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What about White Bread and White sugar?

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What about White Bread and White sugar?

Old 04-14-16, 03:01 PM
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Daspydyr 
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What about White Bread and White sugar?

A few years back these were considered to be a bane on human life and health, The current thread on Arthritis got me thinking about those food products. I am 62, pretty active (@125 miles a week) and some weight lifting. Lately arthritis is gaining ground, that is a self diagnosis. If I don't take IBProfun several times a day I get sore and creaky all over.

Are bread and sugar and other products part of the problem. What dietary advise is out there to keep my system free of Arthritis and also cut back on the IBProfun?
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Old 04-14-16, 03:30 PM
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This should start you off: Gut Connection to Rheumatoid Arthritis | Brenda Watson's Community
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Old 04-14-16, 05:04 PM
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I know that when I go as low carb as possible my aching joints improve dramatically.
Something about carbs causing inflammation.
I used to know more about the science of it, but forgot.
I do remember the book that got me started me started
"Wheat Belly" by Dr. Davis.
Very persuasive stuff
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Old 04-14-16, 05:29 PM
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Sugar is sugar. Cut back on sweeteners as much as possible. More rigorous recent peer-reviewed studies indicate our main dietary enemy is sugar -- not salt, not fats, not "carbs" or "starches" or gluten or any other bugbear. Just sugar, all all its forms.

There's a lot of woo in the whole alternative medicine propaganda over the effects of wheat, gluten, yeast, etc. Check any sources carefully for credibility. Apparently gluten may affect some folks who don't suffer from celiac disease. But I'm very skeptical of most such claims.

I use a little sugar in coffee. A little honey in tea.

I'm trying to cut back everywhere else. When I bake stuff like muffins I use 1/2 to 2/3 the amount called for in the recipe. I usually buy both sweetened and unsweetened yoghurt and use half and half -- I've never been able to acquire a taste for unsweetened yoghurt or buttermilk. I have unsweetened or less sweet cereal and a banana with yoghurt (seems more digestible to me than milk, which provokes my lactose intolerance).

I've never used much salt, so there was no problem cutting back. But it turns out salt isn't as much a culprit as we were led to believe.

I don't worry about butter, animal fats, etc. I eat what I like. I use butter, olive oil for the flavor, peanut oil for cooking, and prefer chicken with the bones in and skin on -- it broils, bakes and BBQs juicier and tastier. I'm occasionally guilty of gnawing the fat from brisket, just because. My cholesterol and BP are fine.

Maybe I'm just lucky but at age 58, at 5'11" and 165 lbs, my weight is very close to the 155 lbs I weighed in my 20s when I was in peak condition for amateur boxing. Not to say I'm anywhere close to peak physical conditioning -- my upper body needs a lot of work.

For arthritis I use ibuprofen daily, usually two or three of the 200mg pills. Sometimes aspirin and caffeine -- caffeinated coffee sure seems to help along with OTC analgesics. On very rare occasions I might need a prescription pain reliever, but not nearly as often as I did years ago after a car wreck.

Lots of analgesic creams -- there are some theories these creams don't actually penetrate enough to help, but it feels better so I use 'em. When the joint pain is really bad I'll switch between cold and hot compresses, every 10-15 minutes for an hour. Seems to help.

At the moment my worst pain is the right thumb's largest joint. It seemed to start after a minor crash a couple of weeks ago. Since then I've been massaging it, using analgesic creams, etc. But I finally had to elevate the handlebar a bit to get less weight on my hands. I'll try that for a week or so and see how it goes.

I don't scoff at the concerns over diet affecting cholesterol, arthritis, blood pressure and heart disease. Many folks in my family suffered from all those ailments. But I can't see that the Conventional Wisdom in medicine over the past decades did them much good, and the CW is being re-evaluated (again, by journals of science and medicine, not "alt med" voodoo propaganda). So I'm gonna try my way for awhile and see how it goes.
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Old 04-14-16, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Daspydyr View Post
I am 62, pretty active (@125 miles a week) and some weight lifting. Lately arthritis is gaining ground, that is a self diagnosis.

I hope you are talking about the gaining ground that is self-diagnosed, and not the arthritis. There are around a hundred types of arthritis, you need to be sure which kind you have. Likely it's one of the three main types, but it pays to be sure so you can plan accordingly.

As far as diet is concerned, the best advice is this info I copied from a medical site (I forget which):

"Dietary recommendations for arthritis

General dietary recommendations for a person with arthritis include:

Eat a well-balanced diet, including fruit and vegetables, protein foods, dairy, cereals and grains. This will help to maintain general good health, and a healthy weight.
Avoid crash dieting or fasting.
Increase dietary calcium to reduce the risk of osteoporosis in later life.
Drink plenty of non-alcoholic fluids, especially water.
Keep your weight within the normal range. Excess bodyweight increases stress on joints, especially weight-bearing joints like knees and hips.
"

The case for anything specific causing or alleviating the symptoms doesn't seem to have been adequately made yet. I pay a lot of attention to this subject as I have psoriatic arthritis, and have had it for 30+ years (I'm 72). Most statements on the subject of diet and arthritis are prefaced by the weasel words "may help".

The preponderance of evidence seems to show that sugar is a very bad thing to consume, except in very small amounts. The case against white bread is less proven.

Just remember, almost everything you can read on the net is posted by either someone wanting to sell you something, or someone with a conspiracy theory. Ignore both. Including me, probably.
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Old 04-14-16, 06:04 PM
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My morning oatmeal is just a brown-sugar-delivery system for me. So far, it seems as if every single food that has been replaced by something else because "it is bad for us", has turned out to be healthier for us by far than the thing that replaced it. I've given up listening to anything other than the old basics of eating right. Except for the brown sugar in my oatmeal, that is.
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Old 04-14-16, 06:32 PM
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I just eat what sounds good at the time, with a plan to generally eat what's healthy. I was surprised at the difference, when I finally started taking a daily vitamin, in this case for men over 50. It seems to remember what I need, better than I do.
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Old 04-14-16, 06:37 PM
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proper nutrition is something most people are totally clueless about...

I adhere to an omnivore diet...a little of everything. meat, dairy, raw veggies, fruits, etc etc. try to eat organic, grass-fed, cage-free, etc. the only 'sugar' I buy is real maple syrup and local honey.

several years ago, I had some blood chemistry issues that were possibly gluten-related, so I went GF. it was a PITA for a couple of months, but once I learned the work-arounds to avoid gluten, it wasn't too bad. now I actually favor most GF products over the grain-based ones. except beer...but, I've found good whiskey is an excellent replacement.

avoid processed foods, that crap is junk and expensive.
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Old 04-14-16, 11:10 PM
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Many good comments and I appreciate the thought out input. My wife has been after me to see a doctor. I should. I guess I have not wanted to accept being over 60. Painful hands and knees are telling me to improve diet and see a doctor.

I aready lost @25 pounds, dramatically improved my HR and BP. I still need to drop 15 and slow father time.
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Old 04-15-16, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by David Bierbaum View Post
My morning oatmeal is just a brown-sugar-delivery system for me. So far, it seems as if every single food that has been replaced by something else because "it is bad for us", has turned out to be healthier for us by far than the thing that replaced it. I've given up listening to anything other than the old basics of eating right. Except for the brown sugar in my oatmeal, that is.
I like that.
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Old 04-15-16, 09:36 AM
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Best foods to halt chronic arthritis pain - NaturalNews.com
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Old 04-15-16, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
Have you tried the Candida Diet she recommends? That would be an aggressive change in our lives. My wife has more family history with Arthritis than me. It looks interesting.
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Old 04-15-16, 09:45 AM
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No, Dasp. I haven't. I've researched common candida diet regimens and I simply don't have the self-discipline to do everything exactly right for that long. That's the bad news. The good news is that even doing a little bit, dietetically, is good. I take Now Foods Candida Support, which contains many anti-fungals like pau d'arco and wormwood, as well as oregano oil and black walnut. I really feel they help my digestion and assimilation.
I've never experienced any arthritis, but have injury-induced bursitis in my right hip.
If you want to ask questions about arthritis and/or refined carbohydrates, the best forums I've found are at this site: Arthritis Prevention, Cure, Curing Protocol, Remedies, Herbs, Alternative Medicine
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Old 04-15-16, 09:52 AM
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I don't know how it affects arthritis but white bread in general is NOT good for you since it's so low in nutrition, often has a lot of sugar to mask the bitter taste of preservatives and is not much better than eating paste. I switched to all grain or multi-grain bread and cut down drastically on the amount of it I eat.

Watch the kidneys if you're eating a lot of Ibuprohen as it's very hard on the kidneys.

Cheers
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Old 04-15-16, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I don't know how it affects arthritis but white bread in general is NOT good for you since it's so low in nutrition, often has a lot of sugar to mask the bitter taste of preservatives and is not much better than eating paste.
The French bakery down the street makes the most excellent French baguette I have found outside France. Firm crispy crust with a wispy center. Good with just about everything.
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Old 04-15-16, 01:44 PM
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If you're self diagnosed and are taking ibuprofen several times a day, you need to see the doctor.
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Old 04-15-16, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
The French bakery down the street makes the most excellent French baguette I have found outside France. Firm crispy crust with a wispy center. Good with just about everything.
It's not right down the street, but I often visit an Italian bakery, as weather permits. The Italian bread is very good, but somehow I usually end up buying the pepperoni bread. It's probably not as healthy for ya, but it's so good, it's worth dying over. That and all the pastries. I used to drink way too much coffee, even before it became popular, but I hardly touch it anymore. I drink a lot of green tea, and feel better for it. I like it with or without sugar, definitely don't need it.
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Old 04-15-16, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tg16 View Post
If you're self diagnosed and are taking ibuprofen several times a day, you need to see the doctor.
You've been talking to my wife, haven't you!
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Old 04-15-16, 05:18 PM
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Are you aware of ibuprofen's side effects? See your doc. Hell, surgery is probably better than long term use of NSAIDS. At least that was my choice.
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Old 04-15-16, 06:18 PM
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^ I am. Surgery wasn't and still isn't an option. Long term, pushing 10 years now, use of diclofenac along with behavioral modification has kept me fully and out of a walker/wheelchair functional. So, while I fully endorse the go see your doc advice, I'm having difficulty seeing NSAIDS as evil.
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Old 04-15-16, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I don't know how it affects arthritis but white bread in general is NOT good for you since it's so low in nutrition, often has a lot of sugar to mask the bitter taste of preservatives and is not much better than eating paste. I switched to all grain or multi-grain bread and cut down drastically on the amount of it I eat.

Watch the kidneys if you're eating a lot of Ibuprohen as it's very hard on the kidneys.

Cheers
That's good advice, Miel. British people consider American white bread to be more of a cake than a bread. I eat an organic multi-grain, and I think I over-do it because I love bread so much, but it is much, much better for you than white bread. There is actually some white flour in all yeast-rising bread, but it is usually less than half the total of flour in the bread, and if the white flour you are using is unbleached and organic, it makes a difference. There is just a ton of junk in store-bought white bread.
The only sugar I use is about 1/16 of a teaspoon in coffee, just enough to take the edge off. I think you are on the right track, Dasp, and I commend you. Save your money and don't bother going to the doctor, though...They'll just have you on some junk that will toxify your liver.
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Old 04-15-16, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
If you want to ask questions about arthritis and/or refined carbohydrates, the best forums I've found are at this site: Arthritis Prevention, Cure, Curing Protocol, Remedies, Herbs, Alternative Medicine
Looks like all you have to do is click on their ad for curing arthritis in 21 days and that should fix everybody up. And you can cure cancer with a $2000 machine.
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Old 04-15-16, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by avidone1 View Post
I know that when I go as low carb as possible my aching joints improve dramatically.
Something about carbs causing inflammation.
I used to know more about the science of it, but forgot.
I do remember the book that got me started me started
"Wheat Belly" by Dr. Davis.
Very persuasive stuff

Yep, gluten free is getting popular for these reasons.
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Old 04-15-16, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
That's good advice, Miel. British people consider American white bread to be more of a cake than a bread. I eat an organic multi-grain, and I think I over-do it because I love bread so much, but it is much, much better for you than white bread. There is actually some white flour in all yeast-rising bread, but it is usually less than half the total of flour in the bread, and if the white flour you are using is unbleached and organic, it makes a difference. There is just a ton of junk in store-bought white bread.
The only sugar I use is about 1/16 of a teaspoon in coffee, just enough to take the edge off. I think you are on the right track, Dasp, and I commend you. Save your money and don't bother going to the doctor, though...They'll just have you on some junk that will toxify your liver.
Have you ever tried whole wheat pitas rather than a regular loaf of bread? I make most sandwiches with pitas these days. White bread also contributes to diabetes.
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Old 04-15-16, 11:59 PM
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Sugar is the new salt, which was the new trans fat which was the new regular fats, and so on. There's always the newest "real" culprit in our diets, and at this rate we'll all have to give up eating and get our nutrition via IV.

Rather than focus on the newest science, use some common sense and don't go overboard on anything, while eating a decently balanced diet. Manage your weight, stay active, and listen to your body.

There's some evidence that you can help your arthritis by combating inflammation. Some foods are rumored to help in that regard, as are vitamins like C, D & E, though they're best gotten from the diet rather than supplements.

Lastly, if you read and believe all the diet science, keep in mind that we're not all the same. Many people are sensitive to salt and it raises their blood pressure, while many don't need to restrict salt intake. That's true of just about anything, so learn YOUR issues, and adjust your diet accordingly, rather than worrying about everything.
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