensuing lawsuit. Also, getting off your bike and clocking the dog with it can be effective, especially if you wound it and chase it down with your knife. My little folding knife isn't going to scare a dog off: I should be carrying a good, 7" butcher knife. I'm taking a real chance. Black Flag Hornet & Wasp Killer is ineffective, usually, because the rider may be too nervous to get an accurate shot into the dog's eyes. Also, I can't afford to give up one of my water bottles to carry a can of that in my cage.

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Old 12-26-15, 05:38 PM
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Great idea! I heard the best way to mount the knife to the top tube for fast deployment is in the blade-up position, directed toward the cyclist for easy grasp.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
Thanks for the heads up, and I hope your friends recover quickly. As far as the belligerent dog goes, a large sheath or pocket/folding knife can be harnessed to any of your tubes I use the Gerber Freeman Guide on the front of my head tube. If a dog attacks and appears serious, you have the advantage of being above her. Get your knife out, unclip, and drop down onto the dog and kill it. You will only get one chance, so don't forfeit your element of surprise. Your bike will get scratched, but you will be able to recoup your losses with the ensuing lawsuit. Also, getting off your bike and clocking the dog with it can be effective, especially if you wound it and chase it down with your knife. My little folding knife isn't going to scare a dog off: I should be carrying a good, 7" butcher knife. I'm taking a real chance. Black Flag Hornet & Wasp Killer is ineffective, usually, because the rider may be too nervous to get an accurate shot into the dog's eyes. Also, I can't afford to give up one of my water bottles to carry a can of that in my cage.
I will bite...How many have you killed?

Did you cook and then eat them?
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Old 12-26-15, 05:41 PM
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Two and one "probable". No.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
I will bite...How many have you killed?

Did you cook and then eat them?
Careful about that biting thing, that is what got the dogs into trouble.

I have about 1 dog encounter per year, luckily I have not had to kill any yet. And, I have no idea how to cook one.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Great idea! I heard the best way to mount the knife to the top tube for fast deployment is in the blade-up position, directed toward the cyclist for easy grasp.
Just make sure it's in a scabbard and you should be fine.
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Old 12-26-15, 06:13 PM
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Just use pepper spray.

It works on everything from dogs to bears to road ragers. No one dies or is permanently damaged. All receivers of pepper spray learn a lesson they'll never forget.

Earlier this year I had to kill a dog with my little Buck 102 sheath knife but that was only because he was attacking me in my garage and was between me and my bear spray on the work bench. I screwed up and did not have one of my small sprays in my pocket. I'm sorry I had to do it but he was a large rotweiler and went for my throat. His owner was a drug dealer a couple of doors over. The incident led to his arrest and we got him out of our neighborhood. It is a good neighborhood and has been the 30 some-odd years I have lived here but this yahoo kinda snuck in by renting his recently deceased uncle's house from the family.

Even earlier I had to use pepper spray on a road rager who attacked me while I was riding. The pepper spray saved him from more serious injury. They took him away because the law was looking for him, related to earlier violence on his part.

Just use pepper spray if you must do something and if it is enough -- it usually will be.

Joe
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Old 12-26-15, 06:29 PM
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Thanks, Joe. I appreciate your cool-headedness. Sometimes, I over-react. I just hate to see people (or animals, believe it or not), being hurt.
I've seen the pepper "blaster", that shoots cartridges of the noxious fluid.
Which product do you find most accurate/manageable?
I'd like to add and emphasize to everyone to not panic if an aggressive dog comes near:
At those times, it is very easy to crash your bicycle.
Let him close on you and then prosecute.
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Old 12-26-15, 07:42 PM
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1989Pre:
Thank you. Cool headedness is hard work. We, each of us, must consider what is around us and what can go wrong; you know, -- be prepared. Not being prepared and practiced is what leads to over reaction and unreasonable fear/anger. There's nothing wrong with thinking about bad things happening and preparing for them -- it makes for a calmer, easier and happier life. At least for me it does.

Almost any of the pepper sprays will do. You can buy small dispensers (ounce or so) at places like Wal-Mart, sporting goods stores and gun shops, at least around here. There are places and even countries that don't allow pepper spray; they are wrong, it is a terrific way to avoid physical violence.

The 'dog' sprays usually contain a 1% mixture of capsicum oil; it is strong enough for most purposes. The ‘full’ strength cop & bear stuff is 10% and will stop any living thing in its tracks. I prefer 10%. I also prefer foam spray as it does not disperse in the wind and back into your face, however, one needs to aim a bit better with it. Here's an Amazon link to one example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004NKSPR8/...2HYVI7FY&psc=1

Three years ago we drove the Alcan Highway. At the border (British Columbia) the Canadian border guys took my personal pepper spray away and one of them gave me a bit a hard time about having it, especially the foam version as only the police may have that in Canada. I did not know it was illegal for civilians there or I would have left it home.

The officer who questioned me about my pepper spray was from Quebec and I don’t think he thought much of us “Gringos.” I, in a friendly way, tortured him a bit with questions about the use of pepper spray as a self-defense tool, and didn’t even Canadians sometimes have to deal with crazy people such as Quebecian separatists (to the great delight of his fellow officers standing behind him and smirking). At the end of all this I asked him which one of them was going to accompany us on to Alaska to be sure we would be okay. No answer. I love Canada and Canadians but they do drink some and drunks sometimes can use a dose of reality to get their civility back into alignment.

Joe

PS:
I've faced living things much more dangerous and determined than dogs. The sort of dangerous animals I sometimes encounter now just don't mean a thing.

Last edited by Joe Minton; 12-26-15 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 12-26-15, 07:57 PM
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Not being in the Army like my son and DIL, I can sleep where I want/when I want. Not being paid to ride, I can ride with groups or by myself.

Just have to know the people in the paceline and respect the increase in danger as the speed increases. Riding in the paceline is paramount for me at this time to help recoup more quickly the lost endurance and power since the beginning of my illness.

Good luck with whatever route you choose.
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Old 12-26-15, 09:25 PM
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A little info on the dog encounter my friend had. She is a professional rider. She was on a work-out ride solo when a dog ran out from some bushes and went into her front wheel. She had road rash and a busted helmet and while trying to determine the extent of her crash the dog came back and bit her. Not a good situation. She is OK now, but looks like she will need to take the rabies shots.
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Old 12-26-15, 09:46 PM
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You can probably figure out a way to clip a pepper spray canister to a bottle cage, using one of the velcro strap holders used for mini pumps.

I have never encountered an aggressive dog on my rides, knock on wood. I do usually carry a frame pump with the metal Campagnolo head, which could be of some use. Some of our local MUPs are getting populated with homeless encampments. Practically all of the people are harmless but . . .
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Old 12-26-15, 11:56 PM
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The problem is riding in pacelines occassionally. It's a skill that has to be periodically practiced or you get rusty. When you do join one, you can be a danger to yourself and others if you aren't up to top shape. If you do ride them, observe the riders and techniques. If they look good, join in. If they have problem riders, avoid them. It's easy to drop off send fall to the back when you see potential problems with those around you.
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Old 12-27-15, 07:42 AM
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I tried to whack an annoying dog with the rear wheel. As I swung the bike at him, my glove got caught and wrenched my little finger way off to the side. It took over a year before it was right again, though it never hurt much. I think one of those expandable batons would be fun but might take some practice.
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Old 12-27-15, 12:39 PM
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A friend of mine recently was just riding along when a dog escaped through a hole in a fence. The dog broadsided the bike and my friend slammed into the pavement, landing in the rightside edge of the roadway. Broken pelvis, some internal bleeding; 7-hour surgery and a very long recovery ahead.

My friend didn't see the dog until it was too late for him to do anything. The dog made no sound and had its tail tucked in as it sprinted toward him.

I saw his GoPro footage highlights and the pictures his friend took to document the scene.

I also saw his post-op x-rays showing the break and the hardware the surgeon put in to stabilize his pelvis. We joked that it looked like a piece of a bicycle chain and some zip-ties.
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